Rowan

MPC style Note Repeat Function

55 posts in this topic

Actually a great idea, so that I couldn't resist to hack this into the firmware:

http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_seq_v4_088_pre9.zip

 

(Copy/Paste are available at GP15/GP16, and can also be executed with the dedicated buttons)

 

But: accent won't be copied as the user might expect it.

It will work if the track has enabled the accent trigger layer, if not the accent flags will get lost.

 

The euclid generator doesn't get use of the accent flags, but directly sets the note velocity values instead to simplify the editing of a generated pattern.

The "Live Pattern" copy/paste function would need a certain intelligence to determine this special situation, but it's too error prone...

 

So: the copy&paste approach will only work reliable with gates.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great. I'll try this out once the kids are in bed tonight and I've got a bit of peace and quite. I have also got a Arturia Beatstep to check that it transmits polyphonic aftertouch. Does the X-Key work correctly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It works, but the travel is very limited, which means that it's difficult to set a specific velocity range with the key after it has been pressed.

Polyphonic aftertouch values are sent, but they are more or less random...

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TK, you have out done yourself here. Up until about 15 min ago I though nothing could top the MPC for this type of thing and you've beat it! Well done.

The Beatstep sends the polyphonic aftertouch data well and is working correctly at controlling the note velocity.

Edited by Rowan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking about it further, this is so good it warrants being turned into a stand alone app that can be run on a much more basic hardware setup for people who can't/don't want to build a full blowen MBSEQ.

Edited by Rowan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Such as the MBSEQ V4L? ;-)

 

Here a new version which supports recording - now the serious fun begins! :smile:

-> http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_seq_v4_088_pre10.zip

 

Again some limitations (it's only a quick&dirty hack to check the possibilities and blocking points):

- live pattern recording should work flawlessly for drum tracks

- it sometimes doesn't work correctly for common tracks if chords are played (the mechanism needs some logic to add/remove notes while key is pressed)

- recording mode can be enabled in repeat page (it's the same function which is available in record page)

- you can switch to EDIT page for visual check of the recorded pattern

- required recording configuration:

-- Rec Port/Channel have to match with Live Port/Channel; Fwd.Midi should be enabled

-- if drums are recorded, one of the parameter layers (e.g. LayA) should be set to Velocity in the MENU->EVENT page (e.g. instead of Roll which is the default)

 

It seems that I've to overwork the Rec/Live port & channel configuration.

Actually they should be the same (I don't remember why I differentiated in the past...)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Such as the MBSEQ V4L? ;-)

 

I had something even simpler in mind along the lines if the Mutable Instruments Midipal based around the Standard Control Surface for the UI and 1 or 2 pair of MIDI I/O and USB MIDI I/O that could be connected between a controller and another device.

 

Really just a MIDI processor that has all the cool FX stuff out of the MBSEQ in a little box.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, understood - needs more discussion the other day ;-)

 

I couldn't resist to consolidate the Record, Live and Repeat page for a more ergonomic usage of the new functions.

This should also solve the channel confusion and different recording usecases:

 

-> http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_seq_v4_088_pre13.zip

 

What is new:

 

the Live and Repeat page have been removed.

Instead we've now some subpages in the recording page for the different use cases:

record_step1.gif

 

Left side: Track selection, Record on/off and Forwarding (previously called "Live") on/off

The "Step Record" configuration is selected and showed at the right side (starting with Mode)

 

Whenever this subpage is activated, step recording takes place.

If any other subpage is selected, live recording is used instead.

(e.g. step recording doesn't make sense together with the Pattern function - one possible confusion solved ;-)

 

record_live1.gif

 

The live page enables live recording, and allows to select Mono/Poly, Auto-start and quantisation.

 

record_ptn1.gif

 

The new pattern page used for pattern based recording (and playing)

If a drum track is selected, individual patterns can be assigned to the Drum instrument selected with GP9 (or played from the keyboard).

If a common track is selected, GP9 allows to switch between Mono/Poly mode instead.

 

Copy/Paste are possible with GP15 and GP16, but also with the dedicated buttons if this subpage is selected.

 

record_midi1.gif

 

The MIDI configuration page is similar to the page that we know from MENU->MIDI

We've 4 busses, each bus can either be assigned to control the T&A function (Transpose and arpeggiator), or the Recording function (which is used for MIDI forwarding as well - previously called "Play Live")

 

The dedicated Recording Port/Channel has been removed, instead the same port, channel, keyboard zone is used like for the forwarding function.

 

record_misc1.gif

 

The misc page provides the remaining parameters for the forwarding function (Octave transpose, optional Fx and Force-to-Scale)

 

 

Hope that I haven't broken too much with the changes ;-)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The function now seem more unified now that they are consolidated into the Record menu, though I don't really think the tile Record is the right name for the menu it now.... In my mind this menu is now more about performance with recording being a secondary function.

Would it be possible to have two pattern sets? One for Drum type tracks and a second set for note tracks?

Edited by Rowan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are right.

The term "performance" could be miss-leading for the page, here I see more the role of the mute, pattern and/or song page.

Other proposals?

 

In this new version the pattern selection has been separated for drum and common tracks (I guess that this is what you mean):

-> http://www.ucapps.de/mios32/midibox_seq_v4_088_pre14.zip

 

Are 16 patterns sufficient?

At least it seems that LPC17 can still handle this, but RAM is almost completely allocated now and I hope that there are no stack overrun issues.

Anybody with a LPC17 core ready for testing the integrity? (if all sequencer functions are still working?)

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about "Transform", "Jam", "Improvise" or "Improv"?

 

If there is space for more than 16 patterns it would be useful.

 

The ability to name and store the patterns on the SD card as part of the session would also be helpful so that when you load a session you can be sure you will get the same pattern set that you had when the session was saved. If the patterns can be saved users could share their favorite patterns and a preset library could be made in various musical styles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We need a term which can be easily shortened to a meaningful 3 or 4 character acronym.

Therefore "Jam" is probably the best choice :smile:

 

Patterns: my intention was to store them in the /SESSIONS/<name>/MBSEQ_C.V4 file (contains various local configuration parameters)

Naming and separate files are too much overhead (this would especially affect the load time of a session for not so much value behind this approach).

 

Format will be something like:

#           Num Gates            Accent
LivePattern   1 *............... ................
LivePattern   2 *.......*....... ................
LivePattern   3 *.......*....... *...............

This way you can share patterns in postings on a textual basis, and users can just integrate (and re-arrange) them into a session with the text editor of the MIOS Filebrowser

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

 

P.S.: I will be on vacation the next days, and come back to this topic in ca. 2 weeks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enjoy your vacation!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Thorsten,

 

Great to see the development you did so far on the arpegiator, note repeat.

As i mentioned before Roland did a very good job in implementing an arpegiator in the MC 303, 505.

If you think it might be interesting I can send you a MC303, you can keep it after.

I own 2 of them mainly for the arpegiator, sequencer and groove templates (one is a backup).

 

I also like the idea of pattern triggering and transposing but if you understand the concept of the arp in the mc303 it opens up new possibilties.

 

 

Let me tell a bit about the arp's implementation,

 

you can change a total of 6 parameters + the selected style

1 the arpegio style (the most importtant one: 1/4, 1/6, 1/8, 1/12. 1/16, 1/32, Portamento, Glissando, Sequence A, Sequence B, Sequence C, ECHO, SYNBAS, Heavy Slap, Light Slap, Walk Bass, RYTHMGTR 1-5, 3FINGER, STRUMMING Guitar, PIANO BACKING, CLAVICHORD, Waltz, Swing Waltz, REGGAE, Percussion, Harp, SHAMISEN, BOUNCING BALL, RANDOM, LIMMITLESS

2. the note lenght,

3. accent rate 

4. octave range

5. Motif ( This determins the Sequence of notes of a the played Chord  )

6 Beat Pattern ( this changes the location of accents and lenght of notes )

7 Shufflerate (ammount of shuffle )

 

See the manual here http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/MC-303_OM.pdf

 

For example if you select the 1/16 style you can change:

Motif: order of the notes if a chord is played, up, down, Chord repeat. random etc.

Beatpattern: different accents

Shufflerate: Add some shuffle

 

The start of the arp is also linked to the global song quantize if this is enabled.  I use it a lot to record beats very quickly. Or create nice harmonies, basslines.

Guitar strumming effects, bouncing ball etc also great on beats.

 

So let me know if you are interested and i can send you one of my MC303's, will be great if i don't have to use it anymore because the MIDIBOSS can do it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

thanks for the generous offer, but I think that I don't need a MC303 to understand what you mean (I'm working with MIDI devices since more than 25 years...). I'm not planning to enhance the Live Pattern functionality anymore, because I think that all requests are fullfilled, they are just working a bit differernt from that what you might know from other devices, opening possibilities that you don't know from those devices.

E.g. a general difference to common sequencers is, that MBSEQ works on a step basis, and not timescale basis. Therefore it isn't possible to record MIDI events exactly with the entered (or automated) swing/shuffle timing. Instead this timing has to be generated while playing back the steps in the configured raster.

I also think that you've missed the already existing arpeggiator capabilities of MBSEQ which are unusual (but powerful) as well.

See following tutorials which are a good entry point to get a basic understanding of the workflow: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_seq_manual_tut.html

And following video shows how quick groovy and especially variant sequences can be created:

Of course, somebody might think that the MBSEQ approach has limitations compared to other devices, but from my point of view I see certain advantages (especially in the flexibility such as step progression changes or non-destructive FX additions) which are not available for devices which work with the static timescale approach.

So, let's say these are more like conflicts in the different approaches, but no real limitations. It might make sense to use two or three different sequencers and to sync them to get out the best of all approaches. :)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Thorsten,

 

You are absolutly right that I am not aware of the MIDIBOX capabilies. 

In fact i just have all the parts minus displays and midi terminals at home to start my first build Seq4 + aout_NG 6x out 2x in.

My idea was already from the start to sync the MC303 with the midibox.

 

The video youre showing was my first encounter with the Midbox sequencer and after being in love for 1 year i finally hit on her :smile:

 

I also agree that every approach limits in one area and open possibilties in another area, i guess its time form me to get my build working and spend lots of hours with it.

 

Thansk for your reply,

 

Best regards

 

Tim

Edited by flyweight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't forget MPC 16 Levels feature combined with Note repeat is a great secret weapon

 

Please implement that as well :smile:

 

 

The 16 Level feature, let you use the 16 pads (or buttons in the Seqv4's case) to select either 16 levels of velocity or 16 different Note values.

So essentially you would make it so buttons 1 - 16 would trigger 16 different levels of Velocity. or 16 different Notes

 

 

 

When combined with the Note Repeat and 16 levels provides great live possibilities

 

This would be worth adding.

 

I've never really used the 16 Level feature on the MPC but a lot of people do. 

 

Once agin, it's a simple idea that is very effective.

 

Press a pad then press the 16 Levels button, each of the pads then have the same MIDI note assigned to it with varying velocity values.

 

i.e. (I'm making these numbers up but it should illustrate the concept)

 

Pad 1 (Note Number X) - Velocity 1

Pad 2 (Note Number X) - Velocity 7

Pad 3 (Note Number X) - Veloctiy 15

.

.

.

Pad 16 (Note Number X) - Velocity 127

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't had a chance to try this out yet, but I was wondering if the ability to have easy access to the resolutions 1/64, 1/32, 1/16, etc made it in, thats pretty essential to building rolls on an mpc.

 

thanks, 

 

Luke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Haven't had a chance to try this out yet, but I was wondering if the ability to have easy access to the resolutions 1/64, 1/32, 1/16, etc made it in, thats pretty essential to building rolls on an mpc.   thanks,    Luke
Yes, you an do this. The way it works is different to an MPC though but it is much more flexible. Rather than choosing a note resolution e.g. 1/8, 1/16 you choose a pattern. A pattern is filled with notes such as 1/8, 1/16 etc. The advantage of this approach is that you can edit the contents of the pattern and achieve repeat patterns that are "non-regular" and use things like the Euclidean generator to creat the patterns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TK, thanks! Your implementation is really cool and already fully usable!

 

It would be even more awesome if we could switch the patterns with 16 GP buttons. I.e. pushing GP 11-13 first (those under the pattern selection area) would get you to live pattern selection page where the 16 GP buttons will activate respective repeat pattern. 1st line of display could display some basic data (group, track and selected repeat pattern number) and 2nd line could display the pattern itself in a beat bullet fashion. Encoders could be used to activate/deactivate individual steps within the pattern - CW rotation activates the step, CCW rotation deactivates it. Exit button would take you back to Rec. >Ptn.< page.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad that it's working :smile:

 

I don't like the special pattern selection page, although it would be a nice-to-have function.

It leads to a deep menu hierarchy, but the MBSEQ user interface wasn't made for this.

E.g. there is no standard way to come out of such a page (all GP buttons are allocated... so it couldn't be a soft function).

And everything which isn't standard, means that I've to overwork some parts of the firmware.

 

So: I would only add this if there are strong reasons (or if I would use such a function by myself ;-)

 

However, you probably haven't noticed yet that pattern editing is already possible: just press the SELECT key in this subpage.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your response. I agree that changing certain UI paradigms is not a good idea if it's not in harmony with the rest. I'm still getting familiar with the OS and UI so bear with my crazy ideas please :-)

 

Thanks for the Select button hint!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Glad that it's working :smile:

 

I don't like the special pattern selection page, although it would be a nice-to-have function.

It leads to a deep menu hierarchy, but the MBSEQ user interface wasn't made for this.

E.g. there is no standard way to come out of such a page (all GP buttons are allocated... so it couldn't be a soft function).

And everything which isn't standard, means that I've to overwork some parts of the firmware.

 

So: I would only add this if there are strong reasons (or if I would use such a function by myself ;-)

 

However, you probably haven't noticed yet that pattern editing is already possible: just press the SELECT key in this subpage.

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

 

I can see the technical issues here, but honestly the best part of note repeat on an mpc is the ability to switch the resolution on the fly to create rolls. I can't see how you could do that the way its implemented now. Could we maybe get the ability to assign the patterns to a cc so we could switch them with a controller?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alternatively: would it be acceptable to switch only between 14 patterns, and to use the 1st GP button to turn on/off the feature, and the 16th GP button to switch back to the original page view?

 

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Acceptable? Are you serious? More than welcome! :-D

 

Could this on/off enabler be configurable? Switch or hold behavior, set in the config file? Or even switching this behavior by some multi button combo? Just a quick idea popping up after your proposal.

Edited by cube48

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now