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Starting The SID Project


Scifo

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Hey guys. I'm new to the forum.

I have two Commodore 64C here at home and am strongly thinking about building a Midibox Sid together with my father (who's an engineer). I am ready to put some money into this project.

I have some basic questions that I'm sure u guys can help me with.

1. Since I already have a C64C, do you recommend me to use that as a base?

2. I don't know if I really need the full 8-SIDchip version (MB6852), so I was thinking of building a Stereo SID. Do you recommend me to still build the 6852 and start off with the 2 SIDchips I already have, and then add more SIDchips later? If the 6852 has a much more complicated core build, I suppose I stick with the Stereo SID setup.

3. The things I need to order, are these things still available? It seems like most MBs were built some years ago. I just wanna make sure that the project is still reachable when it comes to ordering the necessary items.

4. Can I look at both ucapps.de and mb6582.org for reliable sources or should I stick with one of them?

Before I get into more detailed questions about the build, I would very much appreciate to get some personal contacts within this forum as some sort of mentor. So please stick with me and my questions. I realize that this is a big project.

Looking forward to hear from you guys.

Best regards

Scifo

Helsinki, Finland

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hi, welcome!

you actually only need the SID chips and if they work that's a great start.

if you decide for the MB6582 you can also use the power supply and the power switch for example.

all parts besides sids are easily available and no problem getting them.

here's some info about the MB6582:

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_6582

unless you have a sammichSID this is the easiest (albeit large) solution in terms of wiring.

and if you think you might like it so much that you probably want more voices, just do it. you can build it complete and just stuff the one stereo part and add the other ICs later.

here are complete base board kits (and boards) (pos 70 and 72) available, encoders and other individual parts like preprogrammed PICs too:

http://www.avishowtech.com/buy.html

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Hi Rosch, thanx for the quick reply.

I just had a conversation with my father on Skype and he is up for this project, so here we go. He's more into oldschool tube and stuff, but he's great at soldering and works well with electronics. We're going for the 6582. Decided.

I don't have a sammichSID.

My both 8580 chips are working so I will aim for the PSU Option A (only 9v).

1. Is SmashTV the best option even for European costumers?

2. Should the MB-6582 Baseboard Parts Kit include the optional PIC? I'll order the 70 and 72 tomorrow. Anything else I need from SmashTV while ordering from him?

/Scifo

Edited by Scifo
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Hi and welcome!

Great choice with the MB6582!

Tim/SmashTV definitely is the right person to order from - and you should get the MB6582 PCB set (CS + baseboard) plus the Baseboard kit + PICs.

Total cost, when fully built (including eight 8580s) will be approximately around 550-700€, including taxes.

Many greetings!

Peter

Edited by Hawkeye
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Hi Scifo,

AFAIK SmashTV is the only one offering the MB6582 PCBs. You can buy a part kit from him as well or just the PCBs, and then order the parts in europe, for example from Reichelt (they should have everything you need). If you are afraid of import taxes Smash offers a special low value order procedure for PCBs only, but I don't know if the MB6582 PCBs are part of this deal, look at his shop for more details.

Good luck building!

P.S.

Keep an eye on the fleamarket over here for additional stuff you might need, such as LCD, PacTec PT-10 case, and a set of panels for the PT-10 case.

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If you are afraid of import taxes Smash offers a special low value order procedure for PCBs only, but I don't know if the MB6582 PCBs are part of this deal, look at his shop for more details.

Keep an eye on the fleamarket over here for additional stuff you might need, such as LCD, PacTec PT-10 case, and a set of panels for the PT-10 case.

Hey NorthernLightX, thanx for the tips.

I checked SmashTV's low value order and unfortunately the boards I need (art nr 72 and 70) are not included in that list. I'll order these tomorrow.

The LCD; I've seen some of them on ebay already, so that is probably not so difficult to find. It's a 4x20, right?

The PT-10 case, is that something I can find here in Europe or is PacTec located in the US?

The fleamarket you mentioned, is that a fleamarket thread here on the forum?

Thanx again, folks, for helping us getting started.

/Scifo

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The LCD; I've seen some of them on ebay already, so that is probably not so difficult to find. It's a 4x20, right?

Yes.

The PT-10 case, is that something I can find here in Europe or is PacTec located in the US?

Not sure, but there is the possibility to build a case in the SammichSID style, with laser-cut panels from Ponoko or one of their sister companies. One such example is

The fleamarket you mentioned, is that a fleamarket thread here on the forum?

Yes.

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This is the kind of LCD I need, right?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x20-Standard-Parallel-Interface-Lcd-Price-for-1-Each-/390463027881?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item5ae968faa9&_uhb=1

Here I've found a Swedish seller. One of the LCD says "Reflective" in the description, and the other one doesn't. Hints?

http://se.farnell.com/midas/prl/results/6

Edited by Scifo
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Moar hints: The Satistronics are cheap and cheerful. Otherwise, if you got money to spend try an Optrex display, or something else with red, green, blue, orange, yellow or white characters to suit. This display will be driven i 4-bit mode and the 4x20 OLEDs got mongo from from that, so stick with an LCD.

My OLED didn't quite get there during experimentation so I donated it to my PreenFM instead where it works just fine.

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About the power supply:

If I don't want to use my C64 power supply, what are the options to build the power supply inside the MB6582, so I can instead use a normal cord plugging into the wall socket?

For example, these kind of cords:

http://eshop.macsales.com/images/Items/MICPOW957006/European_Type_AC_PC_Y_Power_Cord_Cable.jpg

http://en.shsap.com/Product/Pic/20086101613982472.jpg

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Update:

PT-10 case has arrived and the boards from SmashTV are on the way.

Now to the front&back panels:

On Hawkeye's tutorial (which is really good and i really appreciate that he did that), the front panel has the 4 screw holes, but Wilba's doesn't (referring to their fpd-files now).

I would like to have my front panel plain without any logos but I do need to have the screw holes there, since I'm following Hawkeye's guide.

Is there a fpd-file with the no-logo model with the corner screw holes included?

Thanx again for all the help guys, the response on this forum is great.

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Thanx Peter!

Some questions:

1. The "Expansion Port" on the back panel, what is it for? Is it optional? I'm thinking about making the back panel without that port and without a fan hole. Is this a bad idea? If no, can I remove these holes on the back panel fpd-file before I send them to Schaeffer?

2. There are some products that you have linked to that is not for sale anymore (e.g the control knobs). Do control knobs in general have an "industry standard" construction, meaning that they all will fit on the encoders? Good to know if I find some good looking knobs somewhere and would like to buy them.

/Scifo

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Hi,

yes, if you use 8580/6582s and drill some ventilation slots or holes, it *should* be thermally ok, there was a forum poll a while ago, where some people said, it is getting quite warm in there, so i´d generally not remove the fan hole, just in case you want to add a fan later on. You can put a fan grill on it, to "close" it, even without fan.

Regarding knobs - I´d recommend you wait for a new bulk order by Martin/Kristal to get some of the awesome Waldorf knobs - they fit really well on the MB6582 and are highly recommended - otherwise, any other "industry standard knobs" with 6mm D-shaft will fit.

The expansion port is a standard 25-pin sub-d breakout port, to attach any internal headers you like to external gear. Adding that port is also recommended, as you might like to add analog filters or external voltage controlled amplifiers later on!

Edit: if you are thinking about a very useful mod to the back-panel, think of adding an improved-diameter hole for a professional 6.3mm mix-out socket. That mod is described in the photo tut on page three or so.

Many greets!

Peter

Edited by Hawkeye
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there has just been a bulk order, so it might take a while until there's enough demand again. i have a set of the grey waldorf knobs leftover,but could be there are spares from the last order. good places to look are in the bulk order and the fleamarket sections

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I'm about to order the two panels from Schaeffer. The final cost for the panels would be 177 euros, does this sound correct?

Wow that sounds expensive! According to the wiki $140 (note; dollar) should be the general direction.

I have a spare set of panels for the pac-tec pt-10 case, but the silk screening on the main panel is a bit iffy (there are no errors but the quality is not great. Still, everything is readable so the panel is useable without problem.). If you're interested drop me a PM or email.

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