Make a Hardware VST Host?

[Bigstone]

Hi, I'm up to a chalange I'd think and in another forum I've allready got depressing feedback like "Give it up man!", "Not worth the hours!" and the usual "Buy a Receptor or like!"

(Yeah, sure... if I had those cash to spend I would but I don't and besides, it's much more fun to show up handmade stuff!  ;D )

Reading thru previous topics here there has been similar ideas but I can't seem to find anyone with a late date and that has acomplished the task.

My primary intention is to build a simple Hardware VST Host that will keep up for ONE single VST synth using:

An old P3 PC, aprox. 256-512Mb ram, 9Gb hd

A Creative SB card with ASIO4All or KX-Audio Prj. as driver

And bits & pieces of TK's great inventions  :) of controllers and then a 2x24 LCD..... aaand there comes the tricky part.  :-\

Sure I have to have a software VST Host that runs under the OS BUT with no need for a VGA display and that it is controlled by external thingies like simple push buttons, potentiometers or rotoswitches. The last part with the mechanicals is truly not the tricky part since Volume, Program +/-, Bank +/- etc. can be controlled via MIDI and that such are usually supported by the VST synth it self... BUT! HOW do I get to display for ex. the preset program in use, as ex. "Soft Saw Pad" or Bank number,  actual Volume status etc. on to a 2x24 line LCD?!

This has to be supported by the Soft Host I'd guess? Any work around? A VST module that "listens" to the traffic between the VST Synth and the Host and outputs it to the LPT or COM port?  By all means, controlling doesn't seem to be hard but feedback is?

One simple sollution to this is of course that I'd skip the LCD and use a LEDnumber display wich always is reseted to zero in the begining and use "dead-count" with an external counter/driver for this but... LCD would indeed make things easier.

Is there any one here that has some kind of response that can give me some hope in what I'm trying to achive than previous negative pointing thumbs I've recived in a (non hardware developing) forum?  ::)

[cimo]

maybe i am missing it but...

where is the problem? once you get the midibox setup with your host, you ll know that bank1 will control the mixer, bank2 eqs, whatsoever.Label properly the buttons/knobs and you re done

also

have you had a look at MBLC?

Simone

[Bigstone]

Well, one of the thoughts was that I could have the Preset names to showup at the LCD but then they have to be picked from the MIOS circuit and not from the VST Synth it self, right?

I such case "SawPad" at ex. Bank 1 - Prg. 23 grabbed from the preloaded info. from the MIOS ram, actually could be "White noise" at the VST Synth since I loaded another setup of presets to the VST Synth.

What I mean is that the LCD doesn't get the Preset Name info. from the VST Synth it self but from the MIOS system. Please correct me if I'm wrong here, I'm not so good at software, more of a hardware kind of man.  ;)

So if I update my VST Synth with some new presets than I would mess up the sync of the Preset Name lists between MIOS and the VST Synth. Though... I just had to update the MIOS list with a copy of the VST list  ::).... But.... would like to avoid that dubblework.

Am I'm lost?  ???  As I wrote, I'm not to good with the software skills so I might be wrong here.  :)

[cimo]

ok so check the MBLC project

[Bigstone]

I am. Really nice gears people makes out of it!  8)

But faders, knobs, switches and their functions are displayed on the LCD's via MIOS and it's LCD interface with preprogrammed messages into the MIOS software and is not geting any realtime data from the PC as I get it?! (Still reading..)  ???

[Bigstone]

Hmmm.... just got this wierd idea. Is it possible to send preset data (eg. whole preset FILE) from one of those BankStick's to the VST? Stupid idea maybe but simple anyhow. Would only work If the VST Synth is 100% midi compatible so that you could send SYSEX to set ALL parameters from MIDI.

I intend to make this a single synth but with possibilities of change from one VST Synth to another not to make this thing staticly commited to one special VST Synth only. (Should have stated this in my first note of this post, sorry.)

[cimo]

About the MBLC:

see the row of encoders (with click button eventually), their state/value is displayed in the lcds and/or ledrings (yes naming coming from the host), bank in step of 1 or 8 channels switching up and down is possible.

MANDATORY! your host has to support the Mackie Control (Logic Control) protocol

Simone

Hmmm.... just got this wierd idea. Is it possible to send preset data (eg. whole preset FILE) from one of those BankStick's to the VST? Stupid idea maybe but simple anyhow. Woulf only work If the VST Synth is 100% midi compatible so that you could send SYSEX to set ALL parameters from MIDI.

Impossible is a word we tend to forget here at ucapps, afaik there is no translation for the word impossible in the bavarian language

[Bigstone]

Ok. Mackie Control, I'd better check that out in some wiki since I'm not familiar with the terms of LogicControl. Tip on where to read about this? (or if I beg nice, give me a short breef on it?)  :-\

"(yes naming coming from the host)" you mean Cubase or such? (Soft host?)

[doc]

About the MBLC:

not the right box for him!

If I understood right, you want to control the host without VGA and keyboard & mouse.

The LC would tell you the tracknames on the display. That is right.

But how do you get the tracknames in the host. I think, that was/is your question.

With Mackie Control you can control a lot ... but not all.

The intention of this controller is partly to control the host. But not to control the PC!

I think, you'll need two controllers. One like the LC to control the host and one Controller to control the PC.

greets

Doc

[Bigstone]

  not the right box for him!

If I understood right, you want to control the host without VGA and keyboard & mouse.

The LC would tell you the tracknames on the display. That is right.

But how do you get the tracknames in the host. I think, that was/is your question.

Head on so to speak.  ;)

Perhaps I've not been specific but, yes, No mouse, keyboard or vga display just a controller board to run the Software host and the VST plugin synth.

The system it self could either autoboot a Software host (several free hosts are available, question is: is there anyone that somehow will give me the name of the sound "now playing:" (preset prg. name eg. "Warm strings" etc.)  ) and after that I could use one controller set to choose another VST plug to load instead of the current one. OR possible more easely(?) wrack a standard PC keyboard and use it's processor and make a "diode-matrixcoded-homebrewed-preselection/hardwaremacro" controller.

Make one key do the combination Alt+F4 to unload the previous Software host with it's VST plug (eg. "Close program" in Windows), and another singel key for the kombination ex. Shift+Alt+C to load a Software host with the VST plug. "Crystal".  Rather simple? In such case I will use a keyboard..sort of, combined with a small controller to send "PRG.Chng.Up" or "PRG.Chng.Down" to the VST.plug.

Still... I'd like to know what preset sound is selected on the current VST plug. at the moment.

That is not possible via the CoreModule (or MIOS as I have refered to in previous posts) as I understood... unless the Software host doesn't compare with the Mackie Control?

Going to test a Software host that converts VST Plug. DLL files to singel working EXE files. Don't remember the name of it right now, think it was SAVIHost or something like that.

[cimo]

Head on so to speak.  ;)

Perhaps I've not been specific but, yes, No mouse, keyboard or vga display just a controller board to run the Software host and the VST plugin synth.

The system it self could either autoboot a Software host (several free hosts are available, question is: is there anyone that somehow will give me the name of the sound "now playing:" (preset prg. name eg. "Warm strings" etc.)  ) and after that I could use one controller set to choose another VST plug to load instead of the current one. OR possible more easely(?) wrack a standard PC keyboard and use it's processor and make a "diode-matrixcoded-homebrewed-preselection/hardwaremacro" controller.

Make one key do the combination Alt+F4 to unload the previous Software host with it's VST plug (eg. "Close program" in Windows), and another singel key for the kombination ex. Shift+Alt+C to load a Software host with the VST plug. "Crystal".  Rather simple? In such case I will use a keyboard..sort of, combined with a small controller to send "PRG.Chng.Up" or "PRG.Chng.Down" to the VST.plug.

Still... I'd like to know what preset sound is selected on the current VST plug. at the moment.

That is not possible via the CoreModule (or MIOS as I have refered to in previous posts) as I understood... unless the Software host doesn't compare with the Mackie Control?

Going to test a Software host that converts VST Plug. DLL files to singel working EXE files. Don't remember the name of it right now, think it was SAVIHost or something like that.

then i would go with another approach to this project: i see that you yourself are not so sure about what you want.. build a basic MIDIBOX, try the LC, the 64, 64E; start fiddling around with it and you ll have an idea of what is done already and what eventually could be done to fit your needs

Simone

[/tilted/]

I wonder if it is possible to assign hotKeys in SaviHost?

I'm very interested in this.

Have a similar project on the "I'm not doing it yet but I might see about doing it later" pile!!

[Bigstone]

Well.... I do know what I want... to begin with anyway...  but my biggest problem so far is:

"How do I get the Presetnames of the VST synth to appear on the LCD?!!!!  ???

[H2O]

:D I love this kind of supposedly 'impossible' stuff!  (Yet to successfully do it myself though... ;))

I'm not familiar with MBLC, or how it's meant to interact with a PC, but it seems to me that you'd somehow need to send the name over MIDI.  If you were into programming, you could (theoretically) send the name to the CORE as a series of midi messages, and have some custom CORE program interpret it and display it.  But that sounds very messy to me.

Personally, I'd cut out the middle-man and run an LCD (possibly a second one?) direct from the PC's parallel port.  Have that one dedicated to feedback from the PC that would be too troublesome to send via midi (patch names, numbers, etc).  There's lots around the net on how to do that.  Then you could build whatever MIDIBox you want for the control surface.

I reckon your biggest challenge will be grabbing this 'name' out of the host to begin with.  That'll probably depend on how your VST host works, where it stores patch names, how it interacts with midi, etc.

Otherwise, you could always avoid the problem entirely by running a tiny LCD monitor (e.g. ~8") off VGA, I've seen some of those around for pretty cheap.

Anyway, best of luck with it!

[Sasha]

Bigstone, as you said you are not a programmer and more a hardware man like myself, I think you should really give up idea of showing patchnames on LCD. As far as I know there i no ready made solution for that. LC should be doing good job controling parameters and shoving its names, controling PC and OS should also be pretty simple. There are programs that convert MIDI messages to key strokes and even mouse movements. That is all pretty easy to do, but preset names feedback from host isn`t. I wanted to do similar thing for a long time myself but didn`t find a solution that I really like. First you need to decide which VST you like to use, as not all have same or full MIDI support. Sneakthief is using something similar. He have small barebone PC that he is using without monitor. It automatically boots Native Instruments Kontakt that i think he use for playing prepared synth/drum sequences. If you adjust the way you work live you can do something similar with good success even without showing the preset names on LCD, even without parameter feedmack and relay on what you hear from soundcard output. I would personally be very satisfied with Robert Henke`s Monodeck II concept but it is not project like MB (even it is based on it) and building details nor MAX patches are not public available, AFAIK. Maybe you could contact Sneakthief and ask him some more about his Kontakt PC and way he exactly did it.

[Bigstone]

Hmmm... ok. I'd think a "Hi there" kind of mail to Mr. Sneakthief is a good thing, I'll do that. Thank's for the tip Sahsa!  :)

The sollution is as you been planing on H2O, a simple version of a Midibox and a LCD. The printerport has been on my mind to make it simple to view wich VSTplug. is running (show active program name) but that would probably make a use of two indipended LCD's since some info comes directly from the CoreMod. ... come to think of it.. not a bad idea at all H2O.  ;)

I also have a friend in coding that likes a good challenge... hmm... I'd think I'll geting him one soon.  ;D  (Any result of that will be present here, promise.)

[Bigstone]

Just briefed my good friend in the subject.. hope to get some kind of sollution to it.

Browsing around Toybear Prod. had a quite interesting VSTplug.: http://www.tobybear.de/p_utilbag.html

Think it may come in handy in this project... also try to get in touch with Tobias Fleischer at toybear...

This shouldn't be that complicated to pull-off...  :P

[stryd_one]

Tobybear plugs are still around huh, cool :)

That's Tobybear, not toybear heheh

[Bigstone]

Ooups! Sorry! Hehe ;D

[cimo]

What about using program change and a a printed A4  paper sheet with the presets?

[Sasha]

Cimo, that is such elegant solution, mate.  ;D ;D ;D

Or, better... he could print it on label and stick it to his controller like old synths. He could add some diagrams too.  :)

[cimo]

Cimo, that is such elegant solution, mate.  Grin Grin Grin

if you think it s not elegant enough just stick it on an acrylic panel and use some colored leds...

(people love leds, leds are power!) make them blink !

[Sasha]

Blinking LEDs on acrylic would make it top elegant.  ;)

[Bigstone]

Paper version... That is good but I try to keep up the "Green thing" of "Save the forests!" like mood here!  ;D

Just kidding! Well.. that is an option, like having a paperclip to fasten a rasterpaper with diffrent patch names for diffrent VST instruments as a overlay to a patchboard with say 48 quick keys assigned to each voice for fast an accurat selection. Would work.... but I still like to have them to appear at a LCD.  :-\

[cimo]

[offtopic]

do you guys remember that system used for clocks, where plastic sheets would flip on top of each other? that would be awesome for as a visualization system for an synth

how is that called in english?