oano Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Hello, hope someone of you knowledgeable types see this post some time in the future and feel like helping an electronics beginner in finally trying to finish his sid synth... I'm too unschooled in these matters myself, so I have no idea how and where to find what's wrong and I've now attempted everything I can think of myself. Sorry in advance for any hypothetical stupidity on my part. Basically, I recently decided to upgrade my old SID synth v2 (Minimal control surface, functioning), so I bought all the components I need, and then thought I followed all the instructions correctly, but I must have done something wrong somewhere since I keep getting these strange problems. I have so far built the LED matrix with its buttons, plus 2 DINX4s and 2 DOUTX4s (from SmashTV/midiboxshop). I have attached a picture of the whole build, so far. The problems are mainly two (so far): 1. The 2 DINX4s don't seem to be working, at all. I tried connecting the LED buttons to them, nothing happens. When I reconnect my homebuilt DIN from the Minimal control surface I get input from the buttons around the matrix, so they are not the problem at least. I have followed the soldering instructions on the DIN page on ucapps as far as I can tell. I've read about caps on the bottom side of the PCB, but I guessed those were moved, and are the ones now on top? I also guessed that the side with the dot on the 10k resistor arrays should face the arrow on the board. The ICs are called SN74HC165N, i don't know if that's the problem, since the ones on the old homemade DIN are a different kind called CD74HC165E. Would this make a difference? I attach a photo of the DINs. 2. The LED matrix acts strange. Firstly, it flickers randomly and faintly all the time, but I've read this might be relatively normal because of how the circuit is designed? At first, nothing else happened, and I had followed the instructions at http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_cs/mbsid_v2_dout_default.pdf , and removed the resistor array at J6 on the second DOUTX4 in the chain and put bridges there instead. But then I noticed another diagram for my SmashTV PCB layout at http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_dout_8x8leds.pdf where the rows of LEDs are connected the opposite way (from D7 to D0 instead of D0 to D7), and also on the J3/J4 instead of J5/J6 of the DOUT... Does this matter? Isn't the default mapping made for the J5/J6 alternative? Anyway, when I inverted the connectors for the LED rows I got one bottom line lighting up on the matrix (see picture), rest still flickers. I have also attached a picture of the rear side, with the anode/cathode net, again, I've followed the guides and can't see anything that looks wrong myself. So I don't know what to do. Hope someone can help so I don't have to give up completely on this project. Thanks a lot in advance to anyone who might feel like helping out in any way, I'd be so very grateful for any assistance! /Ralf, Sweden Edited March 6, 2015 by oano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxon Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Hi Ralf, simple question: did you forget to upload your updated setup.asm? :smile: Best regards Marxon Edited March 7, 2015 by Marxon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted March 8, 2015 Report Share Posted March 8, 2015 Hi, The prepared setup_6581 resp. setup_8580 builds should work without changes. DIN modules: it should work this way. I've read about caps on the bottom side of the PCB, but I guessed those were moved, and are the ones now on top? yes I also guessed that the side with the dot on the 10k resistor arrays should face the arrow on the board. yes The ICs are called SN74HC165N ok. It could make sense if you try the DIN boards with the MIDIO128 application. Each DIN pin should trigger a MIDI note event. DOUT matrix: here a schematic which shows how to connect the LED matrix with a MBHP_DOUTX4_R5 core: http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_dout_8x8leds.pdf Just the shift register locations are different: cathodes at the 8th shift register, anodes at the 7th shift register like in the diagram that you linked above: ;; DOUT/DIN shift register matrix: ;; define the DOUT shift register (1-16) to which the cathodes are connected (common line driver) ;; 0 disables this shift register (doesn't make much sense) #define DEFAULT_SRM_CATHODES 8 ;; define the DOUT shift register (1-16) to which the anodes of the modulation matrix are connected ;; 0 disables this shift register #define DEFAULT_SRM_MODMATRIX_DOUT 7 Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oano Posted March 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 First, thanks so much for all your replies and assistance, it means a lot! It seems I had misunderstood the order of the connectors between the DINs and DOUTs, so after switching them I start getting some more acceptable signals through, at least on the DOUT chain, which now seems to be functioning correctly. The LED matrix lights up in different patterns for each bank preset, which I'm guessing looks right. The two DINX4 circuits are still not working correctly though... I've tried the MIDIO128 application, and every time I connect either of the two new DINs I just get a lot of random signals. When I connect them using the setup_8580 I either get a "Cloning slaves" message (from the Menu button registering, I guess) or a lot of random signals here as well. My old DINX2 still functions correctly. From reading around on the forums I understand this could mean a short somewhere, but I don't see anything wrong on the PCBs at least, and it seems strange that both boards are completely nonfunctional, I'm not that bad at soldering and, as I said, the DOUTs are working fine... Could there be something with the components? The resistor arrays have 6 pins and are called Bourns 6X-2-103LF, are these acceptable? The caps say BC 104, and I don't suppose these have to face any specific direction on the board, right? I don't know what else to look for, and any further assistance would be very helpful, thanks a lot again! /Ralf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 I don't think that these components cause the problem. What happens if you remove the first 74HC165 from the socket? I expect that in this case no random events will be generated - if this happens, then it's very likely a connection issue between CORE and DIN module Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oano Posted March 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 What happens if you remove the first 74HC165 from the socket? I expect that in this case no random events will be generated - if this happens, then it's very likely a connection issue between CORE and DIN module You are right, no random events are generated. Does this mean something is wrong with the IC chips? Could they have become broken from before, when I had misunderstood the connections and connected the pins in the wrong order several times? Or is this model maybe not compatible (SN74HC165N)? I can't see anything especially wrong with the soldering, but if all else fails I guess I will have to resolder... Thanks again! /Ralf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oano Posted March 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 (edited) Ok, I've now tried changing the IC's to new unused ones of the same kind, and also tried changing them to the ones on the old functioning DINX2, and they are still behaving erratic. However, after googling my resistor arrays and comparing them with the exact Reichelt order# on the ucapps order list, I noticed there are 3 different kinds of arrays. I seem to have the kind that is "isolated" (no connection between pairs of resistor pins), but the one on the order list seems to be "bussed" (connection through the whole array). Then there seem to also be "dual terminator" arrays (a dual line of resistors connected to each other). Could this be the problem after all? I will try ordering the bussed kind and see if that helps, unless there are no other ideas on what could be wrong? /Ralf Edit: updated faulty info Edited March 15, 2015 by oano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpete Posted March 15, 2015 Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 You have identified a big problem. You can clip out the current arrays and replace them with individual resistors if you want. You do need the bussed units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oano Posted March 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2015 Ok great thanks, well hopefully I've located the problem now! I had no idea there were different kinds of arrays. The more you know huh. I'll see which components I can find tomorrow and hope I can continue with my project after fixing this issue... Cheers, /Ralf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oano Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Update: it works! Thanks guys. On with the project... /Ralf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 :phone: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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