borntob4

geez, superdavies, that is tough work. Du you understand how a hammond works ? I am not shure if I do but as far as I know does each hammond of the fav models (M3, A100, B/C/RT3) has 9 keycontacts for the 9 fundamentals you are able to mix with the 9 drawbars. A midimessage for "note on" would not only have to contain the midi note (key on the keyboard) but also the mix of the drawbars. For example, the more drawbars are out the more overtones sound, meaning the more tonewheels must be switched by your µC. this sounds like a lot of work and if I were in your case I wouldnt even try. Cause if you are using the keyboard of the hammond you wont reduce weight as the keybeds of the hammonds are real heavy. I would try to build a midibox with some lighter keybeds like Fatar's TP/8O and real drawbars from your pool of parts and let some digital gadget produce the sound or use the REAL thing. Best Borntob4

Moin. Ich hab ein Schaltungsproblem, was mich davon abhält mit meiner Midibox loszulegen. Folgendes: Ich möchte 9 Potis doppelt haben, sprich 18 Potis, untereilt in 2x9. Beide 9er Gruppen sind denselben Midicontrollern zugeordnet, z.b. CC 12-20. Die beiden 9er Gruppen sollen dann über 2 Tasten auswählbar sein. Also Taste 1 wählt Potis 1-9 aus und ordnet sie CC12-20 zu, Taste 2 wählt Potis 10-18 aus und ordnet sie CC12-20 zu. So kann ich an den nicht ausgewählten Potis schrauben und sie dann später "scharf" stellen. Und wie soll ich das am besten implementieren. Danke im vorraus borntob4

Du willst das Keyboard vom LMK mit einer eigens entwickelten MIDIBox ausstatten. Klar geht das ! Problem: Du kannst nicht auf bestehende Projekte von TK zurückgreifen, da Velocity und Aftertouch nirgens implemenitiert sind. D.h. Du mußt dich in MIOS fit machen und die beiden Features selber programmieren (O.K Aftertouch ist wohl eher vernachlässigbar einfach, aber Velocity ???). Ich würde dann Deine Frage mit "zu kompliziert" beantworten. Versteh mich nicht flasch, es geht aber wenn Du ohne Vorkenntnisse an die Geschichte ran gehst könnte es was dauern bis Du wieder vernünftig klimpern kannst. Auch auf die Gefahr das ich mich wiederhole: Reparier das LMK und bau Dir ne eigenständige MIDIBox, das wird noch spannend genug. Korrigiert mich wenn ich mich irre, liebe MIDIBoxer ! Grüße aus Hamburg borntob4

Moin ! Also ich an Deiner Stelle würde folgendes machen. Ich würde das LMK ordentlich reparieren lassen (zur Not einfach Platine bei Doepfer als Ersatzteil bestellen) und Dir dann ne MIDIBox für die Controller bauen. Und wenn ich später mehr Zeit hab, kann ich Dir auch erklären warum ich das so tun würde. Gruß aus Hamburg borntob4

Sehr nett, mike&claudia. Da kann man sich ordentlich Arbeit mit dem Reicheltkatalog sparen. Werd mich bald bei euch melden. Weiter so ! Gruß borntob4

"We hope that the organ keyboard (temporary name B4M) will be available late summer 2004. In fall 2004 the control unit (temporary name B4C) will follow." I am not completely satisfied with that solution but for me it is a good compromise for on stage assumed that the keyboard has velocity. You can`t built it yourself for that price because of the waterfall keyboard's price. It liked to have one for my new band (funk soul). But I will say it again: If I would life in the US, I would try to get 2 manuals from an old hammond organ and built a B4 controller based on MIDIbox for home use only. With a nice B3ish wood cabinet, 4 drawbar sets (2 for upper, 1 lower, 1 pedal), a real half moon Leslie switch and maybe a pull out drawer for all other controllers that I don't need so often. Not to forget the bass pedal in order to learn jazz organ. But we all need dreams ! ;) best andreas

I think I will dump all my projects concerning a B4-controller because of that: http://www.doepfer.de/B4.htm We'll see. I would have liked to built it on my own, but the prices are pretty cheap. Best andreas

Take a look at this awesome project. Great work ! http://www.smctek.com/B2MIDIControllerProject.html :P I would like to built something like that, too ! Best andreas

" Question to anyone how wants to answer: In reading different threads on all subjects, I read about presets. I don't know anything about Hammond organs or B4, etc. So what are presets and how does this apply to the organ? Thanks, Johnc" To start with, the Hammond Organ was invented by Laurens Hammond as a substitution for church organs. The drawbars were named after the length of the pipes (16' 5 1/3', 8', 4',2 2/3', 2', 1 3/5', 1 1/3' and 1'). So 9 drawbars were used. You could vary the loudness of the tone (for example the fundamental 8' ) by changing the position of the drawbar (9 positions: 0ff, one to eight). You had 2 sets of drawbars for each manual. And here come the Preset keys: The big hammond console organ with 61 note keyboards (B3, RT3, C3, A100 and similiar) had a special octave of keys. This octave has reverse colored keys in order to make it more visuable. With the b and the a# of the preset octave keys the player switched between the 2 drawbar sets. With the rest of the preset octave you can choose a "Preset". A Preset is a hardwired sound setting in opposite to a set of 9 drawbars. Instead of being connected via the drawbar the Preset keys are directly connected to the tone generator of the organ (setting tone pitch and loundnessof the tone). All Preset were the same at a stock hammond. If you want to vary the Presets you have to rewire 9 cables (using a soldering iron). The B4 is a software program emulating a B3 hammond organ. I hope I made myself clear. If not, feel free to ask. andreas

"The switched resistor scheme above would require cutting the bus at each drawbar and connecting a resistor array at each drawbar. " No, you don't have to. You 're referring to the schematic I've send to you, right ? You need only 8 resistors for one drawbarset. The wiper is connected to the AIN-module and depending on its position a voltage level (/ a resistance value) is translated by MIOS to a digital value. It is already a kind of matrix. If you would own a big drawbarset with the 4x9 drawbars plus 2 drawbars for the pedals and assuming that there are only 9 long busbars you would only need 8 resistors to controll all 38 drawbars. Did I make myself clear ? I bigger schematic would help, but I don't know if I find some time. Bye the way, making it digital with a matrix would be cool, but in my opinion, it's allready done. Best andreas

I really like it the way clavia did it with the nord. This kind of display seems to be very obvious and eays to handle. It like the "displaying device" to big. A small LCD or the 10x25mm LEDs are too small for me. 7X60mm might be enough. Honestly speaken, I don't know what to do now as I know that displaying drawbar settings after a preset change is not possible. The LEDs are a desireable thing to have. It have to think about it all. Best andreas

@Hermes: "Thus I think that a full B4 control device is possible with only one core!! " Yep, needs some coding though. You have to add 64 analog inputs to MIDIO128. @Hermes: "I think you don' t need 58 digital inputs. If you look at the B4 midi implementaion chart (if one does not have it I ll be glad to send it via e-mail), only 6 of the controls require a "push button". That's true aswell. But there is one problem: chorus vibrato selector in the keyboard view. This switch is not listed in the midi implementaion chart. But it could be recoded using an analog 6 position switch and defining the two midicontroller (vibrato mix and depth) to each position. But this switch must be hooked to 6 digital inputs on order to add this "second output" (2nd midicontroller). For example C1 woul be 64 (mix) and 32 (depth), V3 would be 127 (mix) and 96 (depth). I would like to have this switch (and I think oldmacman aswell) to be as close B3 as it's possible to be. Coding will be needed aswell. @LEDs: I think I have bad news. I don't think that Hermes is describing a problem, but I didn't check it though. But what I found out is that B4 doesn't send controller data when a preset key is pressed. It only sends program change. And therefore it is not possible to indicate a drawbar setting called by preset changes. :'( And without this: I don't need LEDs. If the LEDs are only able to indicate the real drawbar setting (which I see anyway on my organ) I don't think why we should keep them. Disappointed I' m going to bed and whimper for a little while ;) andreas

Dimitirs' suggestion is good and easy to do. If the length of the cable from core to bass pedal dosn't get too long (sub-d-25 pins cable could be used) it might work out. If it doesn't, never mind. It wouldn't kill your budget to use 3 core for the project (one additional for the pedal bass). But we don't need to work further on because (as far as I understood the MB64) everything is already prepared and has only to be configured with "serge's editor". Same with MIDIO128 for all of us who like to have keyboards. Only the LED-thing has to be coded. >:( Best andreas

@Jim:"How about this idea? As Dimitris suggests, all B4 controls, other than manual keyboard scanning and LED drawbar indicators are handled in the first core. There should be enough digital inputs left (Dimitris, is this correct?) in MB64 to encode the 25 pedals." Nope, that doesn't work out. We need 58 switches for the console keys including presets. MB64 supports only 64 switches. But we need 83 for adding pedal switches to the function switches. But we could use analog inputs for Bank Select and Precussion Harmonic Select (e.g. analog pot. rather than switch input). That would save 19 switches and it would work. " Andreas, at current exchange rates, Petkov's PCB costs $190 US plus shipping. I'll stick with SmashTV's prices and far cheaper shipping... Also, I think with all of us working together, we'll get a better product. " I fully agree with you. While working all togeher we can develop a more powerful circuit than JDPedkov's. Later more from me andreas

Now the discussion is going on. Let me see. First of all. @Jim: "As far as I know, B4 does not report back to the controller the position of the drawbars for their internal presets." Fortunately you're wrong. As I know from the Keyboards forum (german keyboards magazine) and just tested myself (I hooked the B4 to a MIDI monitor of my MIDITEMP PM-88E (a midimerger and midimatrix)) the B4 reports every MIDI-event to the MIDI-Out of your soundcard (which can be connected to the In-Port of the Core) and therefore it is possible to let N.I. B4 controll the LEDs. @Dimitris: With your MB64 beeing ready you might be done. All you wanted were those drawbars, switches and pots. You only have to configure your box and your done. Or am I wrong. Flash the MB64 software to your core and link the events to your input devices with serge's editor and go B4ing. @oldmacman: first of all welcome to the project. Your right, it's only an organ, but I made some expierence with a Hammond XB-2 (digital clone) in a rock cover band. In a band you often have thousands of sounds that are linked to special songs or even certain parts of songs. Using the presets gives you no controll of your settings (no display except the screen). the XB-2 had a small display indicating your drawbar settings after using a preset key. that was crappy, because it was a little bit tiney and you had no idea if you have choosen the right presets. With LEDs indicating your settings you "see what you're getting/hearing". If I wouldn't need the LEDs - to be honest- I think I would go and buy JD Pedkov's circuit: http://www.geocities.com/JDPetkov/Hardware/B4ce/B4ce.htm That would save time (=money) (I know you guys living in the U.S. wouldn't think of it because of the shipping costs). @all: I think the project should be organized this way: Core 1: handling the upper manual and everything else besides lower manual and pedal clavier That makes 119 switches, 25 analog inputs (db and swell pedal) and 21 digital inputs (question is still: do we need encoders. I'm not shure. Maybe pots are enough. Using pots would simplify the amplication, I would say.) Plus the LED (in my opinion/case). As I mentioned before we just talking about all the things to add for programming. Oldmacman, in case you don't like the LEDs (it's also a matter of money, LEDs are expensive and I have no idea how to integrate them to the cabinet) leave them and the DOUT-PCBs out. And one core is able to do it (see MIOS specs). Core 2: based on MIDIO128 handling lower manual and pedal board It's getting late. Hope to read from you soon. Best andreas