dwestbury
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Posts posted by dwestbury
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In an older post (referenced below) there was a lot of talk about the different SID clone options available and the pros and cons of each.
Somewhere in that thread I put my own cards on the table and doubled-down on the ARMSID, because IMHO it provides very good sound emulation for my synths and my Commodore systems.
Well, fast-forward to today (a couple years later), and I'm still happy to say that I use the ARMSID and ARM2SID regularly.
In fact, I did a quick inventory check and realized that I've purchased about ~25 of them over the last 2 yrs, for various builds and repairs...
In that same older forum post, I made a reference to the ARMSID Shield, which is an Arduino Uno add-on, that lets you test and configure your ARMSIDs, as well as manage firmware updates and even play some SID tunes to test everything out. This shield basically lets you do everything with the ARMSID that you would have needed a C64 computer for in the past.
I thought it would be useful for anyone that is thinking about using the ARMSID / ARM2SID for their MIDIBox SID builds, to have a quick and handy reference to help them get setup.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B_xzXlLjq3NbKnOrhIoJ5PrlVIhlsD_aASEhB0CWK90/edit?usp=sharing
Questions & comments are welcomed...
Cheers
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Here's the gerbers for the MB-6582 panel set pictured in this thread...
Please credit @listen202 and @Manu29 for their efforts...
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Still some sources for 18F4685's available.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175071463256?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item28c3128758
I have spares too If you come up short (either pre-programmed or un-programmed)...
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Ich könnte auch helfen, aber ich spreche kein Deutsch und lebe in den USA.
Ich habe vorprogrammierte PIC-Chips.
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Glad to hear that was helpful... Best of luck and enjoy your synth...
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If you scan these forums you'll see a long stretch of messages from me circa 2019 when I was working on my first MB6582 and struggling to get a full set of PICs programmed.
Much like everything else in life, once I figured out what I was doing, it was actually fairly easy and straight forward to get the build / programming process to work reliably.
In the meantime I've made countless sets of PICs for my other builds and for others here on the forums, so I can attest to the process I'll link to below...
https://1drv.ms/w/s!AtmSvwylfFJaggnN1TtalEzGQK1C?e=uxNFRoI'm actually using a much faster approach now, with fewer steps, but I don't know when I'll have time to document the differences...
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The 8580 is, for all intents and purposes, exactly the same as the 6582 (9v, modern filter, stabile oscillators, etc.).
There are still plenty of 8580s up for grabs on eBay or Etsy these days, mostly from Germany, Poland or Hungary.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284485136287
https://www.ebay.com/itm/165163711893
Although, I think it's fair to say that some of modern SID Clones have become "respectably close" and "capable enough" to be taken seriously more music making.
The choice is highly personal, so no wrong answers - Just "do you"
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On 10/17/2021 at 12:39 PM, m00dawg said:
Update to the above, yep, I contacted Martin and it did indeed require using the Beta firmware. I flashed the chip, popped it in and now I have delicious stereo SID pair goodness!
Cool - glad to hear it helped - thanks for confirming...
I've edited my post above to include the beta firmware for anyone else that runs into the issue.
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@m00dawgyou might want to connect with @Martin Lukasekfrom Retrocomp.
There’s a Beta firmware for ARM2SID that contains some fixes and features for the MB-6582 (see below).
- Faster start
- Corrected FM Drums
- Faster interrupt response, when CS requests come into two sockets independently
- Auto-switch to mono mode is disabled by default (adjustable in the config tool)
You'll need a working C64 to use the above PRG file.
ARM2SIDArduinoUpdaterFirmware_312-313b1-313b3.zip
You'll need the Retrocomp Arduino shield to use the updater above (this was covered earlier in this thread).
He's very interested in feedback from the MIDIBox SID community...
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5 hours ago, jaytee said:
...The SID isn’t running DSP algorithms, but that doesn’t make it any less digital. (Arguably it’s *more* digital, as modern DSP can produce waveforms that are basically indistinguishable from analog, while the SID…doesn’t.)
All this about the SID’s analog filter having some “magic” that a DSP emulation lacks… The SID filter sucks, y’all. Especially the 6581 filter, with the wimpiest resonance I’ve ever heard in my life, but even the 8580/6582 filter is nothing amazing. It does its job but lacks any of the character people love vintage synths for—and fwiw, even those character-ful filters like the Moog ladder or TB-303 are emulated pretty nicely in DSP these days...
I think you made the point yourself. The SID isn't running a DSP, it has an actual analog filter, which for all its warts, has still enabled all those chiptune musicians of yesteryear to produce some amazing and iconic tracks.
I doubt anyone would argue with you regarding the quality of the SID's filter, relative to the higher quality and more modern options out there. Personally, I like the consistency and predictability I get by using an automation controlled filter within my DAW. It's definitely a preference thing.
Further up in this thread I did a side-by-side with the 8580, the ARMSID and the SwinSID Ultimate. IMHO, they all sounded good in isolation, but comparatively, the real SID has a bit more air and sparkle in the higher frequencies, which is part of the character I love hearing. Guessing that this could be replicated with more complex DSP programming, if it was really desired.Finally, doubling down on some of my earlier comments, I've been messing with ARMSIDs for several months now and I definitely think they're a great alternative. I'm buying them in batches these days, for retro C64 repairs and MIDIbox builds...
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@sbm looks like a firmware issue...
Is this roughly the procedure you followed?
https://1drv.ms/b/s!AtmSvwylfFJagkHu1thc87cmaTWz?e=vWlQRc -
15 hours ago, sbm said:
@dwestbury, do you have a link to a complete schematic? I'm in need of one since today I finally finished the last bits of this, but no ekyboard input and nothing on LCD. But power sound and the dancing LED matrix all work fine. Almost there.
I don't think complete schematics were ever published for the MB6582 variant of the MIDIBox SID v2, but all of the schematics for the individual modules are available here: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual.html
The MB6582 is a pretty faithfully merged combination of the original modules, so I was always able to refer to them when I ran into issues... -
I built my MB-6582 last year, so relatively recently...
In the process I pieced together a few handy references that helped me with my build...
Good luck with yours...
Planning the cost of a build, based on various component options:
PCB Sets are still available here:
https://modularaddict.com/shop-by-brand/midibox-ucapps-de
Nice pre-made Aluminum panel sets available here:
http://thebeast.co.uk/?product_cat=midibox
As a bargain basement alternative to aluminum, you could have panels fabricated as if they were PCBs, which saves a ton:
If real SIDs are too difficult to find and/or too expensive, take a look at the best clone options:
How to program your Microcontrollers:
...Or just buy some pre-programmed chips:
Where to get the "Just Right" power switch:
Which SID filter capacitors to use:
A useful voltage testing guide:
There are many power supply options available, but this one is by far the easiest:
THE definitive guide for making the control surface:
A nice little PCB that simplifies Char LCD Wiring:
A useful way to join the boards together:
Optional Encoder Backlighting:
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2 hours ago, Pedech said:
I see this is an older thread. So apologies for jumping in this late...
I just built one of these ebay's new sammichSID kits. Voltages are OK, Core MIDI loopback (shorting PIC TX&RX) is a pass.... but MIOS Studio will not find the PIC. I keep getting line after line of 'ff' in the MIOS Studio MIDI input and no lucky in it finding the PIC. Have you seen this behavior anytime when you built your kit ?
I never ran into that particular issue, but you nay want to confirm whether your MIDI Interface is on the "whitelist" of supported ones for MIOS..
http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=midi_interface_whitelist
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@Rio Given that the ARMSID is basically a STM32 MCU, I would think the filter has to be a digitally emulated with DSP algorithms.
With that said, you should be able to expect all ARMSID instances to be "digitally consistent", with no wear or degradation concerns over time.
@Martin Lukasek thoughts?
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Congrats on the progress! Exciting times ahead!
Cheers
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2 hours ago, Rio said:
... but SID isn‘t analog, only the DAC Part inside, right?
To the best of my knowledge, the only relevant analog aspect of the SID is its filter.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6581
"...Each voice may be routed into a common, digitally controlled analog 12 dB/octave multimode filter..." -
@Rio I totally agree.
it seems that Martin from Retrocomp is really looking out for Midiboxers with a solution like this.
I've just learned that there's a special ARM2SID firmware in beta testing for use with synths like the MB-6582.
Apparently it will support even faster chip addressing for performance and it completely disables the auto-dual-mono-switch, which doesn't make sense for synths which require full time stereo (e.g., dedicated left and right SID channels).
I've asked for early access to it, so I hope to find some time to test it out.
Cheers,
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On 3/30/2021 at 8:11 AM, 6040 said:
If you could take a look at this project and verify that it is really ok that would be marvelous.
Hello @6040 ... The measurements on your panel design look correct when I use the caliper in KiCAD's PCB tool, so you should be good to go.
You may also want to connect with @Manu29 since he's gone ahead and produced a panel set based on this design already.
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For anyone that's been considering the ARMSID or ARM2SID, but didn't want the headache of having to maintain a working C64 to configure them, the guys at Retrocomp have come up with a novel solution for you...
It's basically a DIY Arduino shield that enables you manage the whole configuration process through a simple terminal
Source code available here:
https://github.com/nobomi/Arduino-ARMSID-configurator
Partial kits available here:
https://retrocomp.cz/produkt?id=67
I don't know about the rest of you, but for me, the SID Clone wars are over and the clear winner is ARMSID.
1. The sound is very close to the real deal, in either 6581 and 8580 mode. IMHO, it's even better than the SwinSID Ultimate (listen to examples above in this thread)
2. The design is by far the cleanest and sleekest, all the way through to packaging, delivery, quality documentation, vendor support, etc.
3. The size and form-factor are very close to a real SID, so it will fit anywhere a SID does, unlike some of the clunkier clones
4. It's jumper-less and auto-detects the correct SID emulation mode, depending on the input voltage It receives. The mode can be overridden however, using the aforementioned config editor (imagine an 8580 in a Breadbin or a 6581 in a C64c / G).
5. The price for an ARMSID is absolutely reasonable and you can save a few $$ if you need dual SID pairs, by going with the ARM2SID
6. It provides support for analog paddles if you happen to have a real C64
And NO, I am in no way affiliated with Retrocomp or the ARMSID, but I just think these guys have done a terrific job on this... Kudos...
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On 2/13/2021 at 4:02 AM, SwampLemon said:
I apologize if this isn't the correct place to ask--but I am on the hunt for a MB-6582 for sale in the US. Please reach out if you have one available. :) Cheers
Just sent you a PM
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14 minutes ago, Jesse Dangerously said:
Thanks for showing me this! I guess I've been unrealistic about the price I was hoping to see. I have some difficult decisions ahead of me…
There are very few "kits" out there these days, because Nils & Wilba are no longer selling them.
There's one guy that occasionally has them on eBay for ~$230 USD + ~$30 shipping.
Then you need to account for the cost of SwinSIDs (the cheapest option) or another alternative, and factor in the build time (approx. 7-8 hours).
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I had a couple sammichSIDs posted in the flea market for a while.
I sold one of them, and now I have the other listed here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133688838489Quick Note: I removed the 8580R5 SIDS that I was originally selling this with, because I'm using them in my MB6582 now.
The instrument will sell with two SwinSIDs
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Congrats on building the momentum and seeing positive results... It’s an inspiring project for sure. Good luck with the remainder of your build.
Looks like you have the original (Red Color) SmashTV Base PCBs? By the time I got around to doing my builds (last year) the only boards available were from Modular Addict (in signature Black).
Cheers
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SID "Clones" List/Sources/Experiences
in MIDIbox SID
Posted
Someone on YouTube recently posted a nice and detailed side-by-side sound comparison of an 8580R5 with an ARMSID.
The ARMSID is running the latest firmware, so the tests should be accurate.