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clearmind

(not) a different midi instrument

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Hello everybody, sorry for opening a new topic about this. Maybe i should be PMing TK but i thought that everybody may give me an idea about this. My previous topic was about the old old firmwares

I wanted old firmwares because i wanted to build a small live instrument dedicated for only one thing at a time.

Having lots of faders knobs and buttons -ok- looks cool but sometimes you need -and use- only few of them at a time.

So why carry all the others, and also remembering what was what on stage may sometimes be really hard

you may be saying, "if you are that stupid, don't bother building a midi device for yourself go and buy one"

but i don't feel that way, and i believe that having a customized controller may take ones creativity to very very different levels.

i like using ableton live as a really complicated sampler with an effects unit and at a song i use approximately 8 - 10 different triggered loops (both vertical and hortizonal way)

so i thought that building a midibox plus would do fine for me ( if i pre assign the different layers of buttons for different clips-loops everything else). It would be like "a layer for a song".  But there comes the problem

I want to use some knobs as well and some of them should do the same job for the entire set (like master volume send effects parameters and things like that)

First of all i would like to ask you all;

Would this be possible?

I guess one of the main problems -as stated above- would be the layer problems with the faders.

Only hex files are left on the site so i cannot see the source (even if i saw, i am sure i wouldn't be able to change it to a new -working- version:) ).

The real question is this i guess

is it possible to have a device which has 8 layered buttons and 8 (or 16) non-layered faders ?

in my opinion midibox plus can do the job with a firmware change. I didn't want to disturb TK because i read that he was a really busy man.

So can you give me your opinions about this live performance tool concept at least ?? (also if you have the source code for the midibox plus, it would be great too:)) )

thanks -at least for reading

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Hi,

The easy answer to your question is yes.

If you use MIOS (which implies an 18F PIC) rather than old 16F firmware. Your idea of layering some controls and having other static controls can be provided by using banksticks to store the MIDI mapping of your MB.

Use the MB64e and customise it to you needs. It is the big brother of the MB Plus

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Just because you use the newer, modern, more modular firmware and hardware platform does not mean you need to make a box with a zillion knobs.  But the newer designs are more mature, and you end up with useful "building blocks" if you need something different in the future.  To me it doesn't really appear significantly cheaper or simpler to go with the older design.

You can make a MBHP knob box with only one knob if you like.

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thank you very much for your answers,  i will now read more about MB64e and how to customize it, because i could not understand exactly the bankstick thing, i suppose you did not mean to plug a different bankstick for a song or something ?

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today i got the pcbs for midibox plus (which i ordered from a local pcb maker)

this means i have to build a midibox plus

can anybody help with the source code??

TK ??

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Sorry clearmind, you might have rushed into things!

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like stryd says; you went too fast :-\

i really don't think a lot of people are interested in putting a lot of work into this because it is an old project (but i could of course be wrong); i think for everything that mbplus does, mb64 does it better and has more options/mre flexible

how much did the pcb's cost?

ecause i could not understand exactly the bankstick thing, i suppose you did not mean to plug a different bankstick for a song or something ?

kinda; without a bankstick a midibox has only one setup; with bankstick you get more banks/patches etc.

good luck

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hi again,

pcb was like 4$ but i only need 1 setup don't need bank sticks

i only need changing button parameters but fixed fader parameters

the layers will do fine for me if i can be able to do what i want

because 16 layers mean 16 * 8 buttons (which will be enough for  a live set)

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I think you should really look into a MIDI box 64E

At the tutorial page on uCaps, there's a small box with 16 encoders & led rings. Only 8 buttons & a LCD finish are doing the trick.

With those 16 encoders, you can control up to 128 virtual encoders.

Not too expensive, and a cool way of using the minimum of hardware to controle a maximum of software.

My advise, as I am trying to say, build a simple thing, but make sure it can control more than u need. Some day, u are going to change ur mind, and think, o uhm, I want to do it this way today. And well, with ur original plan, that wouldn't be possible, and u'll end up frustrated and build another midi-box.

But, if u create something cool, and something that's effective (less knobs, more options), u will be able to do whatever the heck u want with ur box, with some simple changes!

The possibilities with the 64E are almost endless, so don't hold yourself down, but build something that will be re-usable in the future.. 8) Is going to cost you some time now, but will save a lot in the future.

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i guess i am really stupid because i can not understand how midibox 64 e will help me

it has rotary encoders

and buttons only

doesn't it ?

so how can i assign one rotary encoder for example to be the master volume ? even if i did, isn't rotary encoder a potentiometer which can complete more than on circles when you turn? so without ledrings how will i control one effectively ?

I believe that understanding the MIDIBOX project should mean understanding everything about midibox and i want to build them all. Believe me after i build this one, my mind will start thinking about building the other ones but right now i can only think about building this one.

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isn't rotary encoder a potentiometer

no, a rotary encoder is (as the name applies) a digital encoder (= "step-button") and no potentiometer. it sends out a signal on each step. the number of steps depend on the manufacturer of the encoder.

the led-rings are very useful to indicate the current setting of the encoder. with faders, you'd need very expensive motorfaders to achieve the same result.

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so does this mean a rotary encoder has values from 0 - 128 (for example) so you can turn it like a knob  and it sends digital values ?

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so does this mean a rotary encoder has values from 0 - 128 (for example) so you can turn it like a knob  and it sends digital values ?

nice piece stryd

that is true (0-127 that is) but don't forget that a pot is no better in this case (when controlling/making a digital signal like midi, when donig analog stuff it's different), it also sends steps/values from 0 to 127.

the advantage of an encoder is when you switch (like having layers), it is always "in the right position" and a pot isn't.

so without ledrings how will i control one effectively ?

if you have a lcd, and your mb64(E) is running in display menu; you can see the values of all the encoders (as black bars)

cheers, marcel

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hello again

last night i had a chance to try one of my friends axiom

it's awesome and i understood the  concept of the rotary encoders by trial :)

i don't know why but i thought that rotary encoders wouldn't let me control effectively but i learned that it wasnot true

so ok now i am thinkinng of building a midibox64e

:)

today i will go to some electric parts suppliers and ask about rotary encoders

hope i can find

thank you very much about all your help

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allright

last night and today i finished soldering the pcb

at weekend i made the panel

(both are really shitty, just to test if my plan will work)

also i bought rotary encoders today. I had real difficulty trying to explain people what it was, because i didnt know the name for it in Turkish. (still don't, found a place with a Bourns sign and tried to explain the situation and the man showed me two kinds ( both without switches)) i bought 16 of them -not that i am going to use sixteen, i was so excited to find, with a strange feeling i bought as much as i could afford. :)

but first i am going to finsih this midibox plus

tomorrow i will try to figure out what is wrong with the midibox because one led doesnt work, one led works sometimes and i am not expecting the led associated to midi-in port. the real problem is i get strange midi messages sometimes, some of the pots don't work and some of the buttons don't work either, and still  couldnt solve the layer thing. But thanks to TK, he sent me the source code. As i will be trying to solve the Hardware problems of my midibox-plus, i will try to copy and paste all the layers actions so that except for the buttons, all the faders will do the same job.

p.s. i didnt solder the lcd because i was sooooooooooooooooooo tired of soldering so i guess i will be saving it for my midibox64e,

ROTARY ENCODERS ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO COOOOOLL

and i am starting to think that building midiboxes should be considered as a mental disease. Once you start, you can never stop thinking about what you can do to your mdibox or what can you build or how can you build

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Yeh, I knew my MIDIBox addiction had gone too far when I was waiting for the bus the other day, and I caught myself looking at the light/power pole across the street, wondering if there were any parts on them that I could use for casing or something  ;D  True story!  :-\

As for those bugs, I'd check my soldering if I were you....

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heheheheheeheheheh

that's exactly what i am talking about!! :)

yesterday in my dream i was looking for a way to use the rotary encoders that i bought. I still don't know how i am going to mount them on the panel it won't be easy like pot. thats for sure,

anyhow,

today i decided to build a new box and if i like it i will post some pictures

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i totally finished my midibox plus

it has 2 knobs and 8 buttons and switches for layers.

now i am plannng to build a midibox 64 e

but i wanna rest for at least a month

hehehe

tired of seeing midiboxes in my dreams

www.futursuz.net/midibox

for pictures

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Congratulations on your MidiBox Plus - I remember those toggle switches from my first midibox years ago! As far as mounting the encoders, check out TK's pictures of the Midibox SID construction. Usually they are soldered on a PCB and then the board is mounted to the front panel with spacers, or to the frame of the case and then the front panel slides over the encoders.

Justin

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hey clearmind!

I love your tunes :)

unfortunately I can't read any turkish...

you got a band or do it all by yourself?

great music!

...and Congratulations of your first mb, that's a nice idea with the tape-recorder (I like it when one can see through the case) ;)

Michael

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That thing is so ghetto .... It sure has character :)

Those buttons remind me of streetfighter... Am I close?  ;D

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Justin;

"Usually they are soldered on a PCB and then the board is mounted to the front panel with spacers, or to the frame of the case and then the front panel slides over the encoders."

Yeah i did it on this box also, the pots were mounted on the panel with a pcb-like thing (drilled)  , Midibox Plus thought me lots of things, first of all the importance of good-soldering :)

Michael;

thaaaaankss :) i do the music myself but playing live one of my oldest friends accompanies me with his laptop, and we found out how exciting this is ( i used  to play drums and he used to play keyboards in the band that we played, and we played for like 9 years) , so now it is time to build a tool for performance, i hope this box won't let me down

stryd_one;

yeah they are street-fighter buttons, i thought that they were the most suitable buttons for live performance, since they are big and don't easily get broken when you get so excited and hit it really hard, just like street fighter

:)

ooh by the way,

i figured out a way to change the main.asm so the buttons on all the layers are different, and the two knobs are the same,  so when you change a layer ( in my case song) only the buttons change

if anybody needs it, i can send

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ooh by the way,

i figured out a way to change the main.asm so the buttons on all the layers are different, and the two knobs are the same,  so when you change a layer ( in my case song) only the buttons change

if anybody needs it, i can send

Could you put the code on the wiki? :)

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