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Using a keyboard with sammitch


middleman
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I have a basic (key down only - no velocity sensing) midi keyboard which I plugged into the back of my Sammitch and it just worked - no problems. Now I am thinking of buying a controller with more features, such as touch sensitivity, pitch bend etc. Will any keyboard just work with my Sammitch, or is it necessary to perform some configuration, and if so, can anyone help or point me in the direction ?

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Hi,

some notes:

a) velocity won´t help much as the Sammich SID per default will just play any note with the configured ADSR envelope, regardless of the velocity. This is not bad at all and sounds C64ish :-).

b) pitch-bend will work, and you can control other nice things like filter cutoff from your new keyboard via MIDI.

c) make sure, that your new keyboard has a dedicated MIDI OUT port, as some new ones only offer USB, which is not good.

d) make sure that you can configure, which MIDI CCs are sent when you turn an encoder.

e) if possible, try it out in a shop, so that you feel comfy with the key action (there are different "key weightings", from unweighted light plastic to massive piano hammer-style).

f) If all of the above is "check", follow Siempre La Lunas Eternal Steps of Glory (19 - 34):

Bye,

Peter

Edited by Hawkeye
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a) velocity won´t help much as the Sammich SID per default will just play any note with the configured ADSR envelope, regardless of the velocity. This is not bad at all and sounds C64ish :-).

You can easily have velocity control the volume :) or make it control the amp env sustain, which is one of the techniques used when composing SID tunes on a C64. In fact, velocity can be used to control almost any parameter.. vibrato, PWM or whatever, as Midibox SID v2 will treat velocity data just like any other modulation source

And now, back on topic :D If you want to make the absolute best use of your keyboard, then make sure you get one that handles sysex and NRPN, because the CC scheme only works for the lead engine. Now, if you get a keyboard that supports NRPN, then you can easily control ANY parameter in your SammichSID in ANY of the engines :) Over at ucapps.de you can find the manual for Midibox SID v2, and in the back you will find looong lists of all the synth parameters and their respective NRPN numbers. You then assign these NRPN numbers to the controls on your keyboard, and voila :) you're rocking!

Sysex are of less importance, but allows you to do a lot of other cool things. Most important are the NRPNs if you want to control Drum engine, Multi engine or Bassline engine besides the Lead engine. Lead engine is the only one also supporting CC numbers, so if your keyboard only supports CCs, then all you can control will be Lead engine.

Edited by Flemming
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Thanks for the replies, this is just the sort of info I need! The keyboard i am using is a Commodore unit, originally intended for use with the C64 Sound Expander. It has been modded for its current function using a pic based midi circuit from Tom Scarff. I have also been thinking about taking the harder (but more satisfying) route of adding some control features using a Core module plus AIN and DIN modules. How feasible is this, and do you know of anyone else who has gone down this route and might be able to advise a beginner?

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To make it all go inside the keyboard will ofcourse take some room in there, but also on the front of the keyboard, if you plan to have pots/encoders, switches and stuff.

I'm not familiar wit Tom Scarff, but his PIC hw/sw most likely is not compatible with Midibox platform, so you might end up yanking everything out, only to stuff inside something else (cooler as it may be, ofcourse, since we're now talking Midibox :))

If I were you:

- I'd try to keep my lovely (rare?) Commodore keyboard as intact as possible. Since it lacks some fundamental features like velocity anyways, you'll quickly grow tired of it (imagine you suddenly wants to use it for VSTs/other synths also. An on/off piano won't lend a lot of expression or personal interpretation).

- I'd love a new keyboard, with all the modern features such a beast will provide.

But my preferences might be far from yours :) In your heart, the answer you must search for, young Luke. Therein the truth you will find!

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@Flemming, wow, thanks for the answer, I will definitely have to look into that :-)

@middleman: you´d have these three options

a) mod your existing keyboard with a separate Core8, DIN/AIN and encoders/potentiometers and a MIDI merger to merge external MIDI in with the keyboard MIDI out to go into the MBSID MIDI in.

b) obtain a cheap, ca 10-20 year-old "pure" midi keyboard, without USB, on a second-hand basis. They are not so "hip" anymore nowadays because they don´t have USB or blue LEDs :-), but you can get them for a few $. Then you can mod it as in a) - this will save your nice original commodore unit and provide velocity out.

c) get a keyboard with all the controls you need. This does not need to be brand new, but will likely cost a little bit more, but you save time and money adding a custom controller to it.

Bye,

Peter

Edited by Hawkeye
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Thanks for putting the options so clearly, Peter. What I think I'll do is to go with your option b, but using a breakout box to house the additional controls, so as to preserve the Commodore keyboard as intact as possible (unfortunately it has a couple of additional holes that were made to accomodate the midi out socket :( Never mind. One additional request, would it be best to use the core 8 or the newer LPC 17 module? I would like to stay as up to date as possible, even if it is a little more expensive, and have it in the back of my mind to build more projects in the future.

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Well, the LPC17, while clearly having all hardware advantages on its side, has not yet been used in an official generic MIDIbox controller project.

You would need to do some C programming to enable your features. It would not be difficult to do so (nice programming tutorials are available).

As far as I know, efforts are being made to make a generic MIDIbox controller available for this platform in the foreseeable future.

Using this platform (and using some more programming), you could also drop the PIC MIDImerger and implement it in software (it has 2 MIDI INs and 2 OUTs by default).

The Core8, on the other hand, has available projects (see MIDIbox64 on ucapps.de for example) with parts lists, build descriptions and documentation.

It is nicely configurable and long-time proven.

Your choice :-)

Greets, Peter

Edited by Hawkeye
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OK. Decision made. If I read it right, the core 8 has 8 analogue inputs. That's plenty for me to start with, so no need for an AIN module. A visit to Smash TV tells me I need to choose a device number. Problem: I don't know what Sammitch's device number is (is it the same as channel? in which case it it device 1) Also, is it necessary/desirable to have a lcd display? The display in Sammitch was invaluable when it came to fault finding. If so, which type is easiest for a noob to source and hook up? Sorry for all the basic questions, I'm sure that once I get my sea legs I will be able to return the favor.

Edit: found the page with all the lcd stuff http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/lcd just in case someone else needs it. My eyes are going square reading all the docs. Very educational. This place is like a goldmine for info, but you sure have to do a lot of digging :)

Edited by middleman
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Hi,

afaik, the PIC device number is only relevant, when you are chaining multiple PICs in one unit, e.g. there are 4 PICs in the MB6582 communicating via CAN bus.

I dunno about the 8 direct analog ins of the PIC - it may well work, but probably an investment in an AIN module is not bad at all - you can reuse it in later projects and it is "the way" to normally do analog inputs.

Please also consider a DIN module and the usage of encoders instead of analog potentiometers - for some MIDI applications they are nicer, because they are "stateless".

Greets,

Peter

Edited by Hawkeye
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Cheers guys, that sounds like good counsel. I'm going to place my order with SmashTV on the weekend, then break out the soldering iron when the parts arrive. This place is really excellent, and the combination of hardware, software, DIY and funny sounds is a powerful draw for me. I have another couple of projects in mind, and the advise that I've got on this one is really encouraging for the future. Much appreciated.

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