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Rackmount MB6852 ideas?


m00dawg
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Rackmount chassis arrived from Jameco today so I updated the panel with the screw holes. I don't have one of those fancy digital spanner things yet but eyeballing it I was able to get things pretty close. Likely close enough for things to work but I will have to remeasure it before dropping $200 on a panel :)

Anyways I made a buncha changes so thought I'd share.

post-4914-002606700 1295323950_thumb.png

mb6582-R.zip

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Being a big fan of symmetry it seems kinda odd to me that the OSC and CONTROL sections do not align with the FILTER and LFO sections. Also, the engraving seems horribly close to the LEDs on OSC and CONTROL. That seems to mostly be the case because of the logo, which also leads to the screws being all over the place. Not even the knobs are aligned vertically...

Are you a southpaw?

I would also consider switching the fan thingie and the phones jacks. Everything that has cables coming out of it should be as far away from anything else as possible imo.

The way you have laid out the two rows of buttons per section seems kind odd as well... For the LFO section, the LFO selection is the 2nd row, while on the OSC section, the OSC selection is the 1st row.

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Ah you busted me on not fixing some of the text objects. I am using a .100" grid most of the time but need a .05" to fix the text and I just forgot to do that after moving stuff around.

I actually thought the filter/lfo location looked kinda cool myself :) I intentionally moved the screw-holes down for the logo actually. In terms of symmetry, at least when looking at that section (the middle section with the LCD), I thought it looked pretty neat. The section I don't like is the matrix / SID selection sections. It's been when I moved the screws further apart on the matrix to match stuff but they look a bit weird if you look at the top screw-holes over the bottom.

Good idea on the phones thing, though may have to play around with that anyway. I sit on the right of the synths so I would want the headphone jack to be on the right. Previous attempts and switching the matrix and osc/env sections did not go so well but I think I have the basic layout of the sections done such that it may not be as much of an issue.

Yes, depending on how you look at it, the OSC selection is flipped. Originally, I tried to make the most important thing on the top row. So in this case, for me, sync/ring is not as important as the OSC numbers. For the LFO, the type is more important than the number - same for the filter. I sort of see what you mean now when looking at all the sections. I dunno if that would bother me directly but yeah will probably look a bit strange. I tried using single rows of buttons but I started running low on space without things getting really cramped - I can't make the matrix/selector sections much more narrow - not enough to likely fit the additional space the LFO/Filter's needed without really breaking symmetry. I tried various ways to do that but didn't come up with anything better than using two rows - though I'm certainly open to suggestion there.

Yes I'm a soutpaw :)

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Excellent Work.

I am trying to accomplish the same thing. If you could send me the file, I think I could help a bit on symmetry. You have to keep the spacing the same too in order for things to line up of the protoboard. I think you can adjust the grid though and move some things it would work out. If you are going to order this panel, could you possibly look at a group order to save costs? I would be interested. This could turn into MB6582R. Regardless if you use a 2U or 3U layout you will be able to fit the components. You might have to increase the depth of the enclosure though. This is very exciting.

Chris.

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The FPD file is in the ZIP from my last few comments. I have not made any changes since so, sure, feel free to play around and share! The rack is a 3U (300mm depth) I ordered from Jameco. It was the one discussed previously on this thread. Seems like it will work very well.

There is plenty of space for the MB-6582 board in any orientation. I was going to mount mine 90 degrees to how it is mounted on the MB-6852. That way I can have air travel over all the SIDs since I was going to put a low speed fan in back in-line with the front vents, or so is the plan. Mounting it that way does make cabling a bit more complex since the audio and CS cabling would run up the sides. So I may not go that route in the end, but that's the plan.

The right side can then house the PSU. I am thinking of using a modification of this design found on the wiki. It is similar to my current external design with the addition of the bi-polar +/- 12V stuff. The only different is that I would prefer to put the resistors off board and mount them to the case. I was also wanting to use the case as a secondary heatsink to at least the positive regulators (and may do the same for the SIDs depending on the heatsinks I end up using there too). I was hoping to get one bigass heatsink for all the SIDs but I'm not sure how practical that would be :)

I haven't figured it out yet but I wanted to shield the PSU or at least divide that space up and, above the PSU, put the SSM and AOUT stuff. I want to leave the left-hand side of the case open for cooling the SIDs. I don't really know where to start there because the 3U case doesn't come with a half-height plate or anything to use so that's very much a work in progress.

As far a bulk orders, I'm totally cool with that and would even be happy to spearhead that for the panels. I can do the same for my matrix board if anyone wants it. Bear in mind I haven't made prototypes of anything yet. The other CS boards I was going to likely make myself because otherwise it is not cost effective and would involve a lot of waiting on prototypes to get back to me from BatchPCB. I don't have the tools to make a single-board control-surface either so I am going the modular route there for that reason as well. If anyone wants to give that a go, by all means, have at :) I would love a single board myself, though my only requirement this time is to use pin headers for everything since there is more than enough room to do so.

Regardless of bulk orders, I was going to share all my work for anyone that wants it. I don't have much yet but I will likely expand my wiki pages for all this stuff as well once I start with some good solid designs and spend time throwing that up on the wiki. I'm going to work on it either way but additional help, feedback, etc. is absolutely appreciated! It would be fantastic to have a solid, well documented, rackmount option for the MB-6582!

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I should add (sorry for the self post, after a lengthy previous post I might add :) ) that, of course, if anyone wants to work on the board designs, or really any other part of this thing, please feel free and share!

Also, I went ahead and made a wiki page for the project as well. If need be, if enough people are interested, I'm sure I could throw together an SVN or GIT repository if need be.

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Sounds good. I'm going the modular route to save on cost so I can 1) troubleshoot each area 2) remove a module if needed) 3) add more modules if need be 4) finance to save on costs. I'm going to do a bit to the front panel to clean it up but all in all it looks excellent. I'm going to use that 3U rack from Jameco as well. I would not be hard to fabricate a front panel board for this project though I too do not have the software and time to do so. This seems a great solution if someone wants to add to their pre-existing rack. As far as the heat flow, you could have a fan intake in the front with a fan blowing out the rear for a push pull configuration. I was thinking that the SID won't draw that much heat if a proper PSU is used and since you opted for the 12v design. As far as the voltage regulators, having a heat sink protrude out the back side of the case isn't out of the question either and have them mounted with thermal compound. I'll try to work on the design tonight but exams are this week so I don't know how much will get done.

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Ah I see you went with black. Not a bad combo. Only minor issue I see is that the buttons on the OSC are wider apart than the filter/LFO.

As far as the cooling, I was going to either use heatsinks on the regulators or just mount them on the edge of the board so I could screw them to the chassis. I would actually like to somehow do both. Even if it doesn't do much, a heatpipe off the heatsink might be a novel idea. I did consider the option of still going with an external PSU but I think if I add shielding and such it shouldn't be a problem inside the chassis itself. Makes things quite a bit simpler that way anyway.

I'm not sure if custom sinks can be made (within reason) but having a single block for all the SIDs would look so awesome! Not sure how to mount that but, man, would it look cool :) I did some heat tests a while back for SIDs in the MB-6582. It wasn't too terribly bad. There are single chip heatsinks you can buy too. Fuzzylizard found some that work pretty well. I may upgrade just because I have the extra room in a rack but, as Wilba has said over and over, that's probably overkill. Still, SIDs are precious!

One word of warning - the individual boards are larger than the max size for Eagle free. I am working on getting the non-profit version (which allows sizes of 160x100) that should do the job for those. Eagle certainly is not the only CAD software out there but I already know it and I found the other ones more cumbersome given that. It is, however, possible to use something else with fewer restrictions which would allow for making a single control surface board. The problem there is not so much the fab price but the risk of running into a bug and fixing it. With individual boards that's possible too but since they can be made at home, maybe not as significant.

Multiple boards means a lot more wiring though. I haven't figured out the "big picture" of how to wire it all together yet. For instance, some buttons on different boards use the same pin on the MB-6852 mainboard. So does it make sense to wire the two boards together and have a single header down to the MB-6582 mainboard or an intermediate connection board, or...

Anyways once I have the upgraded version of Eagle I will start on the boards myself though feel free to jump on those before I do :)

Oh and, one thing that totally has not been designed is the rear panel. The back panel of the Jameco rack has bent steel around the edges so it can attach to the other parts of the case such that it may be a DIY thing (I'm not sure if FPE accepts pre-made pieces though I haven't looked).

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Ok, fixed the panel, now it is symmetric.

FPE does accept pre-made material but it is a pain to send it, have them work on it, then send it back. (It also comes at a high cost). I think that using proto-board will be good for the panel wiring because it is cheap and easy to work with but it does induce more wiring. Of course PCB layout would lead to a much cleaner and neater/easier to do layout, but it does require prototyping and cost. I think if we can decide on a front panel layout (not color), we could maybe do some bulk ordering and establish a design. I plan to use a modified C64 PSU and mount it internally with a step down transformer. If you can shield the PSU, you should be fine. Since I will be going with individual modules, it might be better to use protoboard for the paneling. I will order the case from Jameco as soon as the next paycheck rolls in.

Chris.

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Protoboards would be fine for most of it. My current PSU is on a protoboard and it works as well as it should. For me, I really like printed boards and as a compromise figure I can try my hand at etching. It doesn't sound as bad as I thought (in terms of the dangerous chemicals) and I can use my Eagle designs to do so. If they turn out really well then I can have them printed if I wanted. Etching is something I have wanted to try anyway so it works out for me.

I'm not so sure about using a protoboard for the LED matrix. I recall seeing some examples of that, but it looked pretty crazy :) I will likely look at having that fabbed. The board at BatchPCB costs $32 (plus $10 handling per order) which is not bad. If a bulk order came together, that number could likely go down by using another fab-house and it would take less time to have them made. I'm not sure what a good minimum would be there and, so far, you and I are the only ones interested in the project thus far :)

As far as the rear panel, most of the items are circular so those could be done without the need of FPE. It's the stuff like the fan hole and power connector that have me worried. If FPE can sell panels made to the specification of the rear panel of the Jameco then it's a non issue but otherwise that's something to consider. Another option is to just cut a square hole out which could be used either for the original MB-6582 rear-panel or could be used for a custom one or something.

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I have been going back and forth with FPE and while they can accept custom metal stuff, they don't do steel. The Jameco rack is only aluminum in the front. FPE did recommend these. However, the costs go WAY up. About $200 ($206 for vents) up from $70 or so.

FPE does not do any metal bending so, while they can make a rear panel that is bent (or will end up being so) on the sides, that would have to be done elsewhere.

Drilling the panel oneself is an option. I would like to figure out a way to get panels made since it would be easier for anyone else making these guys. Not anyone has a large drill press to do that type of work (I don't :P).

I am open to suggestions :)

Update: After thinking about it more, I could probably just cut a square hole from the back of the rack with a Dremmel and then have FPE made a panel for the hole. I can just screw it into the case and call it done. Not as ideal as having an entire rear panel ready to go but it only means I need to cut a big square and screw holes and can leave all the fancy stuff to FPE.

Edited by m00dawg
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Last night I made a power board design that is similar to the one =psu]NorthernLightX designed. I optimized it around using 9V to power the SIDs (though it can still be used with the 6581's - I just did not make a specific pin header for that, though I guess I could since there's room) and removed the LED since I did not think that would be totally useful. I also modified the resistors slightly. Instead of using a single 9W 8 Ohm resistor, I used two 5W 4 Ohm. I was not having much luck finding the 9W 8 Ohm after a bit of looking, but I also like that they are all the same size. So one can buy one of those flat ceramic types and drop a heatsink on it as an option.

I was hoping to use the case as a big heatsink for the positive regulators which is why they have no heatisnk outline. One could be easily added though.

Also, the name of the project is now MB-SIDR8TR (get it?) for now. MB-6582R was too close to the name of the MB-6582 itself. As such, the wiki page has been changed - it is now available here.

Edited by m00dawg
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