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MIDIbox TIA - Atari 2600 Synth


Antichambre
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Yes, but the phasing is from the Korg, I love this old machine from the 80s. About this i've got something to tell....

There's some mods for the Ex-800(desktop version of the Poly-800) on the internet , the hawk for example, my EX-800 is not modded, want to keep it like it is but... As usual I did not resist to open it and watch how the beast is made with and of course browse the schematic.
I discover something very interesting, the OSC part is a digital one, Korg was used it for this polyphonic Synth but originally it was an Arcade Game Sound Generator.... Now You guess where I'm coming to ;)

This chip is an MSM5232 from OKI, here the datasheet. It's an 8 voices generator with 8 bit data bus and easily controllable with modern DAC for is analog inputs like EG.
A good friend for a CORE :)  Another good part inside is the VCF chip, it's an NJM2069, pretty same as a SSM2044, it's LPF 2/4 poles but with 3 VCA included and a dual ramp supply in +/-5V not +/-15V, I already order some to add to the TIA which hasn't got any filter.
I already search and found some provider for the MS5232. And I will order some very soon. Tell me if you're interested ;)

Best regards



 

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Waiting for my stella and board, and already had the idea to add a manual controlled analog filter. I would be most interested in how you are going to use yours and where you got the NJM2069 from. I have interest in the MSM5232 too, especially if you start a core-controlled project for it!

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23 hours ago, ErMangaver said:

I'm interested, my Poly-800 II died years ago, a lot of corrosion, not sure if I'll ever be able to do anything about it.

Maybe the interresting parts are not dead!

 

20 hours ago, dnode said:

where you got the NJM2069 from

I found it on ebay: http://www.ebay.fr/itm/162501568610I
I negotiated price for 10 thru best offer function.

 

20 hours ago, dnode said:

I have interest in the MSM5232 too, especially if you start a core-controlled project for it!

Yes I will try it but after summer I think, because I have a lot things to finish before beginning an other...

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To get this thread back to MB-TIA........

Here is a Q&A I had with Antichambre today:

I have been playing with the MB-TIA today.

I use it with the MB-TIA_Mgr_1c
Is that the latest version?
I think because I didn't work more on it.
 
Did you make a Max4Live version, or was that for the POKEY?
I tried I think, the difficulty was save and retieve parameters from and to Live because this software filters the sysex messages.
 
I am not sure what all the different settings in the Manager does.
Did you write a manual for it?
No :) but I can explain
 
Like if I make changes, are they saved in the MB-TIA?
Yes after Save press on the right preset.
 
If i change MIDI Channel for the two Voices, is that stored in the unit for the next time I turn it on?
Yes normally it's saved the rom memory portion of the pic, and always read at startup
 
If I understand correctly, the patches are stored in the Bankstick.
Yes
Can I change between the patches with MIDI CC?
Of course, with common program change And one CC for the bank (CC#0).
Check the Midi chart, everything is inside:
http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=midibox_tia#downloads
 
I will post questions here in the future :) 
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43 minutes ago, eptheca said:
Did you make a Max4Live version, or was that for the POKEY?
I tried I think, the difficulty was save and retieve parameters from and to Live because this software filters the sysex messages.

I was looking for the Max4Live version of the manager. I've got it ;)
It can work it's just a degraded version of the full one. But it is limited to control, You can change Preset via Program change of the track in live, but the plugin can not reflect the exact state of the machine.
Preset are transmit via sysex and Max is hosted in Live and this last doesn't manage the Sysex message.
The TIA has a CC dump function but the host track has to be in input mode to receive it. Then complicated.
The standalone version receive and send preset thru Sysex. No problem.
Maybe I can add a Save function in the TIA thru CC. And the box will save its state in the last Preset loaded by program change.
I will try and share.
An other way is to create a fake plugin and to put it in an other track in Input/Mute, A kind of Ghost track which inputs from the box. I can add a data link between the two plugins.
A normal track with the manager in it for control which ask for a CC dump on each Program change and a ghost track with the 'fake' plugin which will receive the dump and set parameters of the manager without loop.
I will try too.
 

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I use the Manager together with Ableton. Works fine.

I can send MIDI notes from Ableton, and change parameters in the Manager at the same time.

I have used other similar setups routed through virtual MIDI ports like MIDI Yoke, but it never works properly is my experience.

You said earlier that the Manger runs on ipad?

Does it work on Android?

 

 

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9 hours ago, eptheca said:

You said earlier that the Manger runs on ipad?

Yes with this app on your ipad. But this old one seems no more available on the App Store :(
Now there's Mira from Cycling'74 but it's 11E the app :/

9 hours ago, eptheca said:

Does it work on Android?

I Haven't got an android to try it, it seems the same kind of app exists now on android, here, then it's possible to add it. But I don't know if we can customize buttons and sliders...

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14 hours ago, Antichambre said:

Preset are transmit via sysex and Max is hosted in Live and this last doesn't manage the Sysex message.

i programmed a fiew years with max4live/max...build big grooveboxes with it... but that was years ago... i could also take a look on it, but first have to get the tia, source the parts have to solder... i also had the problem with sysex when using Mackie Control Pro XT/ableton, which was running almost with Sysex...

maybe this way:

Win/Mac > Ableton > MidiTrack > TIA-Manager-Plugin (not sure anymore- as instrument?):Tia manager plugin do Sysex Communication with "udpsend localhost"

Win/Mac > Max-Standalone Aplication: udpreceive localhost... reroute/interprete Data to a Midiport.

Note: When using WINDOOF the port is then fixed to ableton, or the plugin -depends on-which app you open first, which is a problem that can solved with "midiyoke" or other Virtual MidiCables.

When using MAC what i heard a Port can be shared to 2 or more Application @ the same time?

...

but since i use ableton only once all 3 years, i will try to interprete it for PureData one day, since i am a linux guy... but i am way more familar with max msp.

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Thru UDP Localhost, this is a good idea, I didn't think about it. Then you suggest to get the standalone and the plugin working together?
By this way we don't need the CS under Max4Live just a linker plugin in UDP which communicate with the standAlone Manager.
I will work on this idea, but first I have to finish prepare and send your toy.
I can share Patchs and source files because it's a lot of Javascript inside.

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33 minutes ago, Antichambre said:

Then you suggest to get the standalone and the plugin working together?
By this way we don't need the CS under Max4Live just a linker plugin in UDP which communicate with the standAlone Manager.

depending... maybe not, because:  when using the "CC Automation/Recording" in Live, there must be a M4L-Rotary/ID for the CC in the plugin - so Ableton sees "ah, there is CC to map..."

so @ least a M4L-Knob with a ID is needet, no matter if it is shown in the Plugin-UI or not

so

Moove a knob on the UI:

StandAlone-App: Moove Knob > UDP Send > M4L Plugin: parsing CC to a (hidden) M4L Knob and set the new value, which can be recordet. This hidden knob have to have enabled the "CC-Automation" tag - or whatever the tag was (so it has a good timing!)

 

Playback of CC-Sequence/load Preset from Set: Ableton outputs data....

From here i must say, it depends on localhost, > latency!

and

i cant remember if the cc-change (witch is setting the M4L-UI-Knob) also will be send out on the Output-Connector of the Knob (so the CC on our Stanalone App mooves)

 

... there are many ifs whens and so on,

by the way is there still a CC-Limitation in Ableton?, years ago it was reduced to 127CCs because of only having 1Midichannel in 1 Track....

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Just now, Phatline said:

so @ least a M4L-Knob with a ID is needet, no matter if it is shown in the Plugin-UI or not

Yes of course! ;) ... I though about this too.

 

2 minutes ago, Phatline said:

This hidden knob have to have enabled the "CC-Automation" tag - or whatever the tag was (so it has a good timing!)

Yes, hidden parameters should be hidden, have an unique scripting name, an automation name, parameter visibility must be "Automated and Store".
This must not be a CC but only a live parameter. All change will be recorded and view as parameter in the timeline or clip.
The track only record Notes and Automation, No CC, the plugin can filter it, CC are send and receive to the Box thru Standalone Manager.

On receive from CC... Manager set is CS and send data to automation in Live.
On Live Automation Change... plugin send data to manager... Manager send it to box
On Manager CS change.. it send it to Live automation and to box.

I think Program change on Live should be an Automation parameter too, same as CC except that All automation parameters receive data from Manager on its Sysex reception.

It should work, obviously Latency needs to be tested and on some different OS and computer

 

21 minutes ago, Phatline said:

... there are many ifs whens and so on,

Not that much ;)

 

21 minutes ago, Phatline said:

by the way is there still a CC-Limitation in Ableton?, years ago it was reduced to 127CCs because of only having 1Midichannel in 1 Track....

There's RPN and NRPN for CC and I think Automation Parameters are unlimited.
 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Question for the assambly:

whats about the RA03/RB03 Jumpers... what do they (route the AUX, but what are the AUX for...), whats the different between A and B.... thx 4 clarification

 

also a foto from a assembled board would be great, because of the orientation of the lc512ers..

@lc512: are booth required? or do i need the array....

what is saved on the lc512 - only patches or also Systemsettings like midichannel tuning and so on? because i want to controll the tia via midi, and also save the patches on a external midicontroller... so with that in mind do i have to assemble the 512ers?

@12Vmax/ 9Vmin -  What is the Imax? (since i drive 4 of it i need it more detailed)

Edited by Phatline
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fetch.php?media=antichambre:mb-tia-cartr
There's 8 auxiliary lines, for other purposes like original Atari joystick or pad for example.
AUX4-7 are respectively RA5, RE0-2 and this jumpers permit to switch AUX0-3 between RA0-3 and RB0-3. You can access, INT, CAN, AD and others pin function of the PIC.
You can access free pin and add something if you want. That's all ;)

...It's late here. I will do a complete answer tomorrow morning.
BR

 

Edited by Antichambre
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For the assembly:

"the um6526p1 you shipped, is the "Pal Tia-mono?"  so the 3rd figure on the pcb is the one i have to jumper. "
Yes the TIA model I provide is a TIA PAL version


fetch.php?media=antichambre:jp1_jumper.p


 

12 hours ago, Phatline said:

whats about the RA03/RB03 Jumpers... what do they (route the AUX, but what are the AUX for...), whats the different between A and B.... thx 4 clarification

There's 8 auxiliary lines on DB25 connector, I added non used PIC Pins for other purpose, first ideas were to add original Atari joystick or pad, Interconnect Boxes by CAN or add a small CS
AUX4-7 are respectively RA5, RE0-2 and this jumpers permit to switch AUX0-3 between RA0-3 and RB0-3. You can access, INT, CAN, AD and others pin function of the PIC.

 

12 hours ago, Phatline said:

also a foto from a assembled board would be great, because of the orientation of the lc512ers..

fetch.php?media=antichambre:ic2-3_orient      Pin 1 for both are at Top/Left.

 

12 hours ago, Phatline said:

@lc512: are booth required? or do i need the array....

what is saved on the lc512 - only patches or also Systemsettings like midichannel tuning and so on? because i want to controll the tia via midi, and also save the patches on a external midicontroller... so with that in mind do i have to assemble the 512ers?

It's Only Patches Datas which are in the external EEPROM Array. All System like MIDI Ch config are stored in the Internal ROM of the PIC.
The external EEPROM are not a condition for the box to work.

 

12 hours ago, Phatline said:

@12Vmax/ 9Vmin -  What is the Imax? (since i drive 4 of it i need it more detailed)

I just suggest a 9V supply because it's enough and avoid heat from regulator, the regulator heat depends on the difference between its input and output.Greater is the Voltage input Hotter it will be.
I don't suggest you to supply the board from 5V I/O, you will get some digital noise on the audio output, this 5V I/O is much more to provide 5V supply for the AUX.
If you want to interconnect boards in parallel with only one reg on first board, Reg is a LM7805CT and can provide 1A(enough for 4), better to do it here:

fetch.php?media=antichambre:multisupply.


The other way is to populate the 4 regulators and provide 9-12v from the same external supply to all boards.


I refreshed the schematics:

fetch.php?media=antichambre:mb-tia-cartr

Hope I answered to your questions.
Antichambre
 

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thx, yes answered.

then i only need to get that 3,54Mhz quarz and those 2 transistors, the voltage regulator and that "audio purpose"-capacitor, all other stuff i had in stock

offtopic: my plan is to remote 4 of it via a core32, take the 4 midi-outs - and play them poly, the audio summ will go to a ssm2044 and ssm2164

tia and its new environment

tia-environment.jpg

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Just now, Phatline said:

and those 2 transistors

You can try with BC559 which is very close to the 2N3906
 

Just now, Phatline said:

that "audio purpose"-capacitor

A normal polarized 10uF will work too ;)
 

Just now, Phatline said:

tia and its new environment

Great testing environment!!, share your result please because lot of people ask me to create a Quad TIA synth and the associated Control Surface.
My plan is to a add a SSM2045 or NJM2069 to each TIA, to enhance its amplitude precision, add a LPF and rewrite TIA interfacing under MIOS32 on STM... Next... If some people want to help me working on it they are welcome, it's just a question of time, no enough :(

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 04/06/2017 at 1:21 PM, Phatline said:

normal "6n138" dip-package,

Yes I don't know why i saw a smd chip, it's just a DIP socket.

I'm a bit late, sorry. I will try to ship the remainning kit before the end of the week but don't blame me if it's not the case, please :)
It's a lot of work and I already have a full time job ;)
Some pictures of breakout cables and board preparation, you will see that it's pretty finished:

large.BULK-001.jpg.ed7b8404a003094f295b6large.BULK-003.jpg.1f0b7335837d56935e0eblarge.BULK-004.jpg.e2443d6923338b2d8dfd0large.BULK-002.jpg.1c133080ab6b8befa7669large.BULK-007.jpg.6885858c0846bc44e8b10large.BULK-006.jpg.b6f119dce89f7e78dfb3f



Ohhh! scrubber and mrspring I need your Label to print it!

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 01/07/2017 at 10:08 AM, Elektruck said:

Any chance for me to get a pcb and or enclosure?

Hi, it remains some PCB, TIA, maybe 1 backplane somewhere. For the enclosure it's an Atari cartridge and no more Breakout cable.
Tell me...
 

On 01/07/2017 at 10:08 AM, Elektruck said:

Cool project!

Thank you

Best

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