TK.

Upcoming MBHP_MF_NG module

348 posts in this topic

Hi *!

The layout is almost there but needs a bit of cleanup work.

I will post the layout here in this thread when it's ready for testing/feedback. (translation: no need to ask me privately for the files)

Time frame: days not weeks, I guesstimate a couple more hours of cleanup will get it there - the trace tetris time sink is already done.

I have attached an in process image, not to tease but to show it's moving. :)

Best regards

Tim

post-3497-014577700 1304447521_thumb.png

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Hello Tim,

when mailing you, I was trying to offer some help. Please excuse me, if this felt urging to you, it wasn´t meant to be!

Anyway, if there is anything I could do just let me know...

Cheers, Emre

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Hi Emre!

when mailing you, I was trying to offer some help. Please excuse me, if this felt urging to you, it wasn´t meant to be!
No worries I did not perceive this as urging from you, I just gave a quick progress report on the layout here in the thread so I would not have so many emails to write (a few other people also requested the files via my inbox). :)

Anyway, if there is anything I could do just let me know...
Will do.... are you etching in house or planning to use a proto service?

Best regards

Tim

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Hello Tim,

I`ll have someone etching the boards for me (platinenbelicher.de).

The layout looks super already (a lot better than my first tries :) )!

Regards, Emre

Edited by veermaster

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I´m sorry, yes, www.platinenbelichter.de is correct.

Wrote that post, when I was bathing my kids...

Edited by veermaster

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Dear TK,

By enabling the MIDI merger it will be possible to chain MBHP_MF_V3 with a common core module.

The "Faked Logic/Mackie Control" Mode will handle the Pitch Bender Events.

Do I get it right, that I can run the LC App on a Core8 module connecting a MF V3 board to it? Then I have to enable a so called "midi merge function" through MIOS studio and have the MF V3 integrated?

The schematic is final, the firmware is released in the repository and I can send you an MIOS Studio update for calibration (or you can compile it by yourself).

Best Regards, Thorsten.

I just asked Mike to program a PIC18F452 for this purpose and showed him the above link, but he told me he would need a hex file. Could you provide me with a link to the needed file and would you be so kind to also send me the MIOS Studio update?

Thanks so much!

Emre

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Do I get it right, that I can run the LC App on a Core8 module connecting a MF V3 board to it? Then I have to enable a so called "midi merge function" through MIOS studio and have the MF V3 integrated?

Yes, just connect the module between the MIDI Out of your computer and the MIDI IN of the core which is running the (MIOS8 based) MBLC application.

Enable the "MIDIbox Link Forwarding Point", so that events generated by the faders will be tunneled through the MBLC merger.

Important: use the default operation mode of MBHP_MF_V3 (Pitchbender events received/sent on channel 1..8), don't enable the faked LC Emulation as this could confuse your DAW.

I just asked Mike to program a PIC18F452 for this purpose and showed him the above link, but he told me he would need a hex file. Could you provide me with a link to the needed file and would you be so kind to also send me the MIOS Studio update?

Since MBHP_MF_V3 is a common MIOS8 application, it has to be programmed together with MIOS via MIDI.

So:

- you need a PIC18F452 with preburned MIOS8 Bootloader V1.2b

- once you built the MBHP_MF_V3 module, upload MIOS V1.9g (see also http://www.ucapps.de/mios_bootstrap_newbies.html)

- thereafter upload the MBHP_MF_V3 application

- thereafter you can configure and test/calibrate the motorfaders with the MBHP_MF V3 tool which is part of MIOS Studio

Code upload and configuration has to be done while MIDI IN/OUT of the MBHP_MF V3 are *directly* connected to your computer (the link via MBLC probably won't work)

The configuration tool is already part of MIOS Studio 2.2.1

Link to MBHP_MF V3 application: http://www.ucapps.de/mios/mbhp_mf_v3_0.zip

Again: the .hex file which is part of this package can't be burned with a PIC programmer, it can only be uploaded via MIDI. The PIC requires the common MIOS8 bootloader instead!

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Thanks for clearing things up for me Thorsten, much appreciated!

Cheers, Emre

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In the schematic of the MF V3 there is a connector J11. May I ask, what its purpose is?

Thanks, Emre

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In the schematic of the MF V3 there is a connector J11. May I ask, what its purpose is?

Thanks, Emre

... to connect it to the Core board (Midi I/O at TTL level).

Greets, Roger

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... to connect it to the Core board (Midi I/O at TTL level).

Greets, Roger

Thank you Roger for your fast reply.

I´m trying to understand how to setup my Midibox LC with the upcoming MF V3.

Thorsten already gave an answer to this, so if I get it right I connect my computers MIDI OUT to my MV V3 MIDI IN (connector J13). Then I connect my MF V3 MIDI OUT (con J12) to the CORE8 MIDI IN (con J13) and the CORE8 MIDI OUT (con J12) to my computers MIDI IN. At which point does MF V3 con J11 come into play?

I´ve been messing around with a custom layout for the MF V3. Tim, please don´t take my move wrong, it´s just that I want to build one big faderbox with 24 faders and would like to avoid too much cable soldering. Also I want to power them all from one external PSU so I just skipped that part. But of course I will still be happy to betatest your design when it is ready!

For those who are interested I attached my design (8 faders). I still have to check everything and get some things clear before having it etched. Also I attached a design for the knobs and encoders (4 channels). BTW these are my first two PCB designs so please be kind to me! :)

Once everything is ready and I know what I´m talking about I will write a nice summary of my Midibox adventures. I´m pretty sure it will turn out great!

Thanks again everybody,

Emre

post-8411-022257600 1305653976_thumb.jpg

post-8411-021278300 1305653991_thumb.jpg

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Answering my own question: "Midibox LINK" seems to be the magic word! I just found that site describing the concept of how to chain two or more Core equipped modules. So it looks like the interconnection of the MF V3 and Core8 is made through J11 on both modules (MO to MI). Do I have to take out the 6N138 of the Core8?

And for education purposes: could someone translate the term "TTL Level"?

Thank you,

Emre

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Answering my own question: "Midibox LINK" seems to be the magic word! I just found that site describing the concept of how to chain two or more Core equipped modules. So it looks like the interconnection of the MF V3 and Core8 is made through J11 on both modules (MO to MI). Do I have to take out the 6N138 of the Core8

Yes, it's the Link function (TK explained it somewhere in this topic).

6N138 is not necessary anymore but does not matter if you don't take it out.

And for education purposes: could someone translate the term "TTL Level"?

Thank you,

Emre

TTL

Greets, Roger

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Thank you for that link, Roger, I got it!

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Dear Forum members,

in the meantime I got my first prototype PCBs for my MBLC.

After many sleepless nights I succeeded to get it running, I am very happy!

In this post I just want to refer to the topic of this thread, the MF V3 module and its implementation.

Since I´m an absolute beginner to Midibox I write this from a novice point of view...

The design of my PCB I posted earlier has a mistake but I fortunately figured it out before I had it fabricated so now it´s perfect. The power for the Motorfaders comes from an external PSU (around +10V), the +5V for the Logic comes from J11 of the Core8 PCB. Just connect "+5V" and GND of J11 on both boards (Core8 and MF V3).

Connect MIDI IN and Out (J13 and J12) of MF V3 to your MIDI interface and start MIOS Studio on your PC. First change the ID of your PIC to 1 (if it´s not done yet), then upload the newest MIOS on the PIC, thereafter upload the MF V3 application. Now with the integrated Calibration Tool of MIOS Studio you can, well, calibrate your faders, but even more important, set the MIDI merger to "Midibox Link Forwarding Point"!

Now disconnect the MIDI OUT to your interface but connect the MIDI OUT of the Core8 to your interface. Connect "MO" of J11 on MF V3 to "MI" of Core8 (which ID is 0). Now you have to set the Core8 as the "Midi Link Ending Point". I thought it could be done by changing the main.inc within the MBLC application:

;; initialize the integrated MIDI merger

movlw MIOS_MIDI_MERGER_MBLINK_EP

call MIOS_MIDI_MergerSet

But this didn´t work for me. Instead I had to run Serge's MIDIbox64e Editor and do the setting there. Well, at least it works now...

In the end the chain looks like this:

MIDI OUT Interface -> MIDI IN MF V3 (ID1); "MO" MF V3 -> "MI" Core8 (ID 0); MIDI OUT Core8 -> MIDI IN Interface

The advantage about the two different IDs is that it´s possible to upload apps on the Core8 without affecting the MF V3. Still you can to run the Calibration Tool (select ID 1) for the faders. In this chain it´s not possible do an upload on MF V3 though, but once it´s running you won´t do that anyway...

I hope this might be of help for someone, since it took me lots of trial and error to find out, but it was definately worth it.

Thanks everybody, especially TK of course!

Emre

post-8411-094010700 1307362636_thumb.jpg

post-8411-088796200 1307362652_thumb.jpg

post-8411-027652900 1307362669_thumb.jpg

post-8411-012809000 1307362698_thumb.jpg

post-8411-054019100 1307362720_thumb.jpg

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great tutorial, every info is correct and well explained - I really appreciate this! :)

best regards, thorsten.

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That´s the least I could do as my little share of contribution to this place!

There is more to come, but it will take me a few weeks. Since it doesn´t belong in this thread it´s gonna be in the HUI section though...

Cheers, Emre

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Dear Forum members,

in the meantime I got my first prototype PCBs for my MBLC.

After many sleepless nights I succeeded to get it running, I am very happy!

In this post I just want to refer to the topic of this thread, the MF V3 module and its implementation.

Since I´m an absolute beginner to Midibox I write this from a novice point of view...

The design of my PCB I posted earlier has a mistake but I fortunately figured it out before I had it fabricated so now it´s perfect. The power for the Motorfaders comes from an external PSU (around +10V), the +5V for the Logic comes from J11 of the Core8 PCB. Just connect "+5V" and GND of J11 on both boards (Core8 and MF V3).

Connect MIDI IN and Out (J13 and J12) of MF V3 to your MIDI interface and start MIOS Studio on your PC. First change the ID of your PIC to 1 (if it´s not done yet), then upload the newest MIOS on the PIC, thereafter upload the MF V3 application. Now with the integrated Calibration Tool of MIOS Studio you can, well, calibrate your faders, but even more important, set the MIDI merger to "Midibox Link Forwarding Point"!

Now disconnect the MIDI OUT to your interface but connect the MIDI OUT of the Core8 to your interface. Connect "MO" of J11 on MF V3 to "MI" of Core8 (which ID is 0). Now you have to set the Core8 as the "Midi Link Ending Point". I thought it could be done by changing the main.inc within the MBLC application:

;; initialize the integrated MIDI merger

movlw MIOS_MIDI_MERGER_MBLINK_EP

call MIOS_MIDI_MergerSet

But this didn´t work for me. Instead I had to run Serge's MIDIbox64e Editor and do the setting there. Well, at least it works now...

In the end the chain looks like this:

MIDI OUT Interface -> MIDI IN MF V3 (ID1); "MO" MF V3 -> "MI" Core8 (ID 0); MIDI OUT Core8 -> MIDI IN Interface

The advantage about the two different IDs is that it´s possible to upload apps on the Core8 without affecting the MF V3. Still you can to run the Calibration Tool (select ID 1) for the faders. In this chain it´s not possible do an upload on MF V3 though, but once it´s running you won´t do that anyway...

I hope this might be of help for someone, since it took me lots of trial and error to find out, but it was definately worth it.

Thanks everybody, especially TK of course!

Emre

Hi, that's a nice design you have there, congratulations !

May I ask where you were able to source the 2x55 char lcd from and how much you paid for it? These seem to be very rare beasts ...

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May I ask where you were able to source the 2x55 char lcd from and how much you paid for it? These seem to be very rare beasts ...

Well spotted... that I would be interested in as well!

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Well spotted... that I would be interested in as well!

... looks to me like the fader knobs and display from an M-Audio controller

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... looks to me like the fader knobs and display from an M-Audio controller

The fader knobs look like http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/media_hqpics/ProjectMix_top.jpg

but the color of the LCD is more yellow on the M-audio. This looks very pretty.

Does anyone know whether the various 2x55 LCDs are have HD44780 controllers? The Mackie HUI

schematic I found on the net did not specify the LCD.

Veermaster, please let us know if you have found a source for the elusive LCDs ...

Alex

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Since the beginning of my researches on how to make a my own custom midibox one of the biggest part was which LCD to use. I wanted my box to be as compact as possible so I soon realized I would need to source these 55x2 Displays. I was thinking of maybe buying a used C4 from ebay and cannibalize it. I also asked at different Mackie repair services how much a spare display would be and was offered one for varying prices inbetween €150-250!

In the end I saw the M-Audio using a similiar display and asked the manufacturer (Varitronix) if they would sell it to me. Well, they can´t because it is a custom layout they are not allowed to sell to anybody else. But they offered me to design a similiar display if only I would buy >500 units a year, hmmm....

Then I asked a friend who is working at a studio supplier and tech service if he could get them for me and this is how it happened!

Yes, these are the original displays used in the "Project Mix I/O", and I could try and ask if he could get some more, but they are not cheap. I payed €90,- but I really wanted them... They don´t use the HD44780 but a different controller, nevertheless they work out of the box (well, with some customization in lc_hlp.inc).

Cheers, Emre

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I was thinking of maybe buying a used C4 from ebay and cannibalize it.

I had that thought before, but then I am not sure if I could successfully extract the displays without breaking them

and make them work with a Midibox. It would also feel wrong to break up a working piece of equipment for parts.

Unfortunately, broken Mackie controls show up on Ebay quite rarely and at still quite high prices.

Yes, these are the original displays used in the "Project Mix I/O", and I could try and ask if he could get some more, but they are not cheap. I payed €90,- but I really wanted them... They don´t use the HD44780 but a different controller, nevertheless they work out of the box (well, with some customization in lc_hlp.inc).

Cheers, Emre

Thanks for the info. EUR90 is quite steep, but not insanely so. The cheapest alternative I have found was to use 4 DOGM 2x16 displays at $65 (so about 45 EUR) which are also quite compact

at 230mm width total. The downside is that the display is then 64 characters wide and the display code had to be changed.

Best,

Alex

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Well the alternative would be something like this: cheaper and even more practical, especially when you would like to break up with the "parallel channels" paradigm. mbhp_glcd_ssd1306.jpg

(This is taken from the programmer's section of the forum, and it's an implementation by TK.)

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