How to make Meta Events do Octave Up/Down & Toggle 1 Octave

[Bassman]

Ok I'm very new, but I think I have got the basics to make a midi Organ bass pedal controller using MB64. It's only 13 notes and I would use 10 or 13 Program change buttons with LEDs (how many does bass need anyway?) and a volume control.

Ok, a CORE, a DIN, a DOUT and a LCD should do it fine. I can upload the ready made MB64 firmware and make changes from there with the built in menu system.

I don't see any Meta Event that can perform any of the following; Octave Up/Down, Octave Toggle (by 1 octave) and making a pot adjust the velocity for expression.

If I'm wrong with my basic understanding, please let me know.

Does anyone know how a newbie could figure out what to change to make the Meta Events peform these functions?

Conceptually, I suppose variable to remember the octave, to which 12 would be added or subtracted, but then the midi note on/off routine would have to pick this up and add it to the event. Same would apply for the velocity.

I know I will have to learn to be able to actually program this, but am I on the right track in principle?

thanks

Keith

[TK.]

Hi Keith,

the usage of Meta Events isn't the right approach here, for your plans it's better to write a dedicated application based on the C wrapper. Many people already did this in the past, some of them introduced their project in the forum (unfortunately there is no complete list of projects, so you need to use the search function)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Bassman]

Thanks Thorsten,

I have read lots, so I guess I'm in for a lengthy stay, lots to learn. Is there somewhere where I can get the PIC assembler instruction set?

Keith

[seppoman]

yes, visit microchip.com and download the datasheet :)

S

[Bassman]

Thanks Seppoman,

That looks a lot easier than C. At least I can understand it!

I wonder why the MB64 or MIOS has no transpose facility written in? Maybe everyone is more into being a knob and button twiddler than play a keyboard?

Just teasing, don't get you're faders in a twist!  :P

thanks again.

Keith

[Bassman]

Of course I could just cheat and make a few button that send full up/down or centre pitch bend messages and program all my synth sounds to bend by 12 notes instead of the more normal 2?

That will be possible within MB64 as it is?

Keith

[seppoman]

I wonder why the MB64 or MIOS has no transpose facility written in? Maybe everyone is more into being a knob and button twiddler than play a keyboard?

That's because MB64 is a controller (i.e. twiddler box) and not a synth or midi processor. MB 64 is not meant to get note information fed through it, and there's no universal "Transpose" command you could send from the MB64 towards a synth, so there's no way to "control" the transpose externally, you can only process midi notes to be transposed, and that's not MB64's purpose. The Pitch Bend trick would work but isn't the most elegant solution.

S

[Bassman]

Yes, but as a controller, tranposing the notes, at least, would be a normal part of it? This is nothing to do with having information fed though it. Granted, it's not much use for knobs and faders, (unless you have 12 buttons and want to shift them all up/down by 12), but a small midi keyboard would benefit from such a function.

Actually, using pitchbend to transpose, has one advantage. One can 'toggle' up/down an octave easily, and/or get a 2 octave range with 2 or 3 buttons (down 12 notes, center normal & up 12 notes). But the best advantage is that you can transopse whilst still playing a note. Software alterations would not make any difference until the next played note.

Not elegant, as you say, but still a useful method.

Keith

[seppoman]

Yes, but as a controller, tranposing the notes, at least, would be a normal part of it? This is nothing to do with having information fed though it.

Oh yes it does. the MB64 is a controller in the sense of "knob box", i.e. a device that sends out control data to control something else (software/synth...). There is no standard transpose command in the midi standard - if you usually want to control one certain synth, you can check if it has a proprietary transpose command. The MB64 does neither generate actual midi note information nor does it usually process any note information (which would need to be fed through it for processing). So transposing is definitely no "normal part" of what MB64 (or in fact any similar controller) could do.

I'm not sure I understand what exactly you want to do/build? If you mean "Controller" in the sense of you want to midify some existing pedal board to become something like a M-Audio Oxygen, MB64 is the wrong approach - take a look at MIDIO128 and the Midification board instead.

S

[Bassman]

Hi seppoman,

I do take your point about it being called 'midibox' for the fact that most people may use it for the purposes described. However, I think you are quite wrong on this point.

The MB64 does neither generate actual midi note information nor does it usually process any note information (which would need to be fed through it for processing). So transposing is definitely no "normal part" of what MB64 (or in fact any similar controller) could do.

Just look in the Midibox64 Editor, at the buttons page, you can choose note on, and the application will deal with the note off too. Thorsten clearly mentions it as a Feature.

"Features

up to 64 Pots or Faders, dynamic priorities: latency < 1 ms! :-)

up to 64 Push-Buttons

up to 64 LEDs

one internal bank

+16 external banks with every BankStick

sends CC/Note/Aftertouch/PitchBender/ProgramChange".

So it can be used as a keyboard encoder, plus, many organ midi-fiers (is that a word?) use note on data to operate stops and so on. It also sends Pitch bend & Aftertouch, clearly both keyboard designed facilities.

Maybe I'm missing something here, the MIDIO128 was designed to receive midi input and translate this into physical switches or voltages. Quite the reverse of pressing a button and sending midi data out, i.e. MB64.

I don't really get your point, am I totally wrong about the MB64, I can read ok, and understand some of the assembler in the application, most of it deals with sending midi data derived from knobs and buttons, or keys (they're just switches).

Sorry, seppoman, if I sound argumentative, I'm not trying to be, just trying to make sure I don't get it all wrong.

Keith

[nILS]

Let's put it this way - just because a car has an engine it's not a mixer. The mb64 sends NoteOn/Off events, it may still not quite be what you need ;-)

My 2 cents:

a) Since I didn't really get to understand what excatly you want your box to do - would you mind telling us? Not just the transposing part - the whole box

b) Get the C skeleton and start writing some code to get some LEDs blinking, display something on the screen and send some MIDI - that's easiest way to get into programming

[Bassman]

Oh, sorry, I thought I mentioned.

I just want to turn an Organ bass pedals (foot keyboard) into a midi controller using MB64. It's only 13 keyboard notes and I would add 10 to 13 Program change buttons with LEDs and a volume control.

I'd like an octave up/down button (I know there's no midi command for this) but I can do this with pitch bend on a button (crude, but it works), and a note velocity adjustment pot (again I can find a suitable controller for the synth's filter instead).

I don't really see why the MB64 application can't do this very simple task.

I am taking your advice on just trying stuff out, well, I will as soon as my core, din, dout & LCD arrive.

Keith

[seppoman]

well to be more precise, MB64 can generate Note On/Off signals but that's mostly meant for things like the stop control you've mentioned. I'm not saying you can't use it for sending notes, just this isn't the standard application of MB64 in any way, so don't expect any master keyboard features from it. Take a look at the Midibox gallery, section "MB64 based projects" and you will see there isn't any box featuring a keyboard :) MIDIO128 is the application people normally are using for midification tasks like what you want to do. It features 1:1 or martix scanning of up to 128 keys. I never looked very deeply into MIDIO128 myself but I think it also doesn't feature too much master keyboard stuff, so maybe for "only" 13 keys the MB64 approach wouldn't be too wrong for your purpose, just don't expect it to suit perfectly without your own program modifications.

S

[Bassman]

Hi seppoman,

You're probably right, but on the good side, as soon as my core, DIN, DOUT & LCD arrive, and are assembled & tested, If the MB64 isn't the right thing, I can always dump the midio128 in there instead! Plus I will have learned a bit more in the process.

I will look closer at the MIDIO128, as you recommend, and see if it does seem better.

thanks for your patience!

Keith