MB-SEQ V3/V4 Control Surface PCB and matching case

[Wilba]

Well... I am making mine regardless  ;D

Then I'll arrange a bulk order for PCBs. I don't know how many will eventually order, but I'm guessing a batch run of 50-100 would not be unreasonable. At those quantities, I'm sure the price of the PCB would be around US$40.

Then people can do whatever they like... order frontpanels from FPE/Schaeffer and use/make their own case, or wait for Doug's frontpanel+case bulk order. For what it's worth, I'm not waiting for Doug's silkscreened frontpanel, I'll get a frontpanel made for the "prototype" and then eventually get a case from Doug.

At the same time as the PCB bulk order, I'll keep track of people's requirements for matching parts for this PCB (e.g. switches+caps, and bicolour 3mm LEDs) because if it wasn't for the kindness of people in the States, I'd be paying ridiculous prices on shipping to Australia for these parts, so it would make sense to have bulk orders for at least these parts so everyone can benefit from the price reduction. At 50 PCBs, that's a lot of switches, caps and LEDs, and the price breaks will be very good. The 40mm datawheel knob from ALBS probably should be merged in with a bulk order for the switches+caps and LEDs.

Things are progressing slowly... I've finalized the PCB design, finalized the frontpanel design, now I'm just waiting to pull the pin and order prototypes of both and put it together, and in the meantime, work on finalizing the case design. If all goes to plan, I expect to run the PCB bulk order around October/November.

[strophlex]

I am intereseted in this and will probobly buy both pcb and case/panel.

[Wild_Weasel]

shame on me.

Just saw this topic today.

I am in for a PCB and frontpanel. 

Cheers,

Michael

[Wilba]

I can't be bothered gathering names out of this thread, so here's the bulk order wiki page:

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/wilba_mb_seq_pcb_bulk_order

This is just a "get my name down" type of thing. I'll create a separate thread in the Bulk Orders section and "announce" this bulk order more formally after I've finished the prototype, but some of you just love to put your name down on bulk order wiki pages, so I aim to please...  ;) Also, I might limit the first batch to 50 PCBs, so people following this thread now will have priority.

PCBs should be ~US$25, other parts would be approximate retail costs from Mouser/Digikey plus share of shipping costs to me, which should work out cheaper than everyone ordering direct, especially for non-U.S. residents.

As for panels, you will have two choices: wait for Doug to make some, or order them from Front Panel Express/Schaeffer.

[sineSurfer]

Hi Wilba, do you have a panel layout where you used MEC switches?, I'm trying to decide for the easier/harder route... easier (and cheaper) being your final choice with square caps ;)

thanks!

[Wilba]

Which MEC switch cap do you want to use? The round ones from the "Custom MEC Love" thread, or the rectangular "ice cubes"?

I'm assuming you mean illuminated switches and not discrete 3mm LEDs.

If I'm going to draw up what it would look like, you might as well tell me what colour switch cap, LEDs, panel and artwork you plan on using.

As I said in an earlier post, I'm not using MEC switches, the layout isn't ideally designed for them, but it should work.

[sineSurfer]

Which MEC switch cap do you want to use?

ups, "Custom MEC Love" clear caps... but hey Wilba, if you don't have a layout already done don't bother... unless you want to ;)

anyway, I did a dummy with your pdf's(approximate sizes), check the attachment

I think it can work really good, no bi-color leds though, what are those for? btw. the cap hole is 6.5 mm only, the semi transparent area there is the cap full width behind the panel

but there could be one issue: 23.2mm total height with mec switches and the clear caps (4.5mm height version of the cap), what's the total height with the x0x style switch and caps?

btw. Wilba, the encoders you are using are from your group buy, right?, could you add holes for smash's encoders or is it too late?

Thanks!

[Wilba]

This is the updated panel layout, changes:

inc/dec/utility buttons swapped with cut/copy/paste

inc/dec now are arrow icons

beat LED now 5mm

redundant "group" lines removed

changed to black background (this is a Front Panel Express panel now).

MB-SEQ_V3_snapshot_51_rect_caps.pdf

[Wilba]

Here's an "artist's impression" of how it might look with MEC switches and caps.

I like the rectangular buttons more and will continue using them.

Note there will be no problem using the MEC 1D or 1E caps, they will fit nicely with the 10mm gap, 3mm panel, but I was unable to put proper pads for the LED leads of the switch, there are holes in the PCB for the LED leads to go through, but then you'll have to solder wires between the LED lead and nearby pads. Also, 3mm bicolor LEDs should fit inside the MEC 3F switch, but you'll need to make a hole for the third lead and add a wire to connect it. So, lots of extra soldering but not that hard to do. Similarly, there is only one rotary encoder footprint, but if you got creative, you could use another kind by bending the leads up and adding wires to the other pads - if you're using switched encoders, the pads for the switch might even align as well.

NOTE: The bulk order of panels to be run by Doug will be based on the layout that uses the rectangular switch caps. MEC switches and caps are just an option for crazy people who want illuminated switches and are willing to pay/make their own one-off panels. I will make sure the MEC 3F switch fits the switch footprints on the PCB, but you'll have to customize the FPD file to suit your own needs.

MB-SEQ_V3_snapshot_51_mec_1e.pdf

MB-SEQ_V3_snapshot_51_mec_1d.pdf

[Wilba]

ups, "Custom MEC Love" clear caps... but hey Wilba, if you don't have a layout already done don't bother... unless you want to ;)

You can adjust the label positions to suit... look at the other layouts to get an idea what's possible.

I think it can work really good, no bi-color leds though, what are those for?

The step LEDs are 3mm bicolor, so they could look like one row of TK's Duo LED matrix. Or not, the option is yours. It should be possible to put a 3-lead LED in the MEC 3F switch.

but there could be one issue: 23.2mm total height with mec switches and the clear caps (4.5mm height version of the cap)

You're looking at the dimension of the tallest kind of 1S cap. The ones in the bulk order are 16.0mm from PCB to top of cap.

The real issue is these caps are 11.5mm between PCB and the start of the narrow part, i.e. you need 11.5mm of gap between PCB and panel. I've planned for exactly 10mm. However, it's probably not that big an issue, at 11.5mm gap, the encoder shafts will protrude enough to put the knobs on, and the LCDs mount directly to the panel as close as possible. You'll need some way of setting that 11.5mm gap, by making your own custom spacers or something.

what's the total height with the x0x style switch and caps?

15.2mm

btw. Wilba, the encoders you are using are from your group buy, right?, could you add holes for smash's encoders or is it too late?

Too late. :) Actually, not that easy to do, there's too many traces there. I'm sure a combination of bending encoder leads, bending out the encoder mount tabs and maybe a little hot glue :) might be a sufficient workaround. Note also that a different encoder will have a different shaft height, so make sure there's enough shaft protruding to put the knobs on, or alternately, you could try making the panel holes bigger and making the knobs sit inside the hole (like on TK's MB-SEQ).

[sineSurfer]

just for the sake of it used your pdf to build the s1 caps version, looks good too and no need to move the labels around but...

The hard way seems to be way harder than I thought (custom panel, pcb/panel gap, third hole on the switches, led wiring, etc.) so I think i'll stick with your plan on this one, thanks for the pdfs Wilba  ;D

[bugfight]

looking good, wilba[me=bugfight]likey[/me]

[sineSurfer]

ahh, any particular reason to have "UTILITY" button twice?

[Walle]

Nice and clean design as always, Wilba! This time, I´ll make sure not to miss out... :-[

[Wilba]

ahh, any particular reason to have "UTILITY" button twice?

Because TK wanted it  ;D  It's a shortcut button, instead of pressing MENU and then GP button 10. According to him, it's frequently used, which is why it's also the default function for the F1 button.

Thanks for pointing it out. I've changed those five buttons to F1,F2,F3,F4,F5. F1 can still be a shortcut to the UTILITY menu. I have no idea what functions to use for F2-F5, as the default functions for F2-F4 are now all handled by dedicated buttons (step view, trigger layer, track group). I'm sure everyone would agree that user configurable buttons are preferable and more aesthetic than no buttons and some empty space there.

I've been delaying ordering this panel from Front Panel Express for some reason, my subconscious was telling me "not yet" but I didn't know why. This change must have been the reason. Time to order the panel now, hooray!

[sineSurfer]

Because TK wanted it  ;D  It's a shortcut button, instead of pressing MENU and then GP button 10. According to him, it's frequently used, which is why it's also the default function for the F1 button.

yeah right, blame TK! ;D

I'm glad I spotted that one before you ordered the panel, don't forget to post pictures when it's done heehee

[dstamand]

That is a beautifull design, i can't wait to receive the PCB. I'll do my own case and front panel but the wilba layout is pure joy.

[jbutron]

Am I later for one kit?  ::)

Thank you

[TK.]

On my frontpanel, I will call this button "Utility" anyhow, regardless if it is mapped to F1 or not - why using a cryptic name when the purpose of this button is already clear?

The MENU+GP 10 combination is mainly intended for people who forgot to add F1..F4 on their earlier panel (because they thought it has no useful function)... or if they use F1..F4 for other purposes. If you don't like this duplicate, it would probably be better to map the MENU function to another page (e.g. the upcoming event live triggering options?)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[napierzaza]

Just to put in my two cents, could actually having a GM5 be cheaper and more space saving than all those IIC modules? For sure people would have to do some SMD, but it's good for the constitution. Which is why I tried to make my mistake of buying TSSOP 74hc195 chips into a whole SMD project! It works!

[TK.]

How is this question related to Wilba's Control Surface PCB?

GM5 is a closed source project. It doesn't allow to access the MIDI Tx/Rx ports via IIC.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[napierzaza]

This is fair enough, you're right. I suppose also it's not even to do with Wilba's thing, but the ultracore. Someone previously suggested to Wilba to add space for the USB port and the GM5. But supposing that it is indeed closed source, and scarce, it's not the best idea.

Just giving my two cents, but I guess I lost .015$ of them by making a dumb suggestion. Ah well.

[Wilba]

In case people were interested in seeing how the switch caps and knobs look in real life... here's a quick teaser shot after the PCB/panel/components fit test.

Knobs are just placed on the panel, no encoders mounted yet, but I did fit test them separately.

The panel is from Front Panel Express. Acrylic windows for the displays are not installed into the panel yet.

[bugfight]

sweeeeeet

[Walle]

The square buttons looks awesome! ;D

You got my full attention, Wilba!