Jump to content

LoopA V2 Introduction, Features & Support Thread


Hawkeye
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hola @JuanJerez,

welcome to the MIDIbox forums and great that you built a LoopA and that it already works! :cheers:
If I may ask, how was the build experience from your point of view?

---

Regarding your question:

I would recommend the following setup - i also have an X4 mini keyboard by the way, it's a cool and portable keyboard that fits perfectly with the LoopA! :)

1. Connect the X4 Mini via a MIDI cable to the LoopA MIDI IN1 port.

2. Go to the Track screen (same as in the picture) and change "Fw Off" to "Fw On" (MIDI forward on) -> this will forward any MIDI notes received from the X4 mini to the configured output device - in this case USB. The USB1 Chn 1 setting shown on the photo is correct, if you want to play a software synth/VST on your computer.

3. Arm the LoopA (the red LED on the ARM key lights up) and hit the RUN/STOP key on LoopA. The time cursor should start moving. When you now  play notes on the X4 mini, the notes should be recorded in the LoopA (instantly shown on the screen).

4. Very important and most likely problem: In your software synthesizer, configure the LoopA as an INPUT port for the software synthesizer, currently you have the X4 mini there (directly playing from the keyboard). That's why we moved the keyboard over to the LoopA.

Result: now you can record notes with your X4 mini directly on the LoopA, without the computer. As you enabled "forwarding", every note you play on the X4 mini is directly forwarded to your computer (USB 1, Chn 1). You've also already correctly set up your user instrument "ODSAY_VS" in the setup.txt, so you could select this output port in the LoopA instead of USB1 / Chn 1. Your VST (software instrument) must be configured to use the LoopA USB device as an INPUT (important!), then the VST will play the notes. When the LoopA is armed and looping, you will hear what you've recorded earlier on.

Now you can expand your setup, e.g. with other hardware synths (directly connected e.g. to MIDI OUT1-3 of the LoopA) or software synths.

Also, there should be a new LoopA software version coming soon, with more features, am working on it :).

Have fun, stay safe and best regards!
Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

welcome to the MIDIbox forums and great that you built a LoopA and that it already works! :cheers:
If I may ask, how was the build experience from your point of view?

Hey @Hawkeye  !!

Thank you very much for your invaluable help, now it works!

 

Regarding my build experience, I built it in 7 days while listening to Vangelis songs:

From my point of view the construction process has been easy due enormously to the clarity with which you explain in the assembly video. I have never soldered SDM components before !! Although I think I have a knack for it and have always tried to make fair and shiny welds.

Specifically, I had to cut some black plastic from the MCU board's JTAG connector because when assembling it collided with a pair of 100R or 220R resistors: (chapter timetable 30, 31 of the assembly video).

Also cut the pins of the MCU board so that they do not collide with the acrylic case
They were a little tedious because I had too big cutting pliers, but it is not a problem if you have the appropriate size cutting pliers.

---

We look forward to that new update!, with new functionalities to continue exploring the loopA.

!Saludos¡

Juan

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@JuanJerez, thanks a lot for your build report! Yes, definitely - every millimeter is used in the case, we did this on purpose to create a very slim unit, probably most other DIY builds with three layers of PCBs are a bit taller.

Hope you enjoy your new LoopA! Will notify in this thread, once the new software version is available! :)

Best regards,
Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

A LoopA firmware update with quite a few enhancements is now available for download. 1f642.png

New features:
* Now supporting 256, 512 and 1024 step-equivalent clip lengths (previous limit was 128) - you can now create clips with loop lengths of minutes 1f642.png.
* Improved display responsiveness/refresh rate, if the LoopA core is not under load
* Improved initial BPM/timing stability, just after a sequence was started
* Added customizable footswitch functions: choose any two of eleven new footswitch actions!
* The new "Cursor Erase" footswitch action overwrites clip notes under the time cursor, this allows for live re-recording of new notes while the sequencer is running
* The new "Jump To Precount" footswitch action allows jumping to a count-in point of a sequence, simplifying re-recording of a clip
* New option "Track Switch": when enabled, "long-pressing" a mute key directly switches to that track
* New Option "Tempo Up/Down": Configurable BPM delta speed (faster/slower buttons), perform linear BPM fades in five preconfigured speeds
* New Option "Follow Track": automatic track following when muting/unmuting, can be set to "disabled"/"when unmuting"/"when muting or unmuting"
* New Option "LED Notes": visualizes played notes via temporarily red illuminated track buttons in the MUTE screen - when the sequencer is running, this indicates which track is actively playing notes

Hope you enjoy! 1f642.png

large.K-LPA-02d-s.jpg.e323b9b71b86bdbe20

https://www.midiphy.com/en/loopa-v2/

Many greets,
Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

hi...was looking on midiphy - and the essential kit with metalcase is out of stock, while the metalcase itself is in stock. (maybe because of the button caps?)

i have a band project now where i dont only play the beats, but also the bass now... so i need a loopa....

when i buy a  kit without case: is there a describtion to place the right LED-Leg-Length - in order to build the ready soldered pcbs into a metalcase later?

 

thx 4 advice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, the L4 superellipse caps were very popular and we sold the last sets over the weekend. More caps inbound but will of course take their time at the moment.

Ordering a full kit would be possible if you were happy with the old clear-style caps, still some of those around. 

For LED soldering, you can just mount the LEDs flush against the PCB. They will not fit through the case cutouts anyway. One user wrapped his panel LEDs with heatshrink (Schrumpfschlauch) to block light from neighbouring positions. It's a personal preference though; some like the effect of LED mixing.

Best,
Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Phatline said:

ok i want to order the metalcase kit with the old caps - since i am in hurry... how we do that? - i have registered on midiphy.

Thanks for building one! :) We'll send out your kit tomorrow.

Hope you'll like building and using your new LoopA! Do we have a chance to see a stop-motion build video from you? :-) @Smithy created one video for the acrylic case LoopA, but there is none for the metal LoopA yet! :). Also, with the metal case you will not have to cut the 100 waveshare board pins, as there is enough room in the metal case - this should save some work! :)

Have a good evening and many greets,
Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi experts,

Having assembled my LoopA, I was running into an issue. The test mode works fine, the OLED and switches are OK.

But when I insert the memory card, formatted 2 GB FAT32, The device hangs in the start screen: one second with the scrolling animation, then three seconds hanging,  1sec animation, 3 sec hanging, etc. When I press the reset button, the screen remains black. I also tested another memory card. For my perspective all solder points, especially to the SD card holder seem perfect.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Robert, I've seen it happen that the SD slot can be soldered with too much heat and this can kill things. How was your soldering of it?

Check for continuity back to the 407v breakout pins, here's a convenient pinout of the SD card from the top:

3M-SD-pins-top.thumb.PNG.dd43c37fdf38484

NC NC NC PA6 0V PA5 +3v3 0V PA7 PB2 NC

I would suggest not to solder the three leftmost pins. You can also check for flux residue or shorts there.

Care to upload photos of your work? 

Best,
Andy

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Andy,

thank you for your hints, checked the pin traces, vacuumed solder from the 3 leftmost pins, did not help. 

Actually I inserted a smaller SD card with 512MB and it works now perfect! Is there a limitation of the memcard size? A 8GB SD card in my midibox sequencer works fine.

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Robert, great! 

I was thinking of suggesting that you trying another card, but you said you tried two and formatted already so I didn't want to patronise you. I can only think that certain card models don't work properly and we also notice that in the SEQ. I don't think there is an upper limit and I typically use 2 GiB SanDisk ones myself. You could try the 8GiB one in the LoopA for a true test of intercompatibility :)

Have fun!

Best,
Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Feature Request #001

I assume that this thread is also about wishes for the loopa. So I will drop here are some suggestions that came to my mind, playing around with this inspiring sequencer.

1. sometimes I would like to have a track sounding softer. So in the track view, we could assign the unused button 2 as “piano”, meaning all notes are played with half velocity. Or a dial between zero and hundred percent, but a simple piano button would be nicer.

2. configure the screensaver. I am not sure if the current voxel animation really preserves the OLED display. So completely switch off the display for screensaver. Or why not reenable the animation we have seen some years ago in Hawkeye’s YouTube video, where the animation corresponds to the rhythm?

3. Global Life transpose knob transposes only boring fourth/ fitth/ octave. I would like also to have the possibility for for a half tone or tierce.

What do you think?

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Robert,

glad it works now and thanks a lot for your feedback, that is always very welcome!

I'm currently working on v2.07, which should be released in a few weeks - it will have these new features:

a) CC recording support (finally! :)) - for smooth recorded filter sweeps and such :)
b) Additional single track progression mode instead of the standard full-scene progression: pushing the upper left encoder knob will switch between these modes - in single track progression you can then just replace a single clip instead of the full scene, i.e. you could progress the drum clip to the next scene while all other melody clips will continue to play in the current scene. This feature will also be required for the BLM/MatriX hardware extension integration for the LoopA, that then has discrete buttons for "launching any clips" out of the 6x6 clip matrix.
c) Potentially, but not yet confirmed/developed: support for track lengths different than powers of two, allowing for e.g. three quarter time sequences or polyrhythmic sequences (i know it's important on the paper, but really nobody requested it yet, everyone is obviously only using "common time"/four-four time currently :))

I'd be glad to add one of your feature requests to the next version as well! I've written down your requests in the wishlist for future firmware developments and would implement them as time is available - no objections against any of your ideas!

Short feedback regarding the ideas:

1. "Piano mode" would be a good "FX Screen" command, as unused key slot #2 in the "Track screen" is reserved for the new Track type selection (which will be used for the CC recording mode :)). Great idea with dampening the velocities of the currently active clip! We could also implement a "hold" key as well that would sustain all played notes while it is pressed, but we would have to be careful with the user interface, when six commands per screen are used up, no future extensions on that screen are possible - it is a design choice of the LoopA that it should be a simple and quick to use unit, that is not overloaded with features :).

2. No problem! Yes, we can just switch off the OLED, should be an easy config option. As the OLED does not shine at "mad brightness levels" like modern mobiles, the OLED life itself should be very good nevertheless - i still have my first 256x64 Newhaven OLED, that Thorsten helped me write the display driver for - that was back in 2011 - and it was on for very long and the brightness is still relatively good. The note playback animation from LoopA V1 was currently removed because it used quite a lot of memory, which i thought was better used elsewhere.

3. Yes, this is already planned for the future, but it will be a bit more time-intense to develop. But both the beatloop "time-jump" table as well as the transposition table should be ultimately configurable on a per session-basis, so you're not limited to the presets. The transposition selection will be implemented in the "LTr" - Live Transposition selection in the track screen, currently it is just off/on, later on you can choose a transposition table, that could be loaded from SD card for complete programmability.

Which feature would you prefer most in v2.07? :)

Have a good evening and best regards!
Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

Which feature would you prefer most in v2.07? :)

Hi Peter,

I would be eager in seeing the piano mode in the next version. And sure, a configurable time table would be great as well. How much resources are still available in the MCU? My dream is an algorithm that responds to the content of the notes played.

An afterplay sustain pedal mode would not be very useful for my playing, or I misunderstood the idea.

Also polyrhythmic tracks are nice for very short sequences, eg. 8 against 7, but for longer sequences or melodies, a time shift of some tracks does not make much sense, at least for me :-) 

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@momelq thanks Robert, that all makes sense - i'll notify you when there is a prerelease version with the temporary piano effect available for testing :).

The STM32F4 is a quite powerful MCU and there are still resources left - the sequencer engine eats not up that many cpu cycles, the rest is used as a low-priority background task for the display refreshes. So, if we add a CPU-hungry subroutine on a clip, the worst that would happen first is that the screen refresh rate goes down a bit - but of course, it all depends on how complex the algorithm would be. We've also got a bit of RAM to spare (depends a bit on the resolution of the CC storage). If you want to describe the algorithm (via email is also possible), i'd be all ears, but can't promise anything! :)

No temporary sustain FX then, it's probably really not necessary or could even be manually activated with separate sustain pedals of the connected synths.

Have a nice evening and best regards!
Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Peter,

For the pattern analyzer, I am thinking about like here: 

https://www.link.cs.cmu.edu/music-analysis/

but I will need time for some tests and simulations, before I can give good suggestions.

However, here some more and simpler feature requests :-)

- cosmetic change Tempo Setting: swap Faster/Slower buttons, as I would expect faster on the right side.

- A dedicated button for Midi Panic. E.g switching tracks with different midi-channels while playing on the keyboard sometimes disrupt the note-off event. Or implement a special handler for this case (forward note-off on previous channel).

- Undo last record / overdub

best wishes

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hiya!

I want to say I absolutely love the work done for both the SEQv4 and the LoopA. Although I'd love to build both, space is a factor and the SEQ is too big.

I have a question about LoopA (although I think I know the answer by reading the manual):

- Does it support step-sequencing style (either playing on a keyboard or entering/dialing a-la Seq4) input? The use case would be "I am really really bad at playing the keyboard and just want to enter it one note at a time"
- Maybe I got this completely wrong, but is it possible to somehow enter "events" in a scene (e.g. to move to another scene). I guess the use case would be "I want all my scenes to flow like a song and I finished the arrangement. at step 32 there's an event that triggers scene 2. at step 16 of scene 2 there's an event that triggers scene 3 - which is a duplicate of scene 1 except at step 16 it triggers scene 4". This is reminiscent of Polyend Seq's links 

- Would the midi files also have the same naming convention as they are displayed (eg. 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 3A, 3B, 3C etc.) for quickly import into a DAW. (or to splice from a DAW into the SD card to be played by the LoopA?)

- I've seen someone requesting different lengths per track (eg. for polyrhythms or system music) is this a possibility in a future upgrade?

I'm really keen on jumping on a LoopA although I'd have to figure out how to enter step sequences (and polyphonic ones at that). I could edit the midi to heart content but that's too slow for my specific workflow :(

Also, my final question for now - non LoopA related - can the SEQ v4 work with just the master module and one section? could it be made to work on a cut down size?

This is brilliant, looks amazing, the UI looks like it had many many hours to get the UX right. 
Great job! 
J

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would have to leave Peter to answer specifics about the LoopA firmware but I will see what I can answer.

19 hours ago, momelq said:

Hi Peter,

For the pattern analyzer, I am thinking about like here: 

https://www.link.cs.cmu.edu/music-analysis/

but I will need time for some tests and simulations, before I can give good suggestions.

However, here some more and simpler feature requests :-)

- cosmetic change Tempo Setting: swap Faster/Slower buttons, as I would expect faster on the right side.

I think I suggested that one too :)

 

19 hours ago, momelq said:

- Undo last record / overdub

 Might be tricky as the LoopA would have to track when things were last armed. But if there is a sensible way to do it and it's possible to code it I'm for it! 

 

17 hours ago, jplebre said:

Hiya!

I want to say I absolutely love the work done for both the SEQv4 and the LoopA. Although I'd love to build both, space is a factor and the SEQ is too big.

I have a question about LoopA (although I think I know the answer by reading the manual):

- Does it support step-sequencing style (either playing on a keyboard or entering/dialing a-la Seq4) input? The use case would be "I am really really bad at playing the keyboard and just want to enter it one note at a time"

It's a real-time MIDI recorder/looper so a different interface than a step sequencer. You still have to enter the notes by playing them but you can quantise after.

 

17 hours ago, jplebre said:

- Maybe I got this completely wrong, but is it possible to somehow enter "events" in a scene (e.g. to move to another scene). I guess the use case would be "I want all my scenes to flow like a song and I finished the arrangement. at step 32 there's an event that triggers scene 2. at step 16 of scene 2 there's an event that triggers scene 3 - which is a duplicate of scene 1 except at step 16 it triggers scene 4". This is reminiscent of Polyend Seq's links 

No "song mode" at the moment as far as I know. But maybe it will be added at some point.

 

17 hours ago, jplebre said:

- Would the midi files also have the same naming convention as they are displayed (eg. 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 3A, 3B, 3C etc.) for quickly import into a DAW. (or to splice from a DAW into the SD card to be played by the LoopA?)

No MIDI export at the moment but it's on the list. I don't know the naming structure.

 

17 hours ago, jplebre said:

- I've seen someone requesting different lengths per track (eg. for polyrhythms or system music) is this a possibility in a future upgrade?

On the list!

 

17 hours ago, jplebre said:

I'm really keen on jumping on a LoopA although I'd have to figure out how to enter step sequences (and polyphonic ones at that). I could edit the midi to heart content but that's too slow for my specific workflow :(

What is your specific workflow? If you want to edit individual steps then a knob-per step is best, hence the SEQ. If you want to "noodle" a jam and tidy it after, then LoopA.

 

17 hours ago, jplebre said:

Also, my final question for now - non LoopA related - can the SEQ v4 work with just the master module and one section? could it be made to work on a cut down size?

No, the UI requires both 40x2 OLED displays and a knob/"GP button" per step.

 

17 hours ago, jplebre said:

This is brilliant, looks amazing, the UI looks like it had many many hours to get the UX right. 
Great job! 
J

Thanks! All was based on Peter's initial concept with some minor additions.

 

 

Best,
Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@momelq thanks for the very interesting link to the music analysis tool - i think something like this should be doable as a future extension, if we can define/narrow down the function properly.

I'm currently working on a new v2.07 prerelease version of the LoopA and will incorporate the smaller things like the piano fx command, moved faster/slower keys, a screensaver mode that allows completely turning off the screen and will report back to you with that version - we're also just working on the bigger MatriX, so time is at a premium at the moment, but will do what we can :).

An undo feature has been requested before - the problem is as Andy says, it's very hard to know when a recording started or stops (to know when the undo buffer needs to be filled) - i.e., when you are in "armed" mode you could record at any time - especially so when we extend the LoopA for CC recording, there might be just a CC event automatically "recorded" that you're not even aware of, e.g. a minimal modwheel position change/glitch.

But there's a manual solution for this: what i currently do (before recording over any "good" clip at least) is to just push "copy" and copy that clip into the memory buffer of the LoopA - when overdubbing/jamming failed (often so! :)), i just push "paste" to revert to the previous state - this makes experimentation/jamming easy, as you need not fear to destroy a previously recorded already nice-sounding clip.

Also, i've got the hanging notes on the radar - these should normally not occur, as the sequencer engine should handle those, but, you're right, i also managed to trigger them from time to time, i.e. i know it happens, when a key/note that is live-forwarded to a synth is pressed, then the track channel is changed and then the note is released, then the original synth will not get the MIDI note off anymore, as the "track config" changed.

A "MIDI panic" key-combination would be easiest to implement and might be the solution to go for - but probably a general solution could also be found.

@jplebre thanks for your nice words and your interest in the LoopA! Andy has answered most already, there is one more note - we're currently working on the bigger MatriX extension basically for the SEQ v4+, but your LoopA will also be supported by it - with the MatriX you will be able to do "step style graphical sequence recording" on the LoopA, similar to the SEQ v4+. But Andy is right - the SEQ v4+ is the step sequencer with lots of features, the LoopA is more of a (possibly) unquantized noteroll sequencer/idea generator not optimized for single note entry - the SEQ has the clear advantage in this area with its big single-note displays and 16 dedicated encoders for note adjustment. But: you can reduce the tempo of the LoopA and slowly (at e.g. 30bpm) "type in" a sequence. In conjunction with the inbuilt metronome this works surprisingly well even for complicated sequences. With the quantization you can then get rid of any "human" timing errors - give it a try, it's not that much different from "note-by-note" sequence entering known from the step sequencers.

We currently don't support MIDI export/import in the LoopA, but could implement it in a later firmware, if there are enough requests. But maybe it's not really necessary - exporting/importing MIDI files via SD card or MIOS studio filebrowser will never be really a "fun job" or straightforward, as files have to be first created and then copied around. But what already works really nicely is to connect your LoopA to any other sequencer or DAW and live-transfer the sequences, just record them live over to the other sequencer/DAW. I've been doing this often with the SEQ v4+ and the LoopA - both units are MIDI clock synchronized and a "step" on the LoopA (if quantized) will be on the exact same step on the SEQ v4+. So, you can take your portable LoopA with you, record some melody ideas and later on attach it to any other sequencer, just record from there and refine those ideas.

Regarding your last question of reducing the SEQ footprint - as Andy said, i don't think it makes much sense, you just need all function/displays of the SEQ for  proper use, even if it looks slightly intimidating, it is not that large, it's about ~44 x ~13 x ~8cm and filled to the top with electronics, not much space is wasted in there :).

Many greets,
Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

when I'm programming the core, I cant seem to get the program to stick, I see the ports in the MIOS studio, I can query the core, get the upload request and I can send the project hex but after its done and I power cycle it, i'm right back to the bootloader like there is no app, thoughts?

 

PS: Peter, you should look into a side hustle doing ASMR stuff

Edited by Altitude
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Altitude thanks, just considered opening up an ASMR channel if everything else fails, but then googled it and saw there is some unfair competition out there :decayed:.

The soldering should be flawless on your side, so i scratched my head and remembered @Smithy having a similar problem - it turned out he used an old MIOS Studio version, which would not be able to talk properly with the new bootloader - could you check if you're using the newest MIOS Studio 2.4.9?

Another idea - are you by chance using a Mac? With their newest O.S. i think the USB ports are not renamed after flashing a firmware via MIOS Studio - that would mean you'd already have the LoopA software on, but the USB port is still listed as MIOS bootloader - if that's the case, there is a way to reset the USB cache, quoting TK.:

"So far we only noticed a minor issue when an app changes the number of USB MIDI ports or the device name. Such changes won't be taken over automatically, instead you've to delete the old interface description in the Audio-MIDI-Setup:

  • start the Audio-MIDI-Setup of MacOS (e.g. search for "audio-midi" with Spotlight)
  • disconnect the core module from USB
  • delete the interface in the Audio-MIDI-Setup
  • connect the core module to USB again"

If that also was not the cause, i think there should be the option to directly connect a mini-USB Cable to the waveshare daughterboard on top of the LoopA core - then i think the Waveshare Core power selection switch needs to be set to USB - this should then allow MIOS Studio to upload the hex directly. If that worked, there might be a connectivity problem between Waveshare core and the LoopA core USB port.

If uploading via the mini USB port also fails, we'd kindly ask for pictures of the front and backside of the core PCB to have a closer look :)

Best regards!
Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...