Billmac

If you want access and ability to drive the outputs from another source, you can carefully cut circuit connections to the Output Enable pins of the chips and connect them together to a logic input that lets you float the outputs and take control from another bus. This is what I did in my piano/organ to drive outputs either from MIDI data or from another set of bus drivers with keyboard contact inputs. Of course the other bus must be floated when the MIDIO128's are enabled so that bus contention cannot occur.

Thanks, everyone for your help! At last I have a perfect operation. I have narrowed the problem to loading errors using MIDI-OX to load the midio128 application program. For MIOS I am loading the .HEX program with feedback, using MIOS. Sometimes there are errors, but most of the time I get an OK on all checksums. However, I do not have the ability with my software to create a .HEX file for the midio128. I have been using the Perl script method to create a .syx file that I then upload, using MIDI-OX. The SysEx load is open loop (no feedback) so I can't tell if I have a good load. Upon speculating that I was not getting good SysEx loads, I arbitrarily changed the buffer size from 256 to 512 in the MIDI-OX SysEx configure function for setting up the load parameters. I got a perfectly operating load! I then tried shorter delay times and reloading. All I can say here is that these changes did no harm, because I could not successfully load a second PIC with a working program. Now that loading seems to be the problem, maybe it's because I'm using a USB-to-MIDI adapter? Any ideas out there, or maybe I should try to get what I need to create a .HEX file for the midio128_2_2b (that's the version I'm using, on PER S' suggestion). Is there some way that MIOS_STUDIO can be used to load a SysEx file? I am using version Beta7_5. I assume that my file must be good because it has worked once. I am happy that I can now record the music roll music as it is being played. I am nervous about not having a spare, programmed, PIC (my system uses only one). Thanks again all, for your support. Billmac

Thanks again for reply. It's been awhile, but I've been getting everything else working on my Seeburg piano/pipe organ, and it plays beautifully either from music rolls or MIDI input. However, my ability to record, i.e. output MIDI data to the PC from a music roll is still messed up. I haven't been able to get a load into my PIC18 that works for both the DIN and DOUT functions. I have tried upgrading to the latest MIOS 1.9f, MIOS STUDIO, MIDI-OX and the newest ain_midio128. I can't figure out how to configure and compile with the AIN version. There is a mention of an "example_ain_midio128" file, but I can't find it. Could you (or anyone) please point me to it. Thanks, Billmac

Thanks for the quick reply, stryd. The MIOS version I have loaded into the PIC is 1.9. This was loaded from a download that also upgraded the boot loader that came with the PIC. Since my last post I have tried combinations of versions of MIOS and Midio128 software. One of them gave me perfect encoding of all the notes from the switch contacts (operated from the music roll or the keyboard) to MIDI data out of the PIC, but the decoding from a MIDI music source to the DOUT was garbage - trying to play all notes at once. The fact the encoding was good confirms that there is a software problem and not hardware. There seems to be a compatability issue with versions of MIOS and Midio128 software. I am not into the C or assembly level aspects of the software, so I'm relying on "packaged" loads that work. What I have almost works. I downloaded the AIN....... software, but can't figure out the steps to make a loadable file from it. There's no Midio.... .ini file to go with it. I guess I'm over my head when it comes to the mechanics of compiling and creating new loadablle .hex or sysex files. Any suggestions from you or others will be appreciated. Billmac

I have a strange problem with my MIDIO128 DIN function. I'm using it with my SEEBURG piano/pipe organ conversion to MIDI. When my machine plays a music roll (Style"A), there is a group of four consecutive notes that are not properly encoded in the data coming out of my core module for recording purposes. All the other notes work just fine, and the MIDI decoding by the DOUT modules is all correct and functional. Manually inputting data to these four inputs on the DIN module always gives the same result (it's not a noise problem). I have switched chips and input connectors to the DIN module and also looked at the logic signal voltage levels going into the data pins of the register chips - they all check OK - no shorts or opens. I also tried a freshly loaded new PIC18F452 chip. Below are two listings - the first a list of the OUTPUT from MIDI-OX for several notes, starting with C5 and going to C#6. The data for the notes D#5,E5, F5, and F#5 is not encoded correctly, leaving notes turned on for long periods, depending on the music. This happens with more and more notes as some pieces of music progress. I think this problem did not exist when I used an earlier version of MIOS and MIDIO128. I have a set of 10 selections that I recorded early 2007 from a music roll, without any errors. I made sure the ...128.ini file has not been corrupted. Could there have been a new problem introduced with one of the upgrades? This problem has the "flavor" of a stack overflow problem, pointer problem, register size problem. It's interesting that it is "nibble" sized - 4 bits! Please, anyone - have you seen this problem and know the solution or have some advice. Note that the below files also show the versions of MIOS and MIDIO128 that I am using. ===> MIDI-OX Version: 7.0.0.365 ===> Log Opened: Fri 18-Jan-2008 14:00:01 ===> TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT 000BE682 1 1 90 48 7F 1 C 5 Note On 000BE6EE 1 1 90 48 00 1 C 5 Note Off 000BE7B2 1 1 90 49 7F 1 C# 5 Note On 000BE819 1 1 90 49 00 1 C# 5 Note Off 000BE8D1 1 1 90 4A 7F 1 D 5 Note On 000BE930 1 1 90 4A 00 1 D 5 Note Off 000BE9F0 1 1 80 10 00 1 E 0 Note Off 000BEA2E 1 1 90 4E 7F 1 F# 5 Note On 000BEB0E 1 1 90 72 00 1 F# 8 Note Off 000BEB76 1 1 80 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off 000BEC3D 1 1 80 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off 000BEC82 1 1 80 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off 000BED6B 1 1 80 00 00 1 C -1 Note Off 000BED9A 1 1 80 4E 00 1 F# 5 Note Off 000BEE7F 1 1 90 4F 7F 1 G 5 Note On 000BEEC8 1 1 90 4F 00 1 G 5 Note Off 000BEF9C 1 1 90 50 7F 1 G# 5 Note On 000BEFE0 1 1 90 50 00 1 G# 5 Note Off 000BF0BA 1 1 90 51 7F 1 A 5 Note On 000BF103 1 1 90 51 00 1 A 5 Note Off 000BF23F 1 1 90 52 7F 1 Bb 5 Note On 000BF279 1 1 90 52 00 1 Bb 5 Note Off 000BF380 1 1 90 53 7F 1 B 5 Note On 000BF3DA 1 1 90 53 00 1 B 5 Note Off 000BF495 1 1 90 54 7F 1 C 6 Note On 000BF4EF 1 1 90 54 00 1 C 6 Note Off 000BF5D9 1 1 90 55 7F 1 C# 6 Note On 000BF61B 1 1 90 55 00 1 C# 6 Note Off <=== MIDI-OX Log Closed: Fri 18-Jan-2008 14:00:15 <=== ===> MIDI-OX Version: 7.0.0.365 ===> Raw Log Opened: Fri 18-Jan-2008 13:54:46 ===> 90487F 904800 90497F 904900 904A7F 904A00 801000 904E7F 907200 800000 800000 800000 800000 804E00 904F7F 904F00 90507F 905000 90517F 905100 90527F 905200 90537F 905300 90547F 905400 90557F 905500 90567F 905600 <=== MIDI-OX Log Closed: Fri 18-Jan-2008 13:55:12 <=== Below is version of MIOS MIOSStudio_beta7_2.jar Below is version of midio128. Version 2.1d Bill McKeown P.S. I am now enjoying my music machine immensely, playing it from many downloadable MIDI files, including many "A" roll arranged music - thanks to this great forum and the creation of the hardware and software by TK.

To Davidmarks Where did you locate the 1N4001's? On the magnets/solenoids? I depended on the built-in diodes of the 2308's for my piano magnets with no problem. But I don't want a problem (with the pipe magnets of my piano/pipe organ. I'm just starting with that interface. Bill McKeown

There is an adapter by M-AUDIO which provides a USB to MIDI interface. It is a cable with the adapter module built into the cable and powered by the USB port itself. It works very well and costs less than 50 dollars US, including shipping. You can find it many places on the Internet. It solved my problem of interfacing my laptop to the core units. Bill McKeown

This forum has grown so much that it's hard to find things, even with the terrific organization of the site. I am posting primarily to express my gratitude for this Forum and all that it has done to make my project a success. I reached another milestone when I was able to play (just the piano - so far) my Seeburg MO piano/organ from MIDI files and also to create MIDI files recorded from a music roll playing from its "A" roll-frame. I can also use a keyboard as a synthesizer to emulate the organ portion of my Seeburg. The interface uses Midio128 hardware and software. I bought parts from SmashTV. I designed my own system of reading the notes from the piano roll, and it works great. I designed and built my own electromagnets to interface to the piano-playing pneumatic action. Although I haven't posted many questions or replies, when I had problems or needed to learn, I searched through the Forum and found the answers I needed, almost all the time. (Many others were having some of the same problems that I encountered). I am now ready to tackle getting the pipe organ portion restored and working. :)

Just wanted to say that we are lucky that you are around to provide us "Midifiers" with good stuff that works great! I just got my Seeburg MO piano/organ playing from MIDI data and recording from music rolls, using the stuff I bought from you over a year ago. Bill McKeown

What a great discovery - this forum! And with the new topic I need to discuss. I have just reached a milestone in my project to restore and "midify" my Seeburg MO piano/organ. It is just to the point now of playing the piano from Style "A" Nickelodeon music rolls. I have a parallel data bus just waiting to be tied to a MIDI decoder output, along with a single enable line to play the piano from a MIDI source.    The piano pneumatic stack plays the piano notes by way of a set of pallet valves that replace the original primary valves. These valve/electromagnets are of my own design and contain no frictional parts. They operate from 12 volts at 150 milliamps. They are driven by a set of solenoid/relay driver chips. The input to these chips is the parallel bus.    The paper music roll is “read” by the machine’s “A” roll frame by the traditional vacuum process. However, the tracker bar tubing connects to a pneumatic/electric relay assembly that converts the pneumatic pressure signals into a contact closures. There is a full set of pouches that operate bifurcated gold wire contacts which make up to a gold wire bus that is excited with 5 Vdc. A set of cables carries these signals to a circuit board that contains a set of bus drivers whose output (when enabled) feeds the data bus playing the piano notes. With the present arrangement, the machine is ready for MIDI adaptation but will play music rolls as it did originally. Eventually the pneumatically operated contact closures will tie to a MIDI input for recording the music rolls. There is also a set of pneumatic pallet valves tied to 61 keys (this was original). These are tied in pneumatic parallel with the tracker-bar holes (through a cutout) so they will also be active as inputs to be recorded in MIDI from keyboard strokes.    The organ will eventually have a set of 61 magnetic valves to interface to MIDI or the music roll. There are 98 pipes that consist of 3 partial ranks – 24 Diapasson (C16 through B39) and 37 each Flute and Quintadena. The latter two ranks map 1/1 with each other and start at C40 through C76.    I want to get my MIDI interface working on the piano and also purchase what I will need for the organ. My plan is to first MIDI-interface the piano using one core unit. The piano plays 58 notes, so I can use a MIDIO64, and the extra outputs (8) can be used as controls for other functions, I assume, such as sustain and soft pedal, vacuum shutoff, etc. For the organ, I can also use a ’64, but it may be smart to get a ‘128 to allow for future additions to the machine. I need to know what kind of LCD display to get so my PIC’s can be preloaded with the correct boot software. I plan to use MIOS.  Does this plan make sense to some of you that have already done this?    Maybe this posting will help trigger ideas for some others working on their projects. Thanks for any comments.   Â

??? For anyone who can answer. There is a solenoid driver integrated circuit chip that has 4 or 8 outputs useful for MIDI interface to solenoids and relays. Does anyone know device number and maker? Thanks very much!