Suggestions needed for midi syncing hardware and software

[Ser_Yo]

Hello!

I am not (yet) a DIY maker, but I knew this forum thanks to some comments on Mutable Instruments Forum, and I´m totally impressed by what I see here.

I am going to build a Shruthi-1 soon so I suppose that once in the DIY world, I will come here more often :)

But in this moment I just had some doubts about midi syncing and I considered interesting to ask to midi experts here.

I am setting up a setup (uhm, that was redundant) for live looping experimental improvisational performances.

My midi hardwares:

-Elektron Octatrack (needs to be set as Master in order to loop well)

-Kaoss Pad 3

-Electribe EMX1

-Waldorf Blofeld Desktop

-Shruthi-1 SMR4MK2 (coming soon)

I will also use Ableton Live Suite 8 with Max4Live, as a live looper, running in a Windows7 notebook where I am going to put a SSD disk and expand RAM at 4gb or 8 depending on the price I find (CPU is a P6200 dual core).

My audio interface is a Roland Quad Capture ("QUAD-CAPTURE incorporates a high-performance crystal master clock. By syncing the digital circuitry, driver, and DAW program to this clock, jitter and latency are reduced to a minimum").

My Midi controllers:

-Behringer FCB1010 with UnO Chip

-Behringer BCR2000

-Novation Impulse 49 (with built in arpeggiator)

-Novation Remote ZERO SL Mk2

And if all goes well I am getting a DIY Theremin by Elettrorama with Moduino-so midi out implementation.

Well, I am totally new to music, I just always wanted to make music and now I felt it was the good moment to change life.

But, for example, I did not even think that I could need to sync all this.

Now in Elektron Forum I read that there are often problems of syncing between Octatrack and Ableton.

And I started to fear, "how will I sync all this!?".

I was said "you need an innerclock System product". They look wonderful, but they are so expensive!

I would like to ask you, what would you consider the most effective and as cheap as possible syncing solution?

Cheers and super thanks!

Ser

Edited October 5, 2012 by Ser_Yo

[smokestacksproductions]

That octatrack is not cheap either, if it's not able to sync properly in slave mode I would send it back!

but to answer your question, there is a midibox project called "clockbox"

you'll find it in the wiki

[Ser_Yo]

Nope, the OT is a must for me.

It can sync slaved very well, at least while used as sampler/sequencer.

But when you use its looper, the OT must be Master because it needs very precise sample accuracy for the looper to work together with the OT's timestretch algorythm...

Thanks for the tip. But no info on the wiki.Only this but does not explain how does it work.

I have also been suggested the gm5x5x5 so to avoid a long chain of devices, but rather send the midi clock from the OT to Ableton and then have it redistributed to the 5 outs of the GM.

Do you know if that is possible?

I also see the Midi Router... But I suppose the GM5x5x5 is the cheapest of all?

I get lost in this site, I cannot even understand how to order, and if the order includes all what I need (chip, board, components) or not.

Thanks!

Edited October 21, 2012 by Ser_Yo

[TK.]

I have also been suggested the gm5x5x5 so to avoid a long chain of devices, but rather send the midi clock from the OT to Ableton and then have it redistributed to the 5 outs of the GM.

Do you know if that is possible?

Yes, this should be possible.

It isn't the optimum solution, but due to the limitations of the OT (no MIDI clock slave mode if used as looper), it has to be accepted.

I also see the Midi Router... But I suppose the GM5x5x5 is the cheapest of all?

Definitely yes!

I get lost in this site, I cannot even understand how to order, and if the order includes all what I need (chip, board, components) or not.

Since we are hobbyists and doing this during our sparetime, we don't assemble complete kits.

Procedure:

- Send me a PM to order the GM5 chip, please take the specified form which can be found at the bottom of this page: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=tk_gm5_bulkorder

- Send Nils a PM to order the GM5x5x5 PCB

- order the remaining components at your favorite electronic shop, here the BOM: http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=gm5x5x5

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Ser_Yo]

It isn't the optimum solution, but due to the limitations of the OT (no MIDI clock slave mode if used as looper), it has to be accepted.

Hello Thorsten,

thanks for the answer.

Do you have some other solution in mind or do you mean that this could maybe be the best (given the OT limitation)?

Could you say a few words about the clockbox? Apart for its additional features, compared to the gm5 would it be a better solution for my main sync concern?

I am also concerned with something else: I do not have to divide only the midi clock, but also other midi commands, because for example I will have to use the midi keyboard to control at least 3 things (shruthi-1, blofeld, Ableton's synths) and maybe also to play chromatically the OT. I suppose, but I am not sure, that I will be able to send the midi notes via usb to the computer and then route them to the GM5 to divide them among the different outs. But I could also send the notes via midi to the midi interface. Can you confirm that the GM5 (and/or clockbox) could do that too?

Btw, how would this routing happen? Will I need some special program?

Thanks again for the help!

Edited October 21, 2012 by Ser_Yo

[TK.]

I guess that you mean "distribute" or "route" instead of divide.

The clockbox can only act as a MIDI clock master, and it doesn't route incoming events to the MIDI outs -> no go.

And the GM5 has no integrated MIDI router, which means that MIDI events have to be routed by your PC based application, which will add (a small amount of) latency. Let's say ca. 5 mS

The routing could be done from Live (I guess... I'm a Logic user)

To give you an alternative solution:

personally I would prefer to use a MBHP_CORE_LPC17 module with one of the major MIOS32 based firmwares, such as MIDIO128.

You are not interested on the controller functions... but you will like the integrated MIDI router with up to 16 nodes.

With each node you can define a forwarding path from a MIDI input to a MIDI output. You can even filter and modify MIDI channels.

4 USB IOs and 4 MIDI IOs are available... and OSC for the case that you want to do some ethernet experiments ;-)

The LCD based control surface isn't required, since the device can also be configured from the MIOS terminal.

In other words: the MBHP_CORE_LPC17 module would be sufficient for your purposes.

+ the MIDI port extension for two additional MIDI IOs: http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_core_lpc17_midi3_midi4_extension.pdf (no PCB available, you have to build it on veroboard)

Advantage of this solution: it even works standalone without a computer, and the USB-MIDI performance is comparable to a GM5.

Disadvantage: a bit more complex to build

Best Regards, Thorsten.

[Ser_Yo]

Oh, sorry Thorsten, I was 100% sure that I had already answered to your post.

For routing (yes that's what I meant) the incoming midi messages on a GM5x5x5 to its midi out ports I have been suggested the midi-ox.

So, you say that with this device I would have 4 midi I/O and 4 USB? I see only one USB.

Anyway, 8 midi I/O plus one USB and no latency from the use of a routing software sounds good, but it seems quite difficult to build...

You say that the latency which midi-ox could add with the not integrated routing make the GM5x5x5 a deal breaker for my purposes?

[TK.]

So, you say that with this device I would have 4 midi I/O and 4 USB? I see only one USB.

When you connect the USB cable, you will see 4 MIDI interfaces on your PC (when you connect the USB cable on a GM5, you will see 5 MIDI interfaces)

You say that the latency which midi-ox could add with the not integrated routing make the GM5x5x5 a deal breaker for my purposes?

Not really.

And: I don't know the current capabilities of Live, but if it allows to forward MIDI streams as well, I would use this DAW instead of MIDI-Ox, because I guess that each application which will connect to a MIDI interface will add (a small amount of) latency, resp. CPU performance. Because each application has to be notified whenever new MIDI data is received.

Best Regards, Thorsten.