Hoist1138 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 (edited) So I think im really close to doing a sid dance, but this has me stumped...the facts: Smash tv sid kit Mios is working on the core and sid V2 loads Mios studio recognizes the core Sid 6581 radio shack PSU 15 v 1000 ma (should be fine, see pic) both core and sid boards voltage testing on pins correct (12 volts for sid) heres what happens, if I connect everything and power on, it never lights up. if I take out IC 2 from its socket, it boots up and core is recognized. I looked closely at the board for bridging or shorts between pads and continuity tested, seems fine. I Know the IC 2 is good because if I swap IC 3 to IC 2 socket, same thing happens any insights to this is greatly appreciated, thanks!!! Edited July 29, 2011 by Hoist1138 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antix Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Hi , It seems to me that you insert IC2 reverse side. Take a look at the design and you will see the IC socket reversed from the silkscreen design. If you insert the IC2 the same then here the crap. Let me know Regards Antix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antix Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 logically if you power the IC2 otherwise for too long it will be fired up...so probably you will have to change it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Hi! If it's not what antix said, check for shorts between pins of the ic-socket with a multimeter. With this shematic you can trace, which other parts each pin should be connected to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Antix!!! thanks for spotting the error! I knew a different pair of eyes may find somthing I was messing up on.... So I reversed IC2 it so it was correct and then It launches like normal, getting close now..... thanks! still no sound though out of my mixer, I may have fried the IC when I reversed it, (hopefully not the sid :no: ) I may just order another sid board and make it up so I can have two to test with and be extra carful, Imp, ill try the trace tests just to be sure, thanks a ton guys, im much closer now.. any other suggestions please feel free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antix Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Yes... I think the IC2 is gone :bye: Try with a new IC and probably , if there are no errors , your SID will sound :thumbsup: Regards Antix Edited August 1, 2011 by Antix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I just ordered another sid kit from Smash, so hopefully that will get it to work, this time you can bet I will put the IC # 2 in the correct way round (and the pins into the sockets) :tongue: I let you know what happens and hopefully post the dance of joy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philetaylor Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 IC2 is just a 74HC595 which is available from pretty-much anywhere Mouser has them for less than $0.50 http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/TC74HC595APFM/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvtrnhC60i%252bOn8CARDmBV7K Cheers Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 IC2 is just a 74HC595 which is available from pretty-much anywhere Mouser has them for less than $0.50 http://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Toshiba/TC74HC595APFM/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvtrnhC60i%252bOn8CARDmBV7K Cheers Phil wow thats really helpful, thanks phil, i will also get some of those, I will want to build more than one sid anyway, but nice to have options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 man i thought I had it this time for sure..... So I ordered a new sid kit due to possibly frying the last ones IC 2 by reversing the chip. Soldered the new Smash TV sid kit. checked the +5 voltages in the 3 ICs before stuffing them, fired up mios core boots up great... but still no "initialization" beeps or sounds from the sid maybe its a deeper problem that im just not seeing, Ive redone the sid modual, maybe I should just buy another core and redo that? I've heard the Test Tone app would be a good idea to try, but im not sure how to run that app, i know kind of lame ;( would anyone have any suggestions? thanks again Sidless in Seattle - Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp Posted August 25, 2011 Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 You can upload the Testtone-app with mios studio, just like the SID software. You can get it in the mios8 download section on ucapps.de. No need to buy another core, i think. Btw, i always felt like i learned the most while troubleshooting. :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) You can upload the Testtone-app with mios studio, just like the SID software. You can get it in the mios8 download section on ucapps.de. No need to buy another core, i think. Btw, i always felt like i learned the most while troubleshooting. :thumbsup: I agree, I do want it to work BADLY, but I know this will make me a better synth builder in the long run. Thanks for the nudge, it looks like i use the sysEx tool in MIOS studio, Browse for test tone app, then send it. hopefully this will make a noise! Edited August 25, 2011 by Hoist1138 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2011 (edited) Getting closer, I got the Test Tone App transferred (not with Sys Ex like I incorrectly said in previous post). and it runs, but still no sound, but it looks like the app is running with no issues? as you can see in the pic, i have bypassed my mixer in favor of the radio shack amp, and no sounds. I wonder if the SID(s)(I have two that I have swapped) are all fried? :sad: ( I doubt it) would the test tone app work even if a SID is fried? I agree that the core seems fine, and would rule out an issue in that..... just wondering where to refocus the microscope too......huummmm actually just to rule this out, I know my radio shack PSU says 15 volts at 1000ma, is that good tolerances? or within specs of the SID, I guess as long as the voltage meter reads good on all pins before stuffing the ICs, thats not an issue? Edited August 25, 2011 by Hoist1138 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janis1279 Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Hi Jason, Are you using right filter capacitors C1, C2 for the MOS6581 - 470pF ? On your Sid pcb photos I see different types( not capacitances ). Regards, Janis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosch Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 also make sure you have the correct vreg for the 6581 installed (but even if not, i had 6581 running with 9V and that worked too) maybe check again that the two jacks on the ribbon cable are both oriented in the same direction (to avoid having pins swapped) besides that you could do some continuity checks (without power) between pins of ics that should be connected, maybe there's some weak solder joint somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp Posted August 26, 2011 Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Are you sure you uploaded the testtoneapp? In your picture you run the interconnection test, which doesn't make any sound iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 also make sure you have the correct vreg for the 6581 installed (but even if not, i had 6581 running with 9V and that worked too) maybe check again that the two jacks on the ribbon cable are both oriented in the same direction (to avoid having pins swapped) besides that you could do some continuity checks (without power) between pins of ics that should be connected, maybe there's some weak solder joint somewhere Ive definitely checked the ribbon, its basically a one to one connection if im not mistaken.... clock to clock, vs to vs, there are a few minor difference on TK's markings but they should be paired correctly I have also continuity checked the crimps at both ends. I should have the correct voltage regulator on the Sid 6581: L7812 thanks for the questions. :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) Hi Jason, Are you using right filter capacitors C1, C2 for the MOS6581 - 470pF ? On your Sid pcb photos I see different types( not capacitances ). Regards, Janis I used what Smash TV gave me in the kit, which admittedly, I just "put in" the two caps for C1, and C2, My reading of (non-electrolytic) caps marking values is a bit rusty, but here is a pic up close..... the Sid board on the left is the new attempt the old one on the right is the old one I couldn't get working either (due to flipping one of the IC2 the wrong way.... Edited August 26, 2011 by Hoist1138 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2011 Are you sure you uploaded the testtoneapp? In your picture you run the interconnection test, which doesn't make any sound iirc. thanks imp for the suggestions, I was not aware no sound would come out of the interconnection test. I did upload the testtone app, and it says running on the LCD, but alas no sound. :hmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janis1279 Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 (edited) I used what Smash TV gave me in the kit, which admittedly, I just "put in" the two caps for C1, and C2, My reading of (non-electrolytic) caps marking values is a bit rusty, but here is a pic up close..... the Sid board on the left is the new attempt the old one on the right is the old one I couldn't get working either (due to flipping one of the IC2 the wrong way.... Capacitor value 223 is 22nF which is not right filter capacitor value for the 6581.Try the another pair of capacitors from the first MB Sid pcb. http://www.muzique.com/schem/caps.htm Regards, Janis Edited August 27, 2011 by Janis1279 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Capacitor value 223 is 22nF which is not right filter capacitor value for the 6581.Try the another pair of capacitors from the first MB Sid pcb. http://www.muzique.com/schem/caps.htm Regards, Janis Most excellent Janis, ill give it a try right now (iron is heating up) so weird that those caps were in the kit, either Smash messed the order, or I i put in two wrong caps in wrong spots, which means I would have at least four wrong caps in places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 OK, so I changed out the C1, C2 caps with the ones with the previous SID Smash Kit, still no tone, I uploaded interconnection test and I could trigger the pin A0 on the Sid to read 5 volts! so I know that the Sid is getting the volts, tried to run the test tone app and even tried to get a sound out of the pins directly with a speaker probe, but to no avail, not even a boring test tone, which at this point would sound like heaven. Ive swapped out three SIDs!!! could they all be bad? I have one more I could pry out of a fresh commodore, but my supply runs thin. I wish radio shack carried SIDs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janis1279 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hi, May be a stupid question. Are the both ribon cable conectors FC-10 are oriented in the same direction as a pin1 of the J10 is connected with a pin 1 of the J2, etc ? If you are looking from one end of the cable you can see the both connectors the first pin markers from the left side. regards, Janis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosch Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 yeah that's what i thought too, because it's very easy to do that part wrong and have all pins swapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoist1138 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) holy ^&$%# you guys are right, I never even noticed that there is a "pin one" marking, so allow me to ask a possible stupid, question... could all my issues be affected by this pin one not being lined up right on the crimp ends :huh: Edited August 28, 2011 by Hoist1138 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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