How to add a midi out socket to USB Midi keyboard ?

[ohmstudiste]

I recently purchased the Korg Legacy Collection wich comes with a MS20 controller. Works very nice.

Only thing is that the thing is USB only.

So I wanted to know how difficult is it to add a standard midi socket.

Two other things I like to add:

-The keyboard only transmit on channel 1. Is it possible to modify it in order to be able to transmit on 16 channel (using a button to chose midi channel)

-Two buttons that transmits program changes

Let me know if any of these mods are realistic or not  ;D

[greenfox]

I am by no means an expert in these matters, however I think I can give a suggestion for changing the Midi channel.

The program MIDIOX (http://www.midiox.com/) has a lot of useful MIDI functions.  One of them is to be able to read incomming MIDI and convert it, then send it out.  (This will only work if MIDIOX is able to read your USB input).  The program you are using will then read its MIDI input from MIDIOX output and not your USB keyboard.

I hope this is of some help.

[ohmstudiste]

Thanx for the reply.

I know MidiOx, I use it almost every day to route, filter etc my gear and I know it's easy to do this with the software.

But what I want to do is have a hardware interface on the keyboard and to have the channel selection and program change hardware too.

[stryd_one]

You've really got two issues, a USB-MIDI converter and a midi filter/processor. The filter/processor is already written but I don't know enough about USB MIDI or the MBHP-USB module to tell you if the converter part is possible with a MIDIBox. Anyone?

[ohmstudiste]

The most important part for me is to get the Midi OUT socket, so the USB to MIDI interface. Because once I got the Out socket, I can merge the data into some other gear for instance.

I wasn't necessarly looking for a MidiBox solution, just wanted to know if this is possible and how.

Thanx for the reply

[stryd_one]

Well anything's possible. Obviously you could use a old PC with a USB input and software to route it to a gameport output, it's a cheap and easy solution.

An embedded solution like a MIDIBox could almost certainly do the same job, but I'm not the one to advise on how to go about it...

[ohmstudiste]

I think you didn't get want I want to do...

I have this keyboard with a USB midi interface. What I want is use this keyboard standalone, to control other hardware.

I don't want it to be connected to a computer so I need a Midi Out din socket.

I asked if it was possible to use the imbedded usb interface and add a socket or if I had to build a new standard keyboard midi interface.

[jimhenry]

I don't know if there is anyone here who knows USB-MIDI deeply enough to advise you.  If you don't mind gutting the keyboard it would probably be a surer path to success to simply replace the existing keyboard electronics with a MIDIbox.  Trying to take advantage of the USB interface looks like an uphill battle to me.  Trying to add any additional controls to use the existing electronics sounds particularly difficult.

[stryd_one]

I think you didn't get want I want to do...

I have this keyboard with a USB midi interface. What I want is use this keyboard standalone, to control other hardware.

I don't want it to be connected to a computer so I need a Midi Out din socket.

I asked if it was possible to use the imbedded usb interface and add a socket or if I had to build a new standard keyboard midi interface.

I know what you're asking.

I don't think you understand enough about the question you are asking, which is proved by saying this:

I don't want it to be connected to a computer so I need a Midi Out din socket.

How do you think the USB MIDI is converted to normal MIDI? Magic? You HAVE to use a computer!!

That computer could be an embedded system like a MIDIBox, or a dedicated PC. I told you how it would be possible on a dedicated PC.

The theory is the same with a MIDIBox - but I don't know that much about MIDI over USB, so I don't know if the MBHP USB module is suitable for using as a USB MIDI input, which can then be routed to the standard MIDI output.

I hope you understand.

[ohmstudiste]

Well I was asking for some hardware modification to have a standard midi interface with a standard DIN socket and asked if it was possible to use part of the imbedded USB interface... in order not to use a computer  ;)

Get my point ?

I already have a MIDI interface for my computer so I can already control and filter the keyboard to send it back to other hardware. But i'm asking for a way to do it hardware.

Forget the USB, consider I have a electronic keyboard that needs a standard MIDI interface, what are the options ?

[stryd_one]

I got your point, you got your answer....

[jimhenry]

Forget the USB, consider I have a electronic keyboard that needs a standard MIDI interface, what are the options ?

Have you looked inside your keyboard?  Do you know if the keys are wired with a diode matrix?

The MIDIIO128 project is the most likely choice for MIDIfying a keyboard.  The easiest way to use it is to have up to 128 switch closures that generate MIDI messages as you define in a table.  You will need a core board and 1 DIN board for each 32 switch inputs.

There is an experimental project for using a diode matrix switch.  It probably is pretty close to usable for what you want to do but documentation and support will be minimal.  For this you need the core board, 1 DIN board, and 1 DOUT board.  If you want to build your own boards, you actually only need 1 DIN chip and 1 DOUT chip for 64 inputs.

[doc]

Hi,

Well I was asking for some hardware modification to have a standard midi interface with a standard DIN socket and asked if it was possible to use part of the imbedded USB interface... in order not to use a computer

I know what you mean....but the legacy MS20 Controller does not have a midi out. If you want to modify this, you have three possibilities:

1) You can build a midibox (this means: destroying your controller and reuse the case).  The benefit: You can design your controller as you like. But you might lost some features from your Korg Controller.

2) You can try to modify the USB Device of the legacy MS20 Controller. This may be possible if you know which USB Controller is inside and if you are able to "Crack" it. Normally you won't be able to do this, because you must have the sourcecode from Korg. I'm pretty sure this can't be done. Actual Industrial design normally don't let you enough room for modifikations like this.

3) You can look inside (like jimhenry suggest) and check how the keyboard is connected. Perhaps there is a way to midify the legacy MS20 twice. Means you can leave the original controller as it is and build a additional midikeyboard (midicontroller) around it. I think, this would be the best way, without destroying the controller.

greets

Doc

[henrygr]

This may be a silly suddestion, but have you tried connecting a USB/midi interface to it (like the M-Audio Uno), and simply using the Midi Out Din Terminal from that?

[DrBunsen]

Everybody understands the difference between a USB host and a USB device, right?

[ohmstudiste]

Thanx for the replies and sorry for the delay, I've been more than busy.

3) You can look inside (like jimhenry suggest) and check how the keyboard is connected. Perhaps there is a way to midify the legacy MS20 twice. Means you can leave the original controller as it is and build a additional midikeyboard (midicontroller) around it. I think, this would be the best way, without destroying the controller.

DOC, you understood what I meant (at least someone did). This is exactly what I was asking at first. I haven't checked inside the MS20 so I'll do that as soon as I have some time.

This would be the idea: to add a second controller (or modify the first one) in order to use the keyboard as a standalone MIDI keyboard.

Henrygr

This may be a silly suddestion, but have you tried connecting a USB/midi interface to it (like the M-Audio Uno), and simply using the Midi Out Din Terminal from that?

This is not possible, that's what DrBunsen means by USB host and device. Both M-audio and MS20 are devices so that need a host (the computer).

[DrBunsen]

I really think the simplest solution is going to be a free or cheap second-hand Pentium 1 era laptop with some DOS, Win or Linux MIDI routing software on it.  Or possibly an embedded x86 single board computer inside the case, or hanging off the back.  I strongly suspect that the Legacy speaks to the Korg software in some non-standard ways, and it might be hard to do what you want even in software, in which case you're back to the idea of re-wiring every single control to a new custom MIDIbox.

For those who haven't seen the Legacy, there's more to it than just a keyboard.  There are knobs and patch points (plugs and cables) on the control surface that emulate a Korg MS-20 analogue synth, and speak to the matching software synth in the computer.

On the other hand, is there info in the manual about controlling the software from a standard MIDI controller?  Is it possible to map -every- function of the Legacy keyboard to a standard MIDI message?  If so you might be in luck, if you can gain access to and decode the raw data from the internal hardware.

[docbrown]

For those who haven't seen the Legacy, there's more to it than just a keyboard.  There are knobs and patch points (plugs and cables) on the control surface that emulate a Korg MS-20 analogue synth, and speak to the matching software synth in the computer.

I completely agree with DrBunsen. Even rewiring the keyboard controller alone will be tough.

Lets say you are just wiring up the keyboard not including the knobs, patch cable and other stuff. How do you go about sensing individual key velocity and Pitch wheel? Have any body here in this community have successfully wired up those features yet? Because, I would like to know also. ???

[henrygr]

Thornsten did a post some years back on a successful matrix. Look up 'diode matrix'. That might help!