igi Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hi ALL! I'm working on MIDIBOX SID DARK MATTER sound extension module. (Any similarity with Dark energy is just coincidence) This is actually controlling two CEM3394 with MB SID V2 via Aout module and outputs on J5.(for wave select) Almost finished and thanks to TK's great SC and Aout's working great. :frantics: But there is one problem. I try to use envelope generator 1 or 2 for controlling VCA via level, but if I set EG depth to full (128) voltage is not working on full range.(0-5V). If I control level with ext.controller then I can get voltage from 0 to 5V.(like it should) Should EG work on full range, or I miss something (again)??? :getlost: PW, Cut off, reso... works fine with full range. Thanx in advance and Best regards,IGI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technobreath Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Daaark matta! Nice - love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Wowwww.... I have been wanting to do exactly what you're doing for a long time. I have a Sequential Six-Trak and I think the 3394's sound so nice, but its Z80-based implementation is so limiting by today's standards - slow envelopes and coarse resolution on controls. I could check the voltages on the VCA pins if you like to figure out what the chips are getting in the Six-Trak. Might take me a few days to get to it though, so let me know! Edited March 9, 2012 by nebula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I have made a similar box with PSU, 4xAOUT_NG boards, 4xSSM2044 boards and 2xSSM2154 boards and experience the same problem. I have intended to ask about this too, but you beat me to it. I can change VCA level ful range via level setting in the MB SID, but if I route EG 1 or 2 to level and set it to full depth, I still cannot get full range amplitude modulation. I don't remember if I have tried this with the LFOs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igi Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) HI! @nebula: VCA voltage for CEM3394 is 0 to 4V. Problem is not CEM, but voltage from Aout. Yes, CEM sound is really nice :thumbsup: I also have some problem with pitch voltage stability. (not because MBSID) @strophlex: same problem with LFO's, but EG full voltage range for VCA is must. I cannot live without it. :wacko: We still waiting for TK!(I think :) Best regards, IGI Edited March 10, 2012 by igi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macron Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Wow! I have the similar problem with CEM3379 in my MBSID V2. Perfect control (I use AOUT modul) VCF section (cut off and resonance control is ok), but problem with control of VCA section of 3379. I can change VCA voltage via menu parameter "volume", but I also try to route EG on VCA via matrux - no result :poke: . Whats wrong? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Wow! I have the similar problem with CEM3379 in my MBSID V2. Perfect control (I use AOUT modul) VCF section (cut off and resonance control is ok), but problem with control of VCA section of 3379. I can change VCA voltage via menu parameter "volume", but I also try to route EG on VCA via matrux - no result :poke: . Whats wrong? :unsure: If you don't get anything out the VCA, did you set the depth parameter of the EG or LFO? Anyway it seems the output range of modulation of volume if not as it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 There are two depth parameters: one for the ENV depth, another for the modulation depth (in the modulation matrix). Both are set to 50% by default - I guess that you forgot to set the modulation depth to 100% (128)? /Edit 2013-11-03: I forgot to mention, that in the modulation path EG1 also has to be defined as a second Source for the 1+2 operation. More infos here: Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igi Posted March 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 HI! I have MBSID almost a year now, but I didn't know that I can adjust modulation depth. :whistle: (please, don't call me stupid :)) This box is really full of nice surprises! I can't test right now, but if TK say so, then should work. :thumbsup: I will report next week about results. TK, many thanks for your support!!! Best Regards, IGI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Argh... I cannot get this to work. Again, CFG -> VOL works perfectly. If i set an external filter (After SID but before VCA) in resonance I can adjust the volume with this setting, so I am 100% sure the VOL setting is forwarded via AOUT to the VCA. Then, in the modulation matrix, I assign one modulation source to VOL and set the depth param of both the EG/LFO and the modulation to 127. I doesn't matter if I use EG or LFO, same result. Only about 50% modulation range. Only half range if I use negative depth too. There must be some setting I am missing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julienvoirin Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 AOUT NG design is buggy in dual mod. you can't have +/- 5V but only the half : it's mentioned in the forum somewhere but i can't find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuriken Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 AOUT NG design is buggy in dual mod. you can't have +/- 5V but only the half : it's mentioned in the forum somewhere but i can't find It's :aww: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted March 24, 2012 Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 I am pretty sure the AOUT channel for the VCA module is configured in unipolar mode plus it works fine when controlled from the CFG -> VOL menu. I don't think it is that module. It must be something in the software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igi Posted March 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2012 Hi! At least I foud some time to test Aout module, but with same results like Strophlex. I get 0 to 6,1 V with external controller volume control or with "Knob assigement to volume. With EG or LFO i get just 0 to 3,02V. (All depth's set to full (127)) So, problem is not in Aout or AoutNG module, but I also think in software. Best regards, IGI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igi Posted April 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2012 HI! Same problem also with V2_040 and AoutLC. Best regards, IGI :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strophlex Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrabikus Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I have the same problem as igi and strophlex. AOUT_NG + CEM 3379 VCF/VCA. Did you guys solve it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 I checked this today, and found the reason: my initial hint to increase the MP depth wasn't complete! I added the new topics [19] and [20] to the "known issues" page to inform everybody about the intended usage of the modulation matrix: -> http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual_ki.html 19] An envelope doesn't sweep through the whole value range: yes, this is true if only the ENV depth is set to maximum level (+127). With the default configuration of the modulation matrix, this will result into a quarter of the available value range. E.g. if the filter cutoff is set to 0, ENV depth set to 127, the filter will only sweep between 0%..25%. Same for volume. In order to sweep through the whole range, the modulation path parameters have to be changed: enter the MOD page select MOD 1 (if not already done) for EG1 you will notice, that EG1 is only assigned to Sr1 - assign it also to Sr2, and ensure that the "1+2" operator is selected -> this will double the ENV level in addition, set the Depth parameter of the modulation path to 127 -> this will double the MP level As the result, you will get an envelope which sweeps through the whole value range from 0% to 100% [20] The AOUT channel is always at maximum level when the V2A option is used: because the volume parameter in the CFG page sets the offset for this AOUT routing option. Change the volume to 0 to set the offset to 0V (similar to CutOff) Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrabikus Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) AOUT_NG is calibrated to unipolar 0-5V range. Changing Volume 0-127 sweeps aout volume channels from 0 to 5v. All 8 AOUT voltages can be changed from 0 to 5v with EXT menu. When i'm routing ENV2 to volume as on picture i have next behavior: After note on Volume CV rises to 4.37v and remains constant after note off. It can be changed it with Sustain level in 1.86-4.37V range, also with Envelope depth [0-127] in the same range. So VCA stays silent only untill some notes played. Edited November 3, 2013 by Schrabikus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrabikus Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 (edited) Seems like sustain value stays routed to volume after note off. Edited November 3, 2013 by Schrabikus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 I guess that you mean, that this only happens when the "Play" button is toggled in the Ctrlr editor or on the CS. But that the envelope works correctly when MIDI notes are played, right? Here is a new version which should fix the problem with the "Play" button: http://www.ucapps.de/mios/midibox_sid_v2_044_pre1.zip Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrabikus Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Yes! Just fugured it out. Toggling "Play" don't send note off. But there's still some volume offset. With MP depth set to 32 I can get 0V Volume voltage. But it rises only to 2.5V with envelope triggered. And 1.86-4.37V range with MP depth 127. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 - are you using the new v2_044_pre1 firmware that I linked in the posting above? - did you configure the MP as described in topic [19] here: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual_ki.html ? Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrabikus Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 1.Yes. 2.Yes I got 0-4.97V voltage swing with all as you described, but MP depth set to 1 instead of 127. :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 I just doublechecked your snapshot. Of course: you've assigned the MP output to the volume target twice. One time as generic Target1 and Target2 (which is normally not required), and then again with the "hardwired" targets Vol1 and Vol2 Just remove the Volume destination from Target1 and Target2 Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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