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New user with some questions


iplaysid
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Cheers, I bought a sammichSID that was half put together; took me a while to source the SID chips and the rest of the components but finally got it working.

Now I have some questions that going through the manual didn't really find much of an answer; sorry in advance if those are too simple or easy for you.

1) The UI is quite daunting; so I am trying to set up the editor made in CTRL, but I was wondering if there are patch sets that users did share. It is  much easier to start with a patch and experiment on it, compared to  create them from scratch. So I was wondering if there is more than one bank of patches shared by users

2)My understanding of the banks is that there are 8 banks: A through H; although the patch editor in Mios studio seems to be able to see only banks A, B, C, D and H, while E and F are fundamentally not reachable. Why is that? Did I do something wrong when building the device and burned the IC that host the banks E and F?

3) If I want to drive the device from a sequencer for example; is there a way to switch programs and banks via CC? The midi implementation in the documentation has no info in regard to the CC used to change the program. I see that CC0 at hex 00h does change bank for example, but CC0 does not exist on my controller, it has 1 to 127, so I am not sure how to change programs remotely, because there is no such command via CC on the chart. Does anyone here address their Sammich via CC messages?

4) I see that my display show 1***, although I have 2 SID chip in it; so shouldn't it display 11**; since each of those numbers show the SID slotted in the device? The midibox SID which is the base for the Sammich, support 4 SID theoretically, right?

5) The device I have did came pre-installed with the OS; at boot it says MIOS 1.9g and then MidiboxSID v2.0rc38; do I have the latest version of the firmware on it? I am using MIOS Studio 2.4.9 on my computer. If I need to update the firmware, is there a guide that show it step by step? I never did anything like this to be honest.

Thanks in advance for any help; I printed the manual and I am having quite a blast playing with all the parameters; I just wish to have a more extensive interface with physical knobs and buttons, like my other hardware synths; but this device is magical, especially for someone coming from a C64 in his youth, so thanks for making this possible.

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Nice! Enjoy, it's a great synth! Answers to your Qs:

1. Yes, there's the default patch set, 127 Arps (on the forum), and I think a few others on the forum. You'll have to poke around for those but they exist. The default patch set is a good place to start. CTRLR works though I tended to have issues with it while using my DAW so I mostly just went through the painstaking process of editing patches on the Sammich as I didn't often need to use the advanced features (like wavetables). This is where the MB6582 (the sammichSID's much bigger brother) or a custom MBSID with a full control surface becomes useful since you don't have to step out of your DAW as much. If you have trouble with CTRLR, the standalone SID patch editor is another thing to try (it's on ucapps.de).

2. I believe sammichSID only has 5 banks (4 normal patches, 1 for ensembles). Been a while since I opened mine up but I'm pretty sure this is the case.

3. Yes, should work like normal program changes do on other synths. That's been the case for me anyway. Note when you switch patches you may hear some audio pops.

4. No, sammichSID runs the 2 SIDs in a stereo pair. MBSID itself can support up to 8 SIDs (4 pairs), though most folks going that route would use the MB6582 boards (that's what I did) since it saves a ton of space over using the individual boards, although you definitely can do it that way as well.

5. I dunno off hand you'll have to go look (ucapps.de is the place to go for firmware)

Hope that helps! I will say some of these Qs you should find answers to in the docs, so giving them a good read will be really useful, especially for your first question (patch editing) as there's LOTS you can do with these synths but, to your point, given the sammichSID's more barebones control surface, it takes a bit more understanding of what things do when working on it.

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Thanks for your reply!

1) is the editor page this one? http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual_ed.html

I found the CTRLR editor there, and the other option is the java editor, which I will try on my windows machine

2) so I am OK if it just show 4 banks. Thanks!

3) how do you achieve that? Do you know which CC channel is sending out the program change and bank change? I tried all the 127 CC values and neither did work

4) I see, so it is expected to see just the 1***, since it is one stereo pair.

5) found a firmware on ucapps.de that seems newer than the one I have; although I do not understand if I need to update the firmware for the bootloader first and then update the actual device firmware or not. The documentation is not super clear, or I am just not much of a hardware engineer :)

Thanks again for the hints; I am really glad I went the SID way :)

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hi,

3) use PC messages, not CCs.

4) right - you have 1 stereo pair. (you can stuff up to 8 sids by 4 cores), but i am not sure how many cores can be loaded in sammichSID because I am not familar with sammich board.

5) pls use the "mios studio" software. and yes first upload the newer bootloader MIOS and then the application. Everything can be uploaded via midi, but take care about the core IDs and the correct bootloader MIOS file.

MBSID V2.044 changelog: Please update to MIOS V1.9h before uploading the application, otherwise the improvements won't be effective.

have fun with the synth!

Edited by Rio
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19 hours ago, Rio said:

hi,

3) use PC messages, not CCs.

Thanks! Is that the only way? My core device is an Akai Force; it can send out CC messages using the knobs, but I don't see a way to do that via PC. The only way you can use PC is when selecting the midi channel properties; so it is a setting you change when editing the channel, not something done at runtime (like when playing live). This is why I was hoping to use CC messages.

 

19 hours ago, Rio said:

4) right - you have 1 stereo pair. (you can stuff up to 8 sids by 4 cores), but i am not sure how many cores can be loaded in sammichSID because I am not familar with sammich board.

Awesome; the board has only space for 2; so I guess I can either use the 2 as stereo pair, or as 2 different mono devices (which should give me a total of 6 oscillators and 6 notes, if I understand this correctly; since each SID has 3 oscillators that can be played together or individually).

19 hours ago, Rio said:

5) pls use the "mios studio" software. and yes first upload the newer bootloader and then the application. Everything can be uploaded via midi, but take care about the core IDs and the correct bootloader file.

MBSID V2.044 changelog: Please update to MIOS V1.9h before uploading the application, otherwise the improvements won't be effective.

have fun with the synth!

Thanks for the clarification! So in the mios studio I upload the hex with the bootloader first, then the hex with the new MIOS and that should just work. I hope I won't brick the device... I am always nervous around anything that is not an arduino :)

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Oh my fault ... I meant MIOS. You only upload the newer MIOS version with the bootloader (which is already burned on the microchip). You don’t upload the bootloader itself!! (that's for a burner and not for midi transmission). 

Sorry, my confusion in the binary term - I just recognized it now. I hope you read it before trying, but however, MIOS Studio should warn you about this (range detection).

from the readme.txt of mios1.9h take case A):

A) you've already installed MIOS8 V1.9g, and want to update to MIOS8 V1.9h

Thats the common case, you have to upload one of these files 
via MIDI as described on the http://www.ucapps.de/mios_bootstrap.html page
depending on the PIC derivative you are using.

...

PIC18F4685:
   -> pic18f4685\midi\mios8_v1_9h_pic18f4685.hex

upload the mios1.9h hex and then you can upload the MBSIDv2 app again. 

Edited by Rio
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Yes very good! I just wanted to make sure that the wrong thing is not accidentally uploaded, although the "MIOS Studio" already warns or maybe blocks this. Your bootloader is fine on your PIC just MIOS and the app needs to be uploaded in order. You can't screw up a lot there either. Otherwise just upload the two things again. Have fun and don't hesitate to ask :D

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Quote

Awesome; the board has only space for 2; so I guess I can either use the 2 as stereo pair, or as 2 different mono devices (which should give me a total of 6 oscillators and 6 notes, if I understand this correctly; since each SID has 3 oscillators that can be played together or individually).

I'm not sure now whether your plan matches what has already been implemented with the MBSID. There are 4 sound engines, take a look here:

  • Lead Engine
  • Bassline Engine
  • Drum Engine
  • Multi Engine

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_manual.html

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  • 2 weeks later...

You can use them just as a stereo pair (and polyphonic) or you would need a second core for the other sid. 

@RioI can't figure out how to save an edited Bass or Drumengine part. If I want to save, not possible. So I thought, Ok, it's because of the engine and I need to choose the ensemble Bank H but this doesn't work either.

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