MB 6582/Midifying Project Questions

[SIDsyndrome]

Hello,

I'm partway into a project where I intend to use the MB-6582 by Wilba as the synthesizer heart of an old non-working keyboard I have.  Basically what I would like to have is simple: 

-I'd like to mount MIDI i/o/t panel jacks on the back of the keyboard case or at least the i/o jacks.

-I'd like the 61 keys to be able to send the typical on/off messages, and have no need for anything fancier.

So even though Wilba's synth can be a standalone MIDI module that could be accessed by a keyboard, my plan is to keep it inside the keyboard case.  I'm having trouble understanding exactly what kind of path I'd need to follow in order to do this successfully though.  Something like...?

Keys -> DIN -> DOUT -> MB 6582 board -> the MIDI/Audio outs from the MB 6582 board? 

Am I correct in assuming that I'll need 2 DINX4 modules and 2 DOUTX4 modules to cover the 61 keys?

The plan is to also create a similar control surface functionally to the MB 6582, but to customize the layout and cosmetics to fit the keyboard casing using individual modules instead of Wilba's control surface.  I just really liked the consolidation of everything on the base PCB which is why I decided to build that one. 

Thanks to anyone for help!

SIDsyndrome

[fussylizard]

I have no idea what the output of a keyboard would be (is there a standard interface or something?) but you might also consider asking around in the Midification sub-form (http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/board,5.0.html) since someone keeping up to date there might have some ideas for you.

The MB-6582 board is expecting MIDI so you'd have to either hack the firmware (and the MB-6582 PC board) to somehow tell it when a key is pressed or figure out how to convert the keyboard output into MIDI and just use the MB-6582 as an internal sound module.  I would think sending MIDI to the MB-6582 would be easier to do...you would basically be adding MIDI support to a keyboard (as per the "midification" forum).

From what you said I assume the MIDI out function on your keyboard is broken.  If not, you could just route MIDI internally to the MB-6582.

[Futureman]

This might help?

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,12413.0.html

Instead of trying to resurrect a old keyboard, I just bought a Second hand controller for $20.

Was much easier, and more likely cheaper in the long run (And less heart ache)

Regards

Mike

[Wilba]

Don't try to run a keyboard controller on the master PIC of the MB-SID (i.e. on the MB-6582 PCB). The MB-SID firmware takes up nearly all the flash memory, RAM and processor cycles - it's barely coping now with a control surface! It is much better to use a separate Core/DIN modules for the keyboard controller. It's also a LOT of work to get that going, even more if you want key velocity, so the easier option is to use an existing keyboard controller (i.e. a commercial one) as other people suggest. But if you have your heart set on a specific keyboard, keep going, but make that project sort of independent - i.e. get it going as a generic MIDI keyboard outputting on channel 1... then connect that to the MB-6582 base, perhaps through some kind of switch or a loopback MIDI cable so you have the option of keyboard or external MIDI control.

[SIDsyndrome]

Yes!  That's exactly what I had in mind - using separate Core/DIN modules for the keyboard and then connecting that to the Base.  The keyboard is an old Univox Electric piano if anyone has any ideas on how to approach that?

I'll be looking into the Midification forum posts some more, too. 

Thanks

[SIDsyndrome]

get it going as a generic MIDI keyboard outputting on channel 1... then connect that to the MB-6582 base, perhaps through some kind of switch or a loopback MIDI cable so you have the option of keyboard or external MIDI control.

Hi All -

I am sorry if it is bad etiquette to resurrect a year old post, but I thought it would be preferable to a new thread on the same topic.

I've taken all the advice given to me about going with an existing MIDI controller and now I just have a question on making sure I understand what Wilba said above...

-controller midi out -> 6582 midi in

The problem with this, as Wilba describes is that it means I have no option of external MIDI control...

I'm not sure what a loopback MIDI cable is, but the other idea that I had was to use the MIDImerger and go

controller -> input 1

external jack -> input 2

output of merger -> input of 6582

This seems like a great plan to me but...

- maybe there's something better that I don't know about?

- the uCApps page for the MIDImerger says it supports

* Two MIDI INs (one hardware, one software implemented)

Would my description of having a keyboard controller for one MIDI in and a (probably rarely used) external option for the 2nd MIDI in fit what the MIDImerger supports?

Thanks guys!

[Wilba]

What I was suggesting as a "switch or loopback cable" was...

1. setup keyboard controller with MIDI Out port

2. setup MB-6582 PCB with MIDI In port

3A. use short MIDI cable between the keyboard MIDI Out and MB-6582 MIDI In, remove if you want external control

or

3B. use a DPDT switch to internally connect the two "active" signals of the keyboard MIDI Out with MB-6582 MIDI In, in between the MB-6582's MIDI In socket and the MB-6582's MIDI In circuitry. i.e. the switch controls whether MB-6582 gets MIDI from a MIDI In socket, or internally from the keyboard's MIDI Out. (this is why I suggest DPDT, this way you can leave a cable connected to the MIDI In socket and it will be ignored when the switch is set to "keyboard"). Thus the switch acts like a virtual MIDI cable, and is very easy to implement.

Note that both 3A and 3B mean you cannot have simultaneous keyboard AND external MIDI control of the MB-6582. If you want that, then yes, you should use a MIDI Merger like you describe... but you could ALSO could do the same thing by connecting the keyboard's MIDI Out to something else which routes it back to the MB-6582. Example: Keyboard MIDI Out connected to PC, PC MIDI Out connected to MB-6582 MIDI In, PC will "pass through" keyboard events to MB-6582 on channel 1 (perhaps), while also outputting on other channels via sequencer etc.

My point in telling you all this is so you know you don't really NEED a MIDI Merger unless you really need simultaneous control of MB-6582 via keyboard and some MIDI hardware.

[SIDsyndrome]

Ah, that makes so much sense! Thank you once again, Wilba.

So just to be sure I'm getting it; option 3A would look like:

On the back of my case in the I/O section, I'll see MIDI out (keyboard) MIDI in (6582) and MIDI out (6582) and all I'd have to do is put a short cable between the first two to have my "standard" keys setup and then I could remove that when I want external control.

3B sounds badass, but may be slightly tricky for my noobishness. I'll have to think it over and if I go that way I'll look more into DPDT switches and quite likely need some help again.

Anyway, that was a very helpful clarification because I was not envisioning simultaneous external and keyboard control, but I also had the mindset that I'd be connecting the keyboard MIDI out and 6582 MIDI in within the case. It never occured to me that by simply making that an external, removable control I could very simply have what I wanted all along.

Good to know that the merger was an option if I wanted to go that route though.