[JRock]

Here's my new Jam!
MBFM for the drums; Oohh so Crunchy!
(a sprinkle of S900 as well)

MBCV Dictating the BassLine...
Hope you like it

Listen on Soundcloud.com

Hmmm...
Not playing for me...
The player is showing up and loading though. If anybody can't get it to play, please post and I'll see what I can do to fix it.

This post has been edited by JRock: 06 January 2012 - 13:47

[m00dawg]

Song is awesome! You mentioned the MBCV but what is it controlling? Can you elaborate there? Harmonies are really good too!

I do have to make some suggestions on the vocals though. Your vocals are way too drowned out and meek. EQ should help with the drowned out bit, but the meek part is a function of your inflection and volume. It sounds like you were nervous when you recorded the vocals. I say that because my first vocals sounded similar and I was nervous about doing vocals with other people in the house. If you're gonna do vocals, you just gotta go for it.

And going for it means projecting, and getting past the being embarrassed about doing them, particularly on the bad cuts. You gotta put it out there and, as a result, there's gonna be some bad cuts. Just keep doing them until you get them right, but don't be shy about it.

That's just a guess anyway since I had to do the same thing. Apart from that, using some dynamic range compression on the vocal track can help a bit as well.

Not trying to berate you, your vocals, or the song, but just trying to provide suggestion. The vocals have lots of potential, the harmonies are great, the synth lead after them also fantastic. It's a good song and if you can get the vocals fixed up a bit, it will be a great song.

[Imp]

Man, i envy your talent.... I think the unpolished vocals add a lot of character. The FM doesn't sound polished either, so they fit in the concept.

This post has been edited by Imp: 06 January 2012 - 15:17

[JRock]

Thanks

I appreciate the feedback.

Yeah. I originally went with a more ballsy, aggressive take, that's my go to vox... Singing Punk and Metal for years... I have no problem belting it out.

It didn't fit right though. It was too heavy. It was too throaty. It wasn't spacy enough. I've been working on stripping all the extraneous vocal crutches out of my takes lately - ie: vibrato, cliche inflections, breathiness, trying to cut my thick dialect out as much as possible... I listen to takes with that stuff and it feels affected to me.... and just burn it down to the essence and let the higher, headier stuff through. Still sounds too throaty to me. Just experimenting with new stuff and trying to grow a little bit.

It could use some Eq. I just sample the Vox straight in to my MPC and can't be bothered with fiddling around with them too much. Sheer laziness
Not quite in tune? Double it! ;)
I'm always worried If I fiddle around with it too long I'll either deaden the song or lose interest and it'll be just another song in the unfinished bin.

MBCV is controlling the Synth playing the triplet Bassline. The 1V/Oct and the Gates and triggers. I just built a new synth and I was putting it through it's paces to make sure everything works properly and the I came up with the Bass Line and the rest just coalesced from there.

[m00dawg]

The bassline sounds awesome! In terms of vocals, if you were going for the more subdued style, it could just be a case of mic choice or placement? I agree going punk on this one would probably be over the top They just don't pop like they should - I'm having trouble hearing the lyrics for instance. So perhaps you just need to bump up the levels a bit with some EQ changes. That could do the trick.

[JRock]

Thanks Imp!

I appreciate it



They're a little blurry cause I tripled'em maybe?
(Quadrupled and Quintupled at the harmony parts)

[m00dawg]

JRock, on 06 January 2012 - 15:28, said:

They're a little blurry cause I tripled'em maybe?
(Quadrupled and Quintupled at the harmony parts)

The vocals? Possibly but I think that can be corrected. I actually like that effect because it's sort of chorusey in places and plus the harmony is awesome. Maybe panning a bit more aggressively? If you can, a vocal compressor can probably do a lot as well. I'm often surprised how much compressors help things and usually try to avoid using them (Loudness Wars being what they are) but they are valid and important uses.

Beyond that, I think if you dropped the lows a bit, tried touching the mids just to see, and then increased their volume it may help. They sort of climb on top of the bassline a bit and I think that might be part of the issue.

Again sorry if I'm over-analyzing - you didn't ask for a critique but I had my mastering engineer hat on so it just sort of popped out of my mouth

This is my favorite track you've posted on the forums by the way, so perhaps that's another reason I have so many comments

[JRock]

Coming form you Mr. mOOdawg I know it's constructive and I appreciate the candor
I'm grateful for well intentioned feedback from knowledgeable people. I definitely put it in my pipe and smoke on it a while ;)

I do need to practice my compression a little more. I am not that familiar with when, why and how to use it effectively, so I am hesitant. I burn through my songs so fast so as to get them done before I lose interest or get distracted that I don't get much opportunity to try this and try that. I need to set some time aside dedicated to practice.

It doesn't help that I don't have a DAW. I just sequence everything on my MPC and render it down to a stereo track.

[m00dawg]

JRock, on 06 January 2012 - 16:03, said:

Coming form you Mr. mOOdawg I know it's constructive and I appreciate the candor
I'm grateful for well intentioned feedback from knowledgeable people. I definitely put it in my pipe and smoke on it a while ;)

I do need to practice my compression a little more. I am not that familiar with when, why and how to use it effectively, so I am hesitant. I burn through my songs so fast so as to get them done before I lose interest or get distracted that I don't get much opportunity to try this and try that. I need to set some time aside dedicated to practice.

It doesn't help that I don't have a DAW. I just sequence everything on my MPC and render it down to a stereo track.

A compressor is just decreasing the variance in volume, typically above a volume threshold. Ableton Live's compressor visually shows what's happening fairly well. I've attached a screeny of a compressor I used for vocals. No compression would have been a 45 degree line with volume being plotted on the line from left to right. So, where the line bends below 45 degrees is where you are starting to compress the volume. The effect is easy to see visually - the variances in volume are decreased which is done via gain reduction (the GR bar on the right of the graph will kick in so you can see how much reduction is taking place).

Since you are reducing gain over the compressed part, you have to often kick the gain back up to get the volume to where it needs to be. If you do it too much, you need to put a limiter on the end, which is just another gain reducer. It, however, prevents hard clipping so you can increase the volume a lot. This is one potential gotcha with destroying dynamic range because if you have to do this a lot, it means you're over-compressing most likely and removing clarity and richness from the audio.r source.

Hopefully that makes a bit of sense. Heck doing a quick video of the compressor in action may help explain it better but hopefully you get the idea.

It's very easy to do with a DAW, with the downside being that you can probably achieve better results in the analog domain over the digital one. The price you pay for convenience and cost Most professional mastering studios likely use analog compressors, along side tons of expensive gear That said, you can achieve some very good results in a DAW.

Not suggesting you drop what you're doing and go get a DAW though. The most important thing is, ultimately, the music, not the mix so if you're happy with your MPC, keep doing what you're doin' as clearly it seems to be working. If you do want to experiment around on the cheap, check out Reaper as it's a very nice and affordable (free, in most cases) conventional DAW.

Attached File(s)

•  Screen Shot 2012-01-06 at 9.09.24 AM.png (25.99K)
  Number of downloads: 0

[JRock]

Thank You
That's very helpful.
Thanks for your time.

My brother just sent me an email saying the same thing about need some compression/limiting on the Vox.

I have Reaper, but my only computer is a netbook and once I have more than one track the latency is Crazy... Like 1 second! Even with Midi.
I'll get around to gettin' there by the time computers are obsolete and we just pipe our thoughts directly on to the cloud

BTW I wrote out the lyrics in the description box in case you're interested.

This post has been edited by JRock: 06 January 2012 - 16:39

[Hawkeye]

Epic song, my friend!
Cool lyrics :-)

Have a great new year!
Peter

PS: You could always invest in a standalone compressor, that might help for the vocals, me also doesn´t like using a DAW, so +1 to your approach.

This post has been edited by Hawkeye: 06 January 2012 - 16:48

[m00dawg]

Wow those lyrics are awesome! Nice job!

[JRock]

Thanks
Happy New Year to you as well.

I have a DBX 166XL. It's pretty grimey! I like it a lot... I don't use it that often though because I'm so unfamiliar with it. I even have it hooked up so I can sidechain stuff without repatching, and I still don't use it. Sounds like I need to hook my mic in to it. That's the main advice I get "compress your VOX". It's something I'll be working on for 2012.

[m00dawg]

Yes indeed the DBX should help with that. It looks to be analog so you will end up with better results than you can digitally (potentially, anyway). Just takes some practice with a box like that and it might be easier to bounce to it until you find the levels you like before you go hooking your mic directly in. That way you won't have to worry about your own vocal takes AND compression at the same tim

[kristal=]

no download available... i dislike pressing the replay button!

[JRock]

Sorry Mr. kristal=.
You're gonna have to wait till I get the I's dotted and the T's crossed for downloadability.
If you're really interested PM me and I'll get you your very own copy