Help needed again!

Twin-X · September 25, 2004

Ok i am fed up with it. Who wants too look at my quad sid. I will pay for all inexpenses.

If not then i will sell the unit.

I have tried everything and despite the help i have recieved nothing helps. I am blaming myself let that be clear.

Anyway pm me if you want to have a look at it.

TK. · September 26, 2004

Hi Twin-X,

don't panic! We can help you via remote, you only need to explain more details about your observations so that it's easier for us to give you more explicit tips.

So, your SIDs are working, you are able to play sounds, but there is no response from the control surface, right?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Screaming_Rabbit · September 26, 2004

Hey Twin-x

HEADS UP! :D I think nobody is blaming himself in this forum. - Just go on trying to make that "quad SUCKER" ;D work.

Greets and all the best luck!

Roger

illogik · September 26, 2004

hey twin-x,

you live in holland, right? I live in rotterdam and i've made a MB(single)SID with complete cs, if you live near rotterdam, maybe we can look at your midibox together.

send me a pm or something and we'll see

marcel

Twin-X · September 27, 2004

Hello all,

Thank you so much for taking effort in trying to help me out.

I have had a lot of sid problems since the control unit didn't work.

So i wish to start from the beginning.

First issue!

My optimized psu is not giving the right voltages!

I get 6.13V on the +5 and 11.06V on the 14VDC connected to ground of the power-led

What can be broke the regulator?

TK. · September 27, 2004

Hi Twin-X,

So i wish to start from the beginning.

very good idea! I'm sure that we can clarify all issues when debugging the modules step-by-step.

My optimized psu is not giving the right voltages!
I get 6.13V on the +5 and 11.06V on the 14VDC connected to ground of the power-led

+5V: for the original C64 PSU it's normal that the output voltage is a little bit higher if no load is connected. The voltage should drop to the nominal value once the core module (especially when a backlit LCD) is connected.

Could you please try the following: remove all ICs from the core module, connect only the LCD (+backlight!). Then connect the +5/ground output of the PSU circuit to J2 of the core module and measure the voltage. The result should be in the range between 4.5V and 5.5V

14V: so long the voltage at pin 28 (Vdd) of the SID is less than 12V, the internal audio amplifier won't work correctly, and you won't hear anything. So, your first goal will be to bring this voltage (behind the 7812 of the SID module) to 12V.

Here the same: remove all ICs from the SID module. A certain load is not required for this test. Connect the ground and +14V output of the PSU circuit to J1 of the SID module and measure the voltage between ground and pin 28 of the SID socket. Which value do you see?

Measure also the voltage at J1, is it still 11.06V, or higher?

If this doesn't help, following input would be interesting:

the voltage between pin 1 and 2 of the 7809 of the PSU circuit
the voltage between pin 2 and 3 of the 7809
the voltage before the rectifier of the PSU circuit (note: it's AC, you have to select this at your multimeter)
is your PSU from an old C64 or from a C64 II (which contains the 8580 instead of the 6581)

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Twin-X · September 28, 2004

I removed all chips.

Could you please try the following: remove all ICs from the core module, connect only the LCD (+backlight!). Then connect the +5/ground output of the PSU circuit to J2 of the core module and measure the voltage. The result should be in the range between 4.5V and 5.5V

It's 5.17V

14V: so long the voltage at pin 28 (Vdd) of the SID is less than 12V, the internal audio amplifier won't work correctly, and you won't hear anything. So, your first goal will be to bring this voltage (behind the 7812 of the SID module) to 12V.
Here the same: remove all ICs from the SID module. A certain load is not required for this test. Connect the ground and +14V output of the PSU circuit to J1 of the SID module and measure the voltage between ground and pin 28 of the SID socket. Which value do you see?

It's 12.01V

Measure also the voltage at J1, is it still 11.06V, or higher?

It's 14.11V

the voltage between pin 1 and 2 of the 7809 of the PSU circuit
the voltage between pin 2 and 3 of the 7809
the voltage before the rectifier of the PSU circuit (note: it's AC, you have to select this at your multimeter)
is your PSU from an old C64 or from a C64 II (which contains the 8580 instead of the 6581)

1. 12.05V

2. 8.93V

3. 9.5VAC

The PSU is from a C64 I i have tried two of them. Both of the PSU same results.

Cheers,

Jeffry

TK. · September 28, 2004

Hi Jeffry,

could it be that your multimeter is not working? Which kind of measuring instrument are you using, do you have to calibrate it?

Because:

6.7V instead of 5V makes ca. 30% error

15.6V instead of 12V makes ca. 30% error

11.6V instead of 9V makes ca. 30% error

so, you always have an offset of ca. 30%

Do you have a 7805 and a second PSU?

Solder the 7805 to the core module and power it from J1, which value do you measure at J2, 5V or 6.7V?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

pay_c · September 28, 2004

Not the answer to above, but I also just wanted to bring your mood up again, TwinX!!

My SID didnÂ´t work properly for about four months with no improvement (*really* weird random sounds here and there). Just after installing the MIOS update with the hardware change everything is fine! Neither TK nor me really do know what was wrong up to today. But **** it does work!

So: DONÂ´T YOU DARE TO GIVE UP!! :-X ;) ;D

The SID *is* some hell of a sound machine, itÂ´s worth it! Up to now TK solved every prob so heads up!

*Pressing all those thumbs I have and donÂ´t really need now*

Greetz & good luck & good mood!

Twin-X · September 28, 2004

Hi Jeffry,
could it be that your multimeter is not working? Which kind of measuring instrument are you using, do you have to calibrate it?
Because:
Â 6.7V instead of 5V makes ca. 30% error
Â 15.6V instead of 12V makes ca. 30% error
Â 11.6V instead of 9V makes ca. 30% error
so, you always have an offset of ca. 30%
Do you have a 7805 and a second PSU?
Solder the 7805 to the core module and power it from J1, which value do you measure at J2, 5V or 6.7V?
Best Regards, Thorsten.

I have a el cheapo multimeter. The battery seems dead almost. I am gonna try it again tomorrow with new battery!

Pac_c thanks for cheering me up. I will have a good night rest now :D

Twin-X · September 28, 2004

I have changed the battery of the multimeter.

And rechecked voltages.

I have changed values in the post above!

What should i do now? I have burned the pic with the bootstrap loader v1.1B

Dave_Wheeler · September 28, 2004

Well Done Twin-X,

Voltages are looking far better (working meter makes the difference :))

What I would do next is double check the power supply to both the PIC and the OPTO to ensure that they are approx 5V. If this is correct, I would populate the core and see if you can talk to it (using MidiOx)

So far So good.

Dave

Twin-X · September 29, 2004

Hi Dave,

The mesuared values are:

IC1:MCLR(1) - IC1:Vss(12) = 5.18V

IC1:Vdd(11) - IC1:Vss(12) = 5.18V

IC1:Vdd(32) - IC1:Vss(31) = 5.18V

IC2"8" - IC2:"5" = 5.18V

Midi ox is giving this to me every 2 seconds:

 TIMESTAMP IN PORT STATUS DATA1 DATA2 CHAN NOTE EVENT Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  
 000039F9 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  8 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7
 0000415F Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  8 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7
 000048C4 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  8 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7
 0000502A Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  8 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7
 00005790 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  8 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7
 00005EF5 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  8 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7
 0000665B Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  8 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7
 00006DC1 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  8 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 01 F7

Jeffry

Dave_Wheeler · September 29, 2004

Hi Twin-X,

Thats Good. The Sysex that you are seeing is the bootloader prompting for MIOS download. Now comes the fun...

In Midiox, select 'View' Sysex and check the configuration. I use 256 byte buffers * 16 with 750MS delay after F7 and I also use 100MS delay between buffers. Load mios_v_1_7.syx by selecting 'Command Window' Load File. Once loaded select 'Command Window' Send Sysex. If your Sysex settings are working you should see some different sysex in the Input window (The Type of message is listed on the Mios page)

You may have to 'play' with the settings to get reliable communications.

Good Luck.

Dave

Twin-X · September 29, 2004

Mios loaded

 Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 0E F7
 00002D74 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 34 F7
 00003264 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 3A F7
 0000375A Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 3F F7
 00003C49 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 5D F7
 00004134 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 20 F7
 00004623 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 42 F7
 00004B13 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 28 F7
 00005002 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 59 F7
 000054F7 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 0C F7
 000059E6 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 7C F7
 00005ED1 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 10 F7
 000063C1 Â  5 Â -- Â  Â  F0 Â Buffer: Â  Â  9 Bytes Â  System Exclusive Â  Â  Â 
 SYSX: F0 00 00 7E 40 00 0F 53 F7

It stopped with the giving a line every 2 seconds

Twin-X · September 29, 2004

I have a nice ready screen on my LCD (this is the third lcd the other two seem broke)

What is the next step?

Do i load setup_6581_with_cs.syx or do i load main.syx

Or must i solder the control panel wiring first.

Or shoud i stuff the SID before applying the sid files?

TIA

TK. · September 29, 2004

Very good progress! :)

Yes, now you can stuff the SID and upload the setup_6581_with_cs.syx file - although the filename could imply that this .syx is only for control surface option, it will also work without the appr. hardware.

So: after the upload, send some notes to the core module.

You can use the virtual keyboard of MIDI-Ox for this test. It can be activated via Actions->Keyboard. Then press some keys (Q W E R T) to play the notes.

If you don't hear any sound, we have to continue with the mbsid_interconnection_test...

Best Regards, Thorsten.

Dave_Wheeler · September 29, 2004

Hi Twin-X

Excellent, If you don't have your LCD connected yet, its time to break out the soldering iron.

I would then suggest connecting the SID board with no chips fitted and check voltages on the shift registers and SID are correct. Don't forget when you connect the SID board that there is a wiring change for V1.7 (on the MIOS page somewhere)

If all is well, the 74HC595's can be fitted and then load the SID interconnection test software. This can be used to check the shift registers are working correctly, I think there is a small 'bug' in that when you go from D7 to CS, D7 may stay active.

L8R

Dave

Twin-X · September 30, 2004

I would then suggest connecting the SID board with no chips fitted and check voltages on the shift registers and SID are correct. Don't forget when you connect the SID board that there is a wiring change for V1.7 (on the MIOS page somewhere)

IC1:Vcc(25) - IC1:Vss(14) = 5.18V

IC2:Vdd(16) - IC2:Vss(8) = 5.18V

IC3:Vdd(16) - IC3:Vss(8) = 5.18V

If all is well, the 74HC595's can be fitted and then load the SID interconnection test software. This can be used to check the shift registers are working correctly, I think there is a small 'bug' in that when you go from D7 to CS, D7 may stay active.

Ok i have just tested the notes thing i hope this is not really nbecesarry but if so i will do the test

You can use the virtual keyboard of MIDI-Ox for this test. It can be activated via Actions->Keyboard. Then press some keys (Q W E R T) to play the notes.

Yes i hear notes

Both of you thanks!

So what is the next step?

Connect the control panel?

First leds than buttons or should i do both?

Dave_Wheeler · September 30, 2004

Hey Twin-X,

Noises from your SID......Great.

I would do the DIN stuff first and then the DOUT but it depends how your control surface is wired.

I 'always' leave out the chips first and then check power is in the right places at 5V. Once happy with the power supply, plug in the chips, (TK is there a DIN or DOUT test application ??)

Good Luck,

Dave

September 30, 2004

Dont give up Twin!!I love the way you have all rallied round to help Twin.

You guys seem to be very close to cracking your probs and thats great news.

Twin helped me a few months ago by burning a PIC for me so hes giving back to the community by good deeds too!

Keep it up guys

Mark ;)

Twin-X · September 30, 2004

Hey Twin-X,
Noises from your SID......Great.
I would do the DIN stuff first and then the DOUT but it depends how your control surface is wired.
I 'always' leave out the chips first and then check power is in the right places at 5V. Once happy with the power supply, plug in the chips, (TK is there a DIN or DOUT test application ??)
Good Luck,
Dave

Hi Dave,

I connected J1 of DIN to J9 of Core

Pin 8 and 16 on all chips is 5.13V of the DIN

When i stuff all chips and power on synth then only the 1 st button of the DIN works (i followed the schematic and this is selection button 1 on J3)

Is it because my last DIN is not fully build? I only wired the 1st chip.

Cheers,

Jeffry

p.s. Thanks Mark420 for your kind words ;)

Dave_Wheeler · October 1, 2004

HI Twin-X

Not sure what will happen with chips missing, the code in cs_menu_io_tables.inc looks for 9 chips.

As an experiment, you could recompile V1.6 with a reduced number of inputs or build the rest of the hardware.

Not sure though....Anyone else know ??

Dave

Twin-X · October 1, 2004

HI Twin-X
Not sure what will happen with chips missing, the code in cs_menu_io_tables.inc looks for 9 chips.
As an experiment, you could recompile V1.6 with a reduced number of inputs or build the rest of the hardware.
Not sure though....Anyone else know ??
Dave

Hi Dave,

No i have phrased my story wrong.

I have 9 chips only the rest of the pcb is not stuffed (the last three that are available) i have 3 din pcbs. 2 Fully stuffed and the last one only 1 chip.

Jef

Dave_Wheeler · October 1, 2004

Sorry Jef,

Your English is much better than my Dutch :-)

OK, are you using PCB's from Mike or Smash or home made ??

I would check all the links are fitted first, don't forget the links on the track side of the board.

Then with the chips removed, could you check that all the inputs are at 5V (they are pulled up by the 10K's)

Dave

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