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Need help on LC/MC test


Frank
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Hi guys,

I need some others here who have Cubase SX or Nuendo to help in a verification test. Midibox using MIOS ver 1.3 and Midibox LC version 1.3 and MIDIOX will also be needed.

1. Use midibox LC in mackie control emulation mode and setup up Cubase SX/Nuendo with Mackie Control in remote setup. Assign midi in/midi out ports to mackie control and hook up midibox.

2.Setup a 8 channel audio template and record some fader movements for 30 to 45 secs and loop it to cycle playback.

3. Launch Midiox and use it to monitor incoming midi port of your computer. Monitor the looped playback for 5 minutes. During this time do not touch any faders, buttons or encoders on midibox LC

Do you get intermittent random data displayed on Midiox input monitor? Do you also get Pitchbend data displayed by Midiox?

For Cubase SX/Nuendo any incoming Pitcbend data that is received while it is playing back recorded fader automation data causes the faders to jerk, jump or glitch very fast. Sometimes the faders get stuck in mid travel for awhile and later recovers again. Other software like Logic may be internally blocking incoming fader data while it is playing back recorded fader data until a  touch sensor is activated.

Any help would be much appreciated since its been some months of trying everything to overcome this fader problem with Steinberg products. Its not because i'm using a Panasonic fader cos its unrelated to the already known poor mechanical performance compared to Alps.

Thanks & Peace

Frank

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I recently posted a list of things somewhere on the forum (will look later, to find it again) on how to minimise noise, etc, which will cause erratic behaviour like this. Hopefully it will be fixed when Thorsten has the time to write the new driver soon.

 basically, the list included mains filter, star earth, thick wires for earth currents, (and low resistance) and adding in a few caps here and there. (.1uF) and there were probably other things too. As well as cleaning the flux off the boards (oops, I haven't done that yet!) Also ferrite beads on the CV's. (from Pots)

do a search on "star" , and limit it to 3 weeks back...

You are using alps?

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Has the LC/MC got that simulated 'touch' mode that Thorsten invented? (for panasonics) If you have it on, maybe try turning it off...

Apart from that, have you tried to minimise interference with the methods I suggested?

Sometimes my faders stop in the wrong spot, or don't move at all(I'm using logic), and I switch banks and go back again, and it returns to the correct on-screen position.

some settings of the Analogue (AIN) deadband, MF speed and MF deadband can cause juddering effects.

I had no luck at all with mios 1.3, and went back to 1.2. Have you tried 1.2 yet?

TK, maybe there needs to be an option to increase the delay from when the fader detects/sends data to the application, between the time that the fader position is updated by the data into the midibox, and the time that the midibox sends fader movement data to the application? :-/

Frank, I hope you get some success soon, I don't have SX or nuendo, but I may try your experiment with the demo in my holidays in one week!

anyway, we will have a new panasonic driver soon!  ;D

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Hi Steven_C,

Thanks for the reply. I've made 4 different core boards with 4 different layouts and tried all manner of grounding, power schemes and filtering capacitors but still no go with the faders. I tried it on my friend's Logic Platinum same problems with fader data being sent while playing back automation.

I tried with  hardware touch sensor set off but where do i set software touch sensor off?.

The problems you experienced with your fader is also what i experience with my setup. I do remember earlier in the year i had a working fader setup so maybe i should check out MIOS V1.2 again. Are you having better performance with MIOS v1.2 ?

Peace

Frank

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Hey Frank,

whoa... 4 different board setups... Did you redesign the PCB?

Yes, 1.2 was much better... the accelleration adjustment seemed to make things worse, in 1.3. Maybe it is nearing the limit of the processing speed the pic can handle, without making errors... I wonder if there is anything external which could cause errors... quality of the crystal, etc??

actually, I think the default for software touch sensor is off, if it is even implemented in LC/MC at all.

does such behaviour occur if the faders are set to read?

BTW, a while back, I noticed that if only 4 of the sliders were moving, that errors were much less than with 8 moving, so I swapped to a bigger power supply, in case the pic was running out of 'juice', causing errors.

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Hi Steve_C,

No i'm using my own vectorboards, cos i prefer to do eveything by myself. The more problems you overcome the more you enjoy the project  ;D. Are you using one of the prefab cores? , if you are and have the time you could also use Logic to help me verify the problem. All you need to do is have 1 channel of fader automation for 8 bars and loop the playback. (audio on the track is not needed). Sent the output from Logic into MidiboxLC and sent the output of MidiboxLC into midiox and monitor it for intermittent pitchbend data (E0 xx xx ). By right if Logic's automation is in read mode, midibox should move its fader but not output any pitcbend data.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Peace

Frank

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I will try to find time to test it this week, but I am very busy (last week of college until holidays) and I'm in the process of putting my home studio back together, after weeks of soundcard problems at my friend's place (I think it was the cheap connectors, I wish I could afford neutrik!) Though I may get to try it in the next day or two, hopefully.

Yes, I know that it shouldn't send anything from the faders in read mode, that's why I asked! (to see if the errors are caused elsewhere, try to 'isolate' the problem)

I admire your skill with the vectorboards!

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Here some beta stuff:

http://www.ucapps.de/tmp/mios_v1_3b4.syx.zip - a beta release of MIOS which works much better with Panasonic faders (thanks again to Steve who sent me 3 faders for testing!). I've reduced the speed dynamic range so that the motors are driven slower, but much more precisely. The modification works also with Alps, therefore it isn't require to set a "Panasonic" flag.

Required setup:

  • Panasonic faders: 8V, CaliUp/Down: 0x0c
  • Alps faders: 8V, CaliUp/Down: 0x0e

I've also fixed the problem described by Steve in an earlier posting, that the faders sometimes don't reach the zero position. Zero position is now reached when the fader value is less than the AIN deadband value

http://www.ucapps.de/mios/midibox_lc_v1_3b.zip provides now three different touch sensor modes:

;; following setting configures the touch sensor behaviour. The touch sensors of the motorfaders
;; have to be assigned to the DIN pins in lc_io_tables.inc - the appr. IDs are:
;; ID_FADER_TOUCH_CHN1, ID_FADER_TOUCH_CHN2, ... ID_FADER_TOUCH_CHN8 (8 sensors)
;; If the master fader option is used, the ID is ID_FADER_TOUCH_MASTER
;; 
;; TOUCH_SENSOR_MODE EQU 0: touch sensor events (pressed/depressed) be forwarded to the host program
;;                          like specified in the Logic/Mackie Control specification
;; TOUCH_SENSOR_MODE EQU 1: like mode 0, but additionaly the sensors will be suspended via MIOS, so
;;                          that they are not moved so long as the touch sensor is pressed
;; TOUCH_SENSOR_MODE EQU 2: like mode 0+1, additionally no fader move (PitchBender event) will be
;;                          sent when the touch sensor is not pressed.
;; 
;; The mode "1" by default to avoid circular troubleshooting requests in the MIDIbox forum from people
;; who don't read this information before starting the application.
;; Mode "2" should be the prefered setting if your touch sensors are working properly
TOUCH_SENSOR_MODE EQU 1

Hope that this solves all problems.

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Hi TK,

You're the man ;D. My problem is solved with your new Touch sensor Mode 2. Taking into account the low quality and low cost of the Panasonics, i'm really happy with the performance of my setup now. If i want  better than this i would have to pony up cash for the ALPS.

So once again THANK YOU, THANK YOU & THANK YOU.

Steve_C, i guess theres no need to do the verification, thank you for your help too ;)

Peace

Frank

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so far, mine is still poor. Maybe it will be good with touch mode 2, but activeperl isn't working for me :'(

I installed activeperl, put the main file I generated in mplab into the bin folder, put the 'convert' file into the bin folder too, and double clicked on the "convert" file, but nothing happens. Any ideas?

...Steve

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Hey Steve...

I always run the perl script manually from the dos prompt, ie:

e:\perl\bin>perl hex2syx.pl main.hex

then press enter, it makes the syx file...blah blah blah u know the rest :)

1 thing, with this latest beta LC f/w i cudnt build a hex file in the mplab app - it kept failing, even without editing any files. I had to use the standalone exe app...

HTH

Dan

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Hey,

Dan/Ian/Frank,

could one of you guys please make a .syx for me, of the new LC application, with everything standard, except for the touch sensor option (make it 2, instead of 0, please!)

After 6 months or so of trying, I finally have hope that it may work, so please help so I can get some sleep! ;)

Thanks again TK for all the hard work.

steve

Edited by Steven_C
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SOOO Relieved now, I almost cried!

THANKS TK :)

Now I can concentrate on using this baby to make music :)

BTW, I like Frank used this new mode ;)

TK, if you lived in Australia, I would be taking you to the pub right now!

BTW, Dan, just let me know what features you want enabled, and I'll make the .syx file for you, until you find out what is wrong. Or email me a modified text file of the main.asm file, or even a few variations if you want. ;)

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Hey guys,

You dont need to use  perl script from the Dos prompt. In all the LC firmware releases after downloading, extract the zip file and you'll find in the folder "convert.bat". Just double click this and it'll convert the main.hex into main.syx automatically for you.

Peace

Frank

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TK... Let me know if you ever come to Australia!

Frank... Perl was acting wierd last night...

I installed active perl, and it wouldn't work, even clicking on the convert file wouldn't work... So I installed perl as well, and that wouldn't work either... So I tried Dan's suggestion, and that didn't work... So I tried active perl again, and.......... It worked! and continued to work after... Just my computer showing it's personality again!!

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