36 replies to this topic

[ultra]

no kidding nils, my seq went thru so many iterations as i learned more about electronics. ended up costing me a lot of money.

i've made a new layout for the clip trigger device:


now i have 2 dogxl lcds, a custom FPE case, and plenty of room for additional controls.

going the custom case route is more expensive, but in the end i'll have exactly what i want. for a main mixer box, motorfaders are absolutely possible. so is showing track names, eq and other parameter values, etc. now anything is possible.

[ultra]

btw, is there already a schem for rgb matrix? i found the duoled one but the forum isn't searchable, getting database errors.

[kristal=]

@tk: great to hear that rgb-leds are supported! i guess it doesn't make a difference if they are smd-mounted? at least if you are ignoring having them soldered.

@ultra: 7 colors are more than sufficient! if your api forces ableton's colors to the nearest possible color, great. at least you can distinguish them. haven't made a video for you so far. my condo is in a mess and i'm lazy to clean it up before making this video. hope i'll find some energy soon.

aren't the dogxl-displays a little bit of an overkill? but looks definitely interesting! have you thought about track selection buttons and solo buttons? you would have to add 2 more button rows, but they come handy. for example, selecting a track and changing the parameters of a plugin.
or mute all other channels out.

for some visualization for what a rgb-matrix could look like, i made a rendering of my rgb lcd-switch matrix idea:

Attached Files

•  lcd.jpg   281.46K   75 downloads

Edited by krisschneider, 24 September 2010 - 16:44.

[nILS]

That would cost how much? $42,000,000?

[kristal=]

nah, only about $5.000. i know, not for the common ableton user. but i'll start with 2 buttons and see how far i'll get over the years. and in the meantime ultra's trigger is a cool replacement for commercial clip launchers.

[ultra]

it'll actually be 5 colors i suppose, since we need one color for a playing clip, and another for a stopped clip.

i don't think the dogxl are overkill at all. if i'm gonna use an lcd to display clip names and other information, might as well have enough space available to show it properly.

track select, solo, mute, etc, i think should be on the mixer.

[kristal=]

@ultra: 5 colors are still impressive. i'm curious how this will look like. okay, i was wrong with the expression "overkill". i meant overwhelming :-))

well, for the video i promised you... are you familiar with a clip-launcher? like the apc40 or the launchpad? because i'd like to just give you some humble input. not that i'll make a video and tell you stuff you already know.

for the current frontpanel layout: your matrix is 9x6. but the button pad from livid is 8x8. are individual sizes possible?

[ultra]

i'm familiar with those devices. if there's a certain behavior you think it should have, you should let me know. i'm starting the pcb layout but i expect that to take me a while. still looking for schematics.

but extra column is for scene triggering, and their website says the buttonpad can be cut apart to make new dimensions.

[ultra]

i've done some more looking into using rgb leds, and i think i'm not gonna do it. there's too many negatives involved:

- power requirements
- driver changes
- no schem for rgb leds, i'd have to modify the blm and hope i understand what i'm doing
- routing the pcb would be a nightmare

the buttonpad is going to be its own pcb, which means if someone nails down the correct way to do it in the future, it can be changed.

ultra

[kristal=]

ultra: well, if you're familiar with those devices, a video won't make much sense. i'd probably tell you stuff you already know. bummer with the rgb-matrix, but i understand it's complicated and you don't see an advantage in that. did a more lowcost and affordable approach towards
an ableton controller today. maybe one could be realized in the future, when things are more clear.

best

martin

Attached Files

•  matrix_full0001.jpg   526.25K   83 downloads

[ultra]

i'm looking into a different way of doing the buttons after a conversation with smashtv:



in the end, the price should be about the same (after led, silicone grid, spacers, etc) - maybe $2/each. they also can be red, green, or orange.

also, they're 10mm and can give me more space to work with on the panel, which is also making me rethink some things as well.

i like the modular idea, but it might save some money in the end by going all-in-one with this. 2 pac-tec boxes are $80, where it's $60 for the seq case tk is working on. also, a pair of dogxl lcds can be used for the entire controller, where clip information and other information can be swapped on the screen.

the metal case seems far more professional, and there's plenty of room for a 9x6 clip grid (not using the colored buttons for clip stop anymore) as well as motorfaders, lcd, etc.

one more advantage is that the entire thing can be perfboarded, instead of having to buy a pcb. i'll still make a pcb because i'm not crazy enough to perfboard a blm.

i'll post some drawings later.

ultra

[TK.]

If you want more room for additional button rows, we could ask Heidenreich for a second case design, e.g. for 4U or 5U panels.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[ultra]

i think i may have to go that route. not so much because of button rows, but because i'm looking at it a bit differently. i haven't thrown out the modular idea, but serious money could be saved on core32's, lcds, cases, etc if i make an all-in-one box. a 4u or 5u design would allow for motorfaders and a lot of the other controls i'd like to have.

[ultra]

so i'm pretty much settled on a clip trigger design, and i've decided to go minimal. it will make this project *much* cheaper to build than before.

this design uses simple tact switches without a cap and bi-color leds. very simple and cheap. i will be able to put the entire project, including the shift registers, on a single pcb. also, i'll have enough space to use thru-hole components.



it all looks pretty simple, but there's some extra capabilities behind it. i still plan on doing other live related midiboxes, but i threw in some features that should allow some extra control using only this midibox. most of the non-clip trigger related functions will be more for studio use than live performance.

what you see is an 8x6 grid of buttons with bi-color leds to indicate the status of a clip. it will be able to indicate if a clip is playing, stopped, existing, or queued. the 9th column at the right is for scenes, with the same kind of indication. the 7th row (first row of red) are stop buttons for the track, and a led to show the track has nothing playing.

each track comes with a pair of buttons at the bottom. one is for mute and the other is for solo, and each gets an indicator led as well.

at the bottom right is a preview button. in case you get lost in the clip matrix, you can hold it and tap a clip to set live's red box around only that clip.

the top knob (track) moves live's red grid horizontally, while the scene one moves the grid vertically.

the bottom-right knob and alt button are where the extra capabilities come into play. before i continue, i realize that the ergonomics of the added features aren't the greatest, but like i said, it's more for in the studio when you're using this thing as a scratch pad. the extra features are pretty easy to add (at least, physically) so why not?

by default, the bpm/vol/pan knob controls bpm in live. if you press the alt button, you enter a mode to control volume or pan for a track by selecting a track's mute or solo button (depending on if you want vol or pan) after pressing alt.

for instance, if you want to control the volume of track 3, you hold alt and press the mute button for track 3, and volume control mode is enabled. then the column of clip status led indicators can turn into a crude volume level indicator like how the novation launchpad works. pressing the mute or alt button again would return it to the clip triggering state.

i've decided to keep these projects as simple as possible. the silicon buttons pretty much guarantee you'll be using surface mount components if you want the shift registers on-board, and using other buttons is just too expensive. also, i can easily keep this theme going with the other boxes i want to build.

ultra

Edited by ultra, 10 October 2010 - 06:13.

[ultra]

i've made a few modifications to make this easier to look at. i've also added the following:

- play/stop transport control
- a nudge button. turning this on will control clip nudge rather than solo/mute

edit: for more functionality, holding the alt button while pressing a track stop button can turn clip looping on and off.

Edited by ultra, 10 October 2010 - 14:47.

[ultra]

[ultra]

finalized designs: