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Sido - simpler than Sammich


C_04
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Hi

After funeral in my close family and some other sad things im back here. Of course im still working on SIDO but im not describing it here because its mainly waiting for pcbs etc... so nothing interesting happen.

I must say that i found few bad things in this entire design, unfortunately after second prototype and parts for another. These not so big things - just i dont like them:)

For example schematic with backlight of lcd is wrong - transistor should be installed opposite, as it is now it doesnt work properly. I will fix that in next revision of PCB. Currently is #2 and im preparing 2.2b. These small boards are also been changed a little. Keyboard must be manufactured once again - eagle has changed GND to N$18 so one of switches is unconnected to ground. It everything may be fixed just with piece of wire but thats not for sale where it must work at first shot. 

Ive bought red negative LCD and problem is its not so bright. I also bought some previously used LCDs for about 4 EUR/PC and they work amazingly. These will be photographed soon.

So... i would supply this beautiful design but if people want only brand new parts - there will be probably no way to use nothing that blue/white displays. They just average at my point of view - everything now has something blue which is boring in such quantity around. Finally ive added another led which is second and these are CC and Auto Save. This way shows batter that you may harm to your presets just by overwriting them. In this case when we have right led it will inform that Auto Save option is on. 

As i said before ive changed positions of ARP button and FILTER button. ARP is now close to SHIFT.

Ive found that some of You may want to use 6581 chips or all these which require 12V and this design is not good for that - reason is that at 12VAC 7805 is going very hot.  Probably when use here transformer with 9VAC everything could be much cooler. Anyway something must be done here and thats why ive added resistor in series it will be 6-8 ohm and 2-5W (6ohm could be 2W).

All because these SIDs need almost 0,5A to work. Fortunately ive bought someday few pcs of these wall cords or however (these power supplies) 12VAC 1A each for 4Eur. And thats another reason to keep at 12V power working device. 

Another thing which is done is firmware - i mean setup to be correct. Sido keyboard use different connections that have other MBHP SIDs designs so another setup for firmware must be done.

 

Heh in the meantime i made simple midi controller. It controls 8 tracks in CUBASE (can be modified to control more), has 8 potentiometers, 8 buttons and 10 leds. There also one hidden pin which shorten to gnd send STOP communicate (i do not use it because Cubase do not recognize it). Firmware is in asembler and is working on AT89S52. Last time ive bought 2 pcs of them just for little above 1 Eur with shipping.  There also necessary ADC0808 or ADC0809 - ive had them at home. Some guy made PCBs for it because i hate to clean everything after etching;)

Firmware is modified version of somebodys work but ive changed ports designations and CCs are sent. Maybe if somebody interrested i will publish it. I did this controller because i do not want to spend time for setting proportions for vocalist so he or she can do it by self. Firstly i wanted to use mixer with min 8 channels and send them all to vocal booth/cabin (however) but it then require to use 8 tracks from my sound interface which is half what i have in analog (2x MOTU 2408MK2 - i know its old but its excellent tool).

 

Later i add some pics which in fact are nothing new - soldered pcbs and connected by wires.

Ahh i forgot to say that i hate to solder countless these ribbon wires. Ive found that better and faster is to use here IDC connectors (these like FDD or HDD ATA/IDEE). Unfortunately when i solder connector as i want pins are not compatible they 1 to 2 and 2 to 1... 15 to 16 and 16 to 15. Should be of course 1 to 1, 2 to 2 etc. Im looking for another solution - small part of PCB just as converter/adapter for exact row connection. I did in fact this kind converter from IDC 16 to 1 row 16 (for displays). Thanks for such solution only what i need is solder goldpins and solder there just another small board 13 x 41 mm. Important is that i can solder entire device pretty fast without ugly cable connections. You know what i mean;)

Regards

Cheers

Stay Tuned

C_04

 

Sorry for this ground school English;)

 

P.S. These yellow signs on 2x20 LCD in fact are not yellow. First picture shows how it looks - is more close to red led light. As you can see on 4th pic (4x20 LCD) there are installed small pcb which convert 16 pins in single line to dual rows 8 each. It could be installed by angle goldpins but i dont have them already at home.

P.S. 2. Measured voltage is 14.2VAC in circuit and 16VDC - thats the reason why 7805 become so hot. Hehe these Chinese transformers with "12V" big info there. Not connected has 15VAC. Fortunately my device takes 0,35A and 10 ohm 5W resistor should help in any case. There should be at least 3V drop and of course i can set right resistor manually:).

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Edited by C_04
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Hello
After a lot of testing and measuring i must say that resistors are dead end. 10 ohms make only 10 C deg. 7805 cooler/colder. Beside that power dissipation produce also heat inside resistor so i have two sources of heating now... each about 53 C deg. Ive tried to connect 7809 and 7805 in series but no luck. Decision is to leave 7809 because it even not need heat sink and its now time to try DC/DC converter. I worked with them previously and it may be right choice for current times we live. Linear voltage regulators when has to dissipate a lot of voltage become really hot. In fact 5V rail is mainly digital part of circuit and should be no problems here.

Second test was 7809 and in series 7805:
Ive measured heat inside closed enclosure after some time. Im curious that in some circumstances become heating may damage entire circuit. I measured it in 25 C deg environment - after 30 min inside, sensor about 5 mm to heat sink and there were 43 C deg. Heat sinks were 57 and 64 (highest readings).

Third test - lowering power supply:
In this test everything is wrong. And of course is easy to explain. Each 78xx needs about 3V above we want to get. It means if for example i have 7805 then i need 8V to work properly.
In first case when connected voltage was 9VAC - rectified was too low to work with 7809... then ive connected 12VAC and it was right choice but only in case when 7809 is there. Looks no chance to use 7812 for 6581. I dont know and probably any of you: what exact voltage it has when buying power supply. If for example we get 14VAC as ive got then we back on the starting point.

I see few other possibilities: maybe bigger heat sink or 2 - one smaller inside another, drilling/cutting holes in enclosures which rises costs of manufacturing, trying another enclosure, making custom enclosure and of course using DC/DC converter.

 

My first prototype has only one SID chip and heat there wasnt big deal. This is second and couple revisions been done (pcbs).

Bye
C_04

Edited by C_04
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Hi

Ive checked that solution (sammichSID) its wrong for my purposes too. sammichSIDs enclosure is almost all open... looks like swiss cheese (whatever) there must be a lot of holes to do something with so much heat. As i pointed previously - i wanna use SERPAC enclosures which to my taste looks like something between YAMAHA CS1x, CS2x, CS6x, AN1x. Especially these angled sides are somehow like YAMAHAs. 

In fact only switching power supply is the solution i think and ive already designed - its not exactly switching... i mean it is but... using MC34063 + additional LC filter. Ive spent a lot of time with them. I did made many filters for microphone preamps to reduce noises from them. These were complicated designs actually STEP UP but above specifications.

Regards

C_04

 

P.S. In my design 7809 works even without any heat sink. If DC/DC converter will work in place of 7805 then i have what i wanted. And enclosure can be closed. No need for any holes for ventilation. 

Edited by C_04
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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

Ive build that dc/dc converter and i must say 2 things: 

- switching frequency is too low and noise is really audible 

- after measuring now i see how linear 7805 is inefficient here. 

With 7805 whole circuit takes 0,35A and when DC/DC converter is sitting in place of 7805 - device need only 0,15A. After reading note for mc34063 i know that max switching frequency is 100kHz which is way too low because MC34063 produce a lot subharmonic frequencies. I remember now why it was working in my mic preamps. Anyway i did ordered ready to use DC/DC but 550kHz and maybe that will be solution. Still i can build 1MHz DC/DC converter. One thing could be problem here + i need to make a lot tests for EMI right now. I hope everything will be fine and there will be not necessary to use some shielding or etc to prevent radio frequency emitting.

Regards

C_04

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Hi

Ive recorded some tracks. Here is "tron" - as you can hear there is background noise from MC34063 but nothing stop me to play even not finished SIDO:)

These 10uF caps are way too small - i'll change them to 100uF otherwise no bass here. 

Cheers

C_04

 

P.S. Second mixed track is one of some songs from September with a little mods. This is still noisy SIDO and i mixed it fast in Cool Edit Pro where i cant mix because its horrible there... also using headphones - for me its impossible to make not even good mix that way. So its just what SIDO can do. All tracks beside drum loops and some drum instruments were from SIDO. Even one drum loop is from SIDO. 3 tracks have been reverbed/delayed, 2 equed. Hihats loop, Bassdrum loop and Clap loop ive made manually - thats why may be not in time. Not in time is also this sticky sound like a CASIO - i have no idea why, probably something was wrong in midi track. This song is heavily compressed. Take a point its only for fun. 

tron.mp3

septemba fast mix.mp3

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Today ive got right DC/DC converter. Its small pcb from POLOLU and i will install them because i do not need to design new pcb. Of course i must change few things because now two pins on DC/DC must be shorted and finally DC/DC could be just soldered to main pcb in that way. Basicly its 5V, 550kHz step-down converter 300mA max and i dont need more. I may say thats not expensive thing.

Sido at last has no noise:)

Also today i gave one enclosure for laser cutting and panel label engraving, next thursday probably will be ready. Ive redesigned panels and graphics a little.

 

Ciao

 

P.S. Now SIDO needs only 163mA.

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Edited by C_04
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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you:)

This almost white enclosure looks more like some medic device. Now im not sure which is better white or black. Brushed aluminium - like panel... in fact its self adhesive label laser engraved and thats why its not completely flat.

Regards

Edited by C_04
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  • 3 months later...

Hi

It was a long piece of time:)

Im still working of the same problem. Maybe it exist only into my head but heat problem is a really big problem from my point of view. So im checking another solutions like diodes in series with 7809 and 7805. It reduced heat a lot. But my last idea is: it could be so beautiful just to connect this synth directly to the wall socket... I ordered that switching power supply for tests. It works on TNY266 IC.

We will see what happen:)

Problematic will be to isolate high and dangerous voltages from places anyone can touch even if SIDO is open.

Cheers

C_04

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  • 5 months later...

Ok after long break im back here.

Some infos: ive installed in my SIDO 1MHz switching supply. It basicly reduce voltage from 12V or more to 7,5V which is then stabilised by 7805 and that helps so much. Another thing i observed: would be better to install here some OPAMP than these transistors and ill try this in newer version of SIDO, also some other mods like AMS1117 for uC and keyboard + LCD.

 

But whats important... last days/months ive been and we still cooperate to solving some problems of MBSID and MBFM which were described here:

Read posts written by Mr. Wylany.

Finally he build his own MBSID which is based on designed by me - plans for SIDO. He (Mr. Wylany) designed metal box with wooden sides. As you can see its basicly SIDO in custom enclosure because ive made control keyboard, LCD been also connected and setup was programmed because its 18F451 uC. That rear board with audio connectors is also part from SIDO. Another things like MB CORE + SID Board were ready and working (delivered to me via post). He called this synth "GIANA".

And here is:

 

You may say: its not finished here and there but i think it will be... time is needed here:)

Cheers

C_04

P.S. Ive started also another job here:

Reason in simple: Mr. Wylany had 2 synths without keyboards and LCDs - completely without CS and now its my case;)

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  • 2 years later...

Meanwhile i made some cool pcbs ;)
 

Nano SwinSids i could sell if at least 5 persons interrested then price could be 10EUR each + shipping. Maybe you dont know but Swinsid has 15 waveforms (mainly noises) while sid only 7.

Another pics are MCV876 midi to cv converter - can work as synthesizer or CC. DAX is basicly MBFM but in my reincarnation - brother of SIDO.

Cheers

Greg

nanosm.jpg

mcv876sm.jpg

DAX TOPsm.jpg

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