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A slightly different Control Surface


.CID
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Hey all,

being an IDE student, I'd like to come up with my own control surface rather then build one someone else thought of. I know, it's stubborn and maybe not the best idea, but I'd like to give it a try nonetheless ;-)

This is what I've come up with. It's -heavily- based on the TK/Wilba layout, but with differnt buttons and caps. I'd also like it to be symmetrical because I think that looks great. The only problem is, that I've never used a sequencer before (just some softsynths) and therefore have no idea whether this layout is comfortable while playing. What do you think?

post-8153-017141000 1290521549_thumb.jpg

Also a 3d render of the entire thing to clarify what you're looking at:

post-8153-032882700 1290521570_thumb.png

Kind regards,

.CID

***EDIT***

I just noticed I based this on the v2/v3 button layout rather than the v4 button layout, so I'm missing a few keys. Still, comments are uch appreciated!

Edited by .CID
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I like it, especially the Machinedrum-like buttons - do you have a supplier for them?

When designing a UI, it is most important to separate different "logical regions" into different comprehendable blocks. The human eye has problems when it is confronted with a large mass of same-sized objects (buttons in a grid). Colors may help, lines around sections may help, placing button groups apart from other button groups may help... but it is a difficult task... especially if space is limited and you want all buttons.

In the end, you must decide if you like the button positions, and how your workflow is. I decided to build a very slim CS to be attached below my master keyboard to minimize hand movements between recording and playing... it is not done yet... a difficult task to decide what to put where :)

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thanks for the tips!

as for the buttons:I had the ones from the attached PDF in mind while making the 3d model, but I found out they can't be used with PCB switches (only with €1+ other ones). I'm now trying to find matching caps for https://www.distrelec.com/ishop/Datasheets/03565306.pdf or the similar ones from Conrad( http://www2.conrad.nl/goto.php?artikel=700622 ), but although the PDF form Conrad says 12.4x12.4 mm caps for the switches exist I can't find anyone selling them yet.

*** EDIT ***

I've finally found a website selling both square caps and switches that suit them =D

I'll be going with this switch and this cap. Since they're 12x12mm instead of 14mm I'll be having a bit more space to mess around with : )

5AC5-2,5AC52,,Cap black,Pla..pdf

Edited by .CID
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I like the "menu buttons" below the menu jog wheel. Like this, it may be possible to navigate the menu with one hand only this way...

But what about the step buttons - should not they be aligned to the step rotary encoders?

Thanks for the button link!

Edited by Hawkeye
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I tried to combine the "MENU+.." buttons so they should be easily accessible, I'm glad someone with more experience thinks it works.

Sorry, i have no user experience with the SEQ yet, too, just building one... but looking forward to using one for the first time on sunday :-)

Wich ones would that be?

Below every rotary encoder there should be a button, called "general purpose button" in the handbook. Such a button in conjunction with the rotary encoder allows to modify things displayed on the screen directly above it. That´s why they need to be aligned below each other... and aligned to 5 character cells (1/8th of 40 characters) on the screen.

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Sorry, i have no user experience with the SEQ yet, too, just building one... but looking forward to using one for the first time on sunday :-)

Hehe,ok. Good luck on finishing yours, that topic of yours is really nice to read!

Below every rotary encoder there should be a button, called "general purpose button" in the handbook. Such a button in conjunction with the rotary encoder allows to modify things displayed on the screen directly above it. That´s why they need to be aligned below each other... and aligned to 5 character cells (1/8th of 40 characters) on the screen.

Ah, thanks. I'll edit my layout to fit that : )

*10 minutes later*

There we go!

I also buried the datawheel a bit deeper to get some better access to the moved buttons. I might bury the encoders a bit deeper for some better viewing of the LCDs.

Now to find a function for those two extra buttons ;-)

post-8153-022586100 1290547112_thumb.jpg

post-8153-005149400 1290547413_thumb.png

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi, me again.

I'm trying to figure out the wiring for all of the keys, and I'm running into some difficulties. I don't really understand the MBSEQ_HW.V4 file, but I think I can manage the pin assignments if I take a closer look at it.

However, can someone tell me what the mentioned '8x8 BLM from Wilba's frontpanel' is? I don't see a BLM on the frontpanel, at least not one like the 16x16+X BLM. Are these the keys that have LEDs next to them?

oh, and for those like me who like images, another render just for the heck of it ;-)

post-8153-034069200 1291744754_thumb.png

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I'm using a combined LED and switch matrix.

One 74HC595 is used as a current sink for 8 "columns" of LEDs and switches.

One 74HC595 is used as a current source for 8 "rows" of LEDs.

One 74HC165 is used to sample the state of 8 switches in one "column".

The remaning 5 74HC165 are used to sample the encoder states. Four of these are close to the step encoders (to minimize traces), the fifth is on the far right and connects to the menu encoder. If you use encoders with switches, then the 16 step encoder switches (wired in parallel) and the menu encoder's switch are connected to this 74HC165.

When putting switches in a matrix, you need to put a diode in series (in this case, cathodes are connected to the "column"), similarly the LEDs are connected with common cathodes. The diodes prevent false triggering if more than one switch is pressed at a time - without them, the current could be sinking switches on more than one column.

DIN/DOUT on the same PCB is good, but quite hard to layout, it takes a long time to find the best places to fit the ICs and then even more time optimizing the traces, thus you may start out with switches and LEDs at certain positions in the matrix and then swap them around. For example, the 16 step switches and 16 step LEDs are connected to the 8 matrix columns in a pattern - each column has two switches and two LEDs, but the left and right sides are in a different order. Similarly, the switches roughly below each pair of step switches are connected to the same column of the matrix, but thereafter the row connections are not always regular.

I'm not sure which resistors you say are missing - if you mean for the LEDs, then you only need one resistor per matrix row (i.e. connected to the 74HC595) but I've also used two sometimes, i.e. the 74HC595 connects to two resistors, one leading to some LEDs on the right side. If you mean missing resistors for the DIN, there are 6-pin 10K resistor networks next to each 74HC165.

BTW it is the same kind of switch/LED matrix I used on the MB-6582, with the exception that I do not use transistors for the columns, since the MB-6582 has two 74HC595 supplying a 16x8 LED matrix, the SEQ only has an 8x8 LED matrix. So you can see some kind of schematic in the wiki (http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/wilba_mb_6582 see "Control Surface Wiring"). Note the JDx connections are (essentially) 1:1 with DIN/DOUT D0..D8 pin outputs.

If this is your first time designing PCBs, perhaps it might be easier to do it like the MB-6582 control surface - don't put the DIN/DOUT on the PCB, just do the matrix on the PCB and connect it to external DIN/DOUT modules. For an MB-SEQ (potentially 17" wide!) there will be plenty of room for DIN/DOUT modules in the case, so the matrix will just mean you need less DIN/DOUT modules.

I've attached the matrix pin assignments, I assume this is correct, but it's not really that important if it is not - you will need to define your own, but you could use this as a guide - i.e. see how I've arranged switches into columns to sort of match their horizontal location. If you match the GP LED assignments, that would be ideal, because then you can use the same code in MB-SEQ firmware.

=====

Attachment: http://midibox.org/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=4925

Thanks Findbuddha, after what you told me I found this.

If I understand correctly (I am completely new to this subject) all encoders are wired to DOUT pin 0 and two DIN pins, and a bunch of buttons are connected to DIN Unit 2 and various DOUT pins via a diode(or is this diode set between the DIN and the button?)

Also, I don't understand the use of Unit 8 (DOUT)yet, but I'll have a go at that tomorrow.

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Thanks guys, that clarified a lot. I think I have figured out how to wire the 64 switches, but there's still one thing unclear: beneath the 4 rows of GP LED connections (in the attached JPEG) there is 4 rows of what seem to be duplicates of the key names, I assume these are the LEDs fitting those keys. I intend to use separate modules rather than building a PCB like Wilba's wich includes all of them since I'm quite the newbie at this. Does the "<i>* indicates connection to an alternate resistor connected to 74HC595 output pin</i>" mean there should be a different resistor than 'standard' on a DOUT module?

I've also attached my 'simple' version of the schematic, this is how I now figure the key wiring should be. Have I connected the diodes correctly? (I find it too hard to tell from Wilba's PCB PDF)

Thanks for the hints and tips so far!

-----

EDIT: accidentally there's 4 rows of bicolour LEDs in the wiringTest.JPG, this should be 2, obviously.

EDIT2: I found http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=mb-6582:mb-6582_cs_din_wiring.pdf, wich clarifies the diode question.

post-8153-050405300 1291985605_thumb.jpg

post-8153-045307600 1291985946_thumb.jpg

Edited by .CID
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Does the "<i>* indicates connection to an alternate resistor connected to 74HC595 output pin</i>" mean there should be a different resistor than 'standard' on a DOUT module?

On Wilba's PCB, the 74HC595 in question: 4 of the pins are connected to 2 resisters in parallel eg. DOUT12 and DOUT12A

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