FYI: MBSID CS panel ordered

[TK.]

I've ordered my MIDIbox SID panel from Schaeffer Apparatebau, so Step D should be up and running in about 2 weeks. :)

Here a snapshot:

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid/mbsid_surface4.gif

Some words to the last changes:

• I removed the LED rings due to mechanical reasons. I've experimented with several mounting techniques, but found no way for soldering the buttons, LEDs and encoders to the same board. A solution would be the use of other buttons, but the C64 case is too small... therefore I will use two boards: one for the encoders, another for the buttons and LEDs, which is on the top of the encoder board (double-decker). Disadvantage: so there won't be enough place for the LED rings. However, the LCD will display the values anyhow when a select button of a section is pressed (e.g the OSC or Ctrl button), and since most people don't plan to build LED rings, too, it's maybe better when I focus upon the handling without the rings.
  
• of course, the firmware will support LED rings for people who plan to design another layout with more relaxed constraints (bigger)
  
• The poly/mono/legato and single/unison/split buttons/LEDs have been removed, since even more modes are planned. They will be selectable in a special menu entry
  
• the 4 SIDs are now selectable seperately (see suggestion from Nebula: http://www.midibox.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1054076482;start=15#15
  
• the previous "local mode" has been replaced by the "link" and "CC" function
  
• the "link" button enables/disables the MIDI merger which forwards incoming notes to the slave SIDs. Sometimes it's advantageous to disable the link (e.G when CCs should be recorded with a sequencer) in order to avoid feedback loops if the recording software doesn't provide an intelligent routing (like Logic Audio ;-))
  
• the "CC" button enables/disables the sending of CC's on encoder moves
  
• if the "edit" function is turned on, the CS will ensure that changed sounds will not get lost when you switch to another patch. If the current patch has been changed, the CS will ask for saving
  

In the next days I will modify the current step B implementation so that the 7 control buttons (SID1-4, Link, CC and Edit) are available for people who plan to use multiple SIDs with a minimal control surface.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[d2k]

Oh my... ;D

T is back with a vengence!!!

Time to mark up that panel ;)

Nice...

Dan

[pay_c]

Welcome back TK!  8)

Coming back with a *BANG* ^^

[pilo]

just a stupid question : what back with a bang mean??!!?? (I heard it before).

And yes, TK is back with a lot of new stuff!!! :)

[pay_c]

Just what u said: Back with lotta new stuff !!  ;D

[nebula]

Hi Thorsten, thanks for accepting my suggestion on the 4 SID buttons!  I hope to be able to offer more positive contributions in the future.  This forum is just fantastic.

How much does it cost to order a one-off panel such as that from Schaeffer Apparatebau?

[chriss]

hi nebula,

just get yourself the free sofware from the schaeffer site and for example load the Mbsid v.3 (which is not recommended anymore) or draw a few circles by your own. Then go to "Preis berechnen" what means calculate price and the programm will calculate every single hole, adds everthing together (what is absolutly cool!) and stops for this panel at exactly 137,42 €.

a lot, but doing it by your own costs more (time).

chriss

[Nomical]

I don't understand.

In the alfabet b goes to c and then to d, not from b to d....

What happened to Step C of the SID interface?

That was the design where (all) functions were controlled by encoders that were placed directly under the appropiate function showing on the display, right TK?

[TK.]

Hi Nomical,

here my private schedule

Step B update: maybe in 2 days, after I've implemented two new features into MIOS (addressing up to 8 BankSticks & improved encoder driver)

Step B documentation: until friday

Step C: this weekend, after I've built the first encoder modules

Step C documentation: unsure

Step D: next weekend, after I've built the complete control surface

Step D documentation: hopefully this year ;-)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[stryd_one]

Don't forget to breathe somewhere in that busy schedule mate  ;)

[Guest Flownezz]

Kudos TK, you're amazing :).

[Nomical]

Why don't you let other people make the documentation? Saves you a lot of time, because you have a deadly busy shedule. What do you mean by documentation, more of an contruction manual or a function manual?

If i finish the one with Step C, i would be able to write such an documentation for it.

[Steven_C]

Wow! this is so cool! I only wish I had the time to make it!!! (I've still got to find time to build my tb3030 kit that I bought 2 yrs ago!! but probably quicker and easier to build SIDs though!!

and I gotta find time to make some music! Thorsten, I really don't know how you do it man! When will we see you on the front cover of Sound on Sound, or Keyboard or Mix magazines?  ;D

... Steve

[pay_c]

Hey TK, just some question about your new mounting technique you mentioned:

Does that mean that you solder the buttons and LEDs (and so on) directly on the PCB?

If so, that frontplate design cannot be changed to easily anymore, right? And you also would have to use specific buttons and encoders.

Will that board be available at Mike´s? (Guess so...)

Wouldn´t be bad if you post this PCB (also its just some prototype I guess), so we get the idea of that mounting technique.

Reason: I got the case and 2 SIDs running. Now I´m about to design my frontplate. Dont want to do all that drilling and so on if I cant mount it.

Thnx!

[smashtv]

Thorsten and the MB site did recieve a mention in the latest issue of Nuts & Volts magazine.

A cover issue would make a nice wall decoration for TK though!

Have fun!

Tim

[TK.]

Why don't you let other people make the documentation? Saves you a lot of time, because you have a deadly busy shedule. What do you mean by documentation, more of an contruction manual or a function manual?

If i finish the one with Step C, i would be able to write such an documentation for it.

I mean a manual which lists the functional possibilities and gives you the required schematics. For a complete construction manual I don't have the time anyhow. And if somebody wants to help me (for example with the MIDIbox LC construction guide), step forward! This will speed up the whole development. However, also documentations like construction reports, "walkthroughs", "HowTos", etc. by other people are very welcome!

Hey TK, just some question about your new mounting technique you mentioned:

Does that mean that you solder the buttons and LEDs (and so on) directly on the PCB?

If so, that frontplate design cannot be changed to easily anymore, right? And you also would have to use specific buttons and encoders.

Will that board be available at Mike´s? (Guess so...)

To both questions: no. Like everytime the control elements are mounted on breadboards. This is much easier and goes faster. So fast, that I've already completed most modules today! (Just to ensure that everything fits well before the frontpanel will be produced by Schaeffer Apparatebau :)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[pay_c]

Aaaaah! Totally misunderstood you, ´cuse me. Thought you were talking about ready-made PCBs.

OK, thanky for the pictures. Very interesting how you built in the encoders.  ;D

[Rowan]

Hi TK

Looks great !!

One question. Where did the Knobs come from? I'm look for some classy knobs, and yours look great.

Rowan

[ilmenator]

Thorsten,

are you a left-hander?  ;) I notice that nearly all the buttons are arranged to be on the left side of the LEDs. When designing a surface I normally try to arrange the elements in such a way that I can see status LEDs when pressing the assigned button. I'm a right-hander, so normally my buttons go the right of the LEDs...

Just something I noticed  ;)

Best, ilmenator

[TK.]

Nomical: in the meantime I've decided to integrate the encoder

functions of StepC into the "assign map" of StepD. This simplifies

the implementation and doesn't consume that much memory.

In other words: StepC will be skipped (I won't use it anyhow),

StepD will be renamed to StepC, the feature of the previous

StepC will be a subfunction of StepC sooner or later...

Pay_c: yes, it took three months until I found this very robust

solution. ;-) However, if somebody is able to find some nice

knobs for the micro buttons, he can also mount all elements

to one board. But it seems that such button caps are not

available on the free market (since they are very customer-specific)

Rowan: I got the knobs from TzanhZsu, he made a special deal

with Waldorf (the makers of the Q synth).

Thanks again to Tzz btw.!

Ilmentator: a good question! No, I'm right hander, but I think that

I'll mostly handle with the buttons with my left hand during the right

hand operates with the encoders :)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[TK.]

Update for the schedule: nearly the complete StepC surface is now working, only the modulation matrix is not ready for use as I need to mount the LEDs on the panel before I can write the driver.

I will beta-test the firmware this evening (making a new demo song) and release an hopefully bugfree version tomorrow. :)

Btw.: I also fixed some bugs of the last release:

- sometimes the Bankstick upload didn't work properly because the CS menu disturbed the transfer;

- by selecting a SID the parameters which have been changed before were overwritten

- the rotary encoder sometimes stumbled because of a too low sample frequency (3 ms instead of 1 ms)

- detented Alps STEC11B didn't work properly

- incoming CC data were not displayed

- ...

Another note: users who want to use a minimal control surface with multiple SIDs (Step B) have to add 7 additional buttons and 7 LEDs. It's not possible to select the SID(s) from the menu anymore due to a new button handling (multiple SIDs can be selected at once by holding one SID button and pushing the additional SID buttons), and it's also not possible to enable the CC, Link and Edit mode from the menu.

Be prepared! ;-)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Ian_Hurlock]

Good news for you TK. encoders arrived the other day.

They are board mountable also with nut for panel. They are very compact too, very tasty, watch your mailbox  ;)

Ian

[Ian_Hurlock]

Pilo  "Back with a bang"

This relates to making an impact on return.

Most impacts translate to a noise. ie "bang"

Bit of a euphamism really ;)

Ian

[Nomical]

Hi Thorsten,

I was looking at the pictures you posted above and i saw your solution with the breadboards for the encoder and led mounting. I was wondering how you determine the length of the leds, compared to the distance there is going to be between the breadboard and the frontpanel. Same question for the encoders vs breadboard and vs leds? And how do you get them to be even with eachother, a row of leds that is, on the topside of the leds? I hope you understand what i mean...

A question about the integration of the original SID Step C functions into the new SID Step C.

If i understand correctly, this 'CC assignment function' will be handled by a LCD-menu? Or can optionally be handled by a LCD-menu?

If so, would this allow a certain (in MIOS application) programmed function (like 'Reverb Time' or 'LFO Speed' or any function that can be controlled by CC) to be controlled by:

a) entering the desired encoder number in the LCD-menu with an encoder (or INC/DEC buttons)? :)

b) by moving/turning the encoder in order to let the MIOS application 'learn' which encoders has to be assigned to a specified function. Like the handling of the remote control function in Fruityloops. This would be a very nice feature. ;D

c) different method  ???

What are the dimensions of your frontpanel? 3U in height?

Would it be useful to try and find a analog-to-spdif conversion shematic/pcb for a spdif-out and add this to my design? Maybe the same for the audio in of the SID, with maybe even an option to chose from the menu which input to use......

Would be nice to have a digital out, maybe even digital in! Or is this already possible?

Last question.

How many SIDs do you, Thorsten, (plan to) use in your own design for the SID Step C (New)? 4?

Hope i don't give you a headache from reading.......

Thanks

[TK.]

Thats the trick behind this solution: with two boards I'm able to

adjust the distance between the encoders, the buttons and the panel

so that it will fit perfectly. With one board I wouldn't have

this possibility, thats also a reason why I got rid of this idea.

I didn't cut the legs of the LEDs, so I'm still able to adjust  

them, too.

I aggree with you, an integrated map function in the LCD menu and/or

a MIDI Learn function (like available on all PIC16F MIDIboxes btw.)

would be nice, but unfortunately I see no free memory for such

a function. The current CS implementation consumes more memory

than expected (feature overload!!!), therefore I've to be very carefull

before adding more details. Only solution would be a dedicated core

for the control surface or a second BankStick, but I'm trying to prevent

this in order to limit the complexity of the hardware (for myself

it wouldn't be a big problem, but when you read the Troubleshooting

board, you possibly understand what I mean ;-))

Current solution: there is a table which allows you to assign

the controllers. For changes you have to upload the whole

application.

My frontpanel matches with the C64 case, it's no 19" rack design.

I've no interest in adding an digital output or input, my RME

soundcard is already great - the SID delivers no digital

audio stream, the output stage and the filter are analouge. Also the

audio in is analouge.

Yes, my box is stuffed with 4 SIDs - it rocks! :)

Best Regards, Thorsten.