c0nsumer Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Hey everyone... When I arrived home from work today my two Crystalfontz CFAP2002A-Y-ECS PLED / OLED Modules were waiting for me. Well, after dinner I added a header to one and tried it out with one of the test MIDIbox SID-NUXX PCBs. I must say, I'm really, really happy. Since there's no room taken up by a backlight the display is really thin (metal box is 4.9mm), and (also because of the lack of a backlight) it requires considerably less power. This means less draw on the linear regs and less heat dissapated. This is good.As you can see above, the contrast is also excellent. The display is a greenish yellow, definitely not an unplesant color. I'm hoping to theme my enclosure in black and yellow (with some white indicators) in order to match this.The displays are also sized (PCB and pin location) to match Crystalfontz's other 116mm x 37mm 20x2 displays. So, you could use one of these as a drop-in replacement for whatever your current display is, or in place of another similarly sized one.Also, there is another photo of the display hooked up and running (also showing the breadboarded rotary encoder, and probe-for-a-switch) here: http://www.nuxx.net/gallery/v/stuffivemade/midibox_sid_nuxx/in_progress/IMG_4532.JPG.htmlSome things to note:When connected to a standard MBHP_CORE, the 'Contrast' adjustment becomes brightness / luminance, and 'Luminance' isn't used.The specifications listed on the CFAP2002A-Y-ECS page itself, on the dimensions page, and on the printable template are wrong. Refer to the actual data sheet for the proper dimensions.I had no problems using the same cable for either an LCD or the OLED. Not all the pins are used with the OLED (A and K), but they are left unconnected on the OLED side, so there's no harm in making a cable with them.My understanding is that the life of OLEDs is less than that of LCDs. I can't say how much shorter, though. In my opinion, the better display of the OLED is probably worth the possibility of maybe having to replace the display a few years down the line.The photos above showing the display are as they were out of the camera, taken under some compact fluorescent studio lights, with a polarizing filter set parallel to the filter on the OLED. In other words, yes, that's how good it looks in person.The slightly blur in the photos is due the protective plastic which is still over the display. The pixels themselves may have been slightly overexposed as well, causing a bit of blooming.Anyway, that's about it... I just ordered three more of the displays so that the rest of my MIDIbox SID-NUXXs may be fitted with them. That's coming along nicely as well... But that's a topic for another post.-Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Told you, PLED's are the shiznit. We can all thank Wilba for making that spot :)FYI guys you can get these from onestopdisplays as well, and if you're in Australia and want one, I'm about to buy quite a few from a local distributor, so you could join me and we might make a price break point...Oh I'm getting a few 4x20's as well...Anyway, I am assuming that they're the same, as all my research shows me that there's only one factory putting out PLED character displays...Just a damn shame they don't make a 2x40!!So now you all know why I was talking about a 2x2x20 LCD driver to replace the 2x40 screens..... Imagine four of these on an MBSEQ...... Tasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLP Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 wow! looks great.how is the response time ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 'bout the same as an LCD :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0nsumer Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 wow! looks great.how is the response time ?Thanks, I agree. I can't wait to see them in the enclosures...Anectdotally I think that the display is quite a bit faster than the LCD (a Crystalfontz CFAH2002A-RMI-JP), as I can see the blanking of the display when it is redrawn after switching banks. It's not especially noticable (nor bothersome), but it's there.When I get some time this evening I'll look at the LCD benchmark app and get some imperical numbers for you which you could compare yours to.Also, the specs for the respective displays list the response times:CFAP2002A-Y-ECS (OLED):T rise: 10?sT fall: 10?sCFAH2002A-RMI-JP (LCD):T rise: 150ms / 200ms (typical / maximum)T fall: 150ms / 200ms (typical / maximum)Hope that helps...-SteveUPDATE: After taking a look at it, I think that the LCD benchmark app checks the response of the display (LCD) driver and the logic on the display board, not the display itself. So while I'll still run this, I think the numbers above should give you the response time answer you are looking for. So, sorry stryd_one, I have to disagree. I am of the opinion that the OLED is a lot faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Not bad :D I had a feeling they were a little quicker but not that much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0nsumer Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Not bad :D I had a feeling they were a little quicker but not that much...Sorry, edited the previous post a bit too... Yeah, they are really nice. I'm slightly concerned about the life of them, but as Crystalfontz likes to maintain standard display sizes, I think that it is pretty likely that some manner of drop-in replacement will be available for a while now. The enclosure design I'm working up will accept anything from the 4.9mm thick (metal box part) OLED to a 9.5mm (or whatever, also metal box part) LCD, provided the drill holes and display itself are in the same location. So it shouldn't be a concern if it needs replacing at some point.-Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I think that the LCD benchmark app checks the response of the display (LCD) driver and the logic on the display boardThat's right, and also and the PIC itself, setting the pins etc...The hp MSA SAN's have these displays, and so far, the ones in our DC have been on for over 2 years, 24x7, and no sign of problems... I'd say most midiboxes will be quite some years old before we see a screen failure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0nsumer Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 That's right, and also and the PIC itself, setting the pins etc...The hp MSA SAN's have these displays, and so far, the ones in our DC have been on for over 2 years, 24x7, and no sign of problems... I'd say most midiboxes will be quite some years old before we see a screen failure...They have two year old OLEDs? I didn't think they had been manufactured for that long... Are you sure they just a higher contrast LCD? The only articles I can regarding HP actually using / doing anything with OLEDs are some from June or July of this year, and is regarding research HP is doing into them. Not using them in parts.-Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbrown Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Just a damn shame they don't make a 2x40!!Dude, Do you know why is that the case? just curious...So now you all know why I was talking about a 2x2x20 LCD driver to replace the 2x40 screens..... Imagine four of these on an MBSEQ...... Tasty.I read your post about this few weeks ago, but did TK specify if this is going to be a problem with SEQv3? Cuz, I would like that screen layout myself too, if its possible. ;)l8r.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0nsumer Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Just FYI, using LCD Benchmark with the gave these approximate results:CFAP2002A-Y-ECS (OLED):1868 * 8 * 100nS ~= 1.49mSCFAH2002A-RMI-JP (LCD):3231 * 8 * 100nS ~= 2.58mSThe first number bounced around 10 or 20, so I picked one of the displayed numbers which appeared to be about in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Thanks dude!Regarding the 2x2x20 LCD's as a replacement for a 2x40, TK has confirmed that using a custom LCD driver will be compatible with existing apps. Of course two additional select lines will be required, but that would not be a problem in most apps.About the PLEDs in the HP MSA's, I thought the same thing, but it's like 150 degrees viewable (probably more but the bezel around it gets in the way) and not a hint of backlighting, so I'm pretty sure. The datasheet I got from OSD for the 2nd release model was timestamped 5/04/2004. PLED and OLEDs have been around for a few years now, but it was only recently that the prices dropped to a point where they were worth considering unless you really needed one. I guess HP decided that the most badass SAN of it's time wasn't complete without one ;) Interestingly I did note that the previous models had a very similar screen, almost identical colour, and very high contrast.... But you could see the backlighting and the grid of the characters if you got to a steep viewing angle, so they'd be LCD's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Sorry - regarding the seq v3, I've looked at this screenshot and realised that it might cut some menu items in half :( I'll wait until I see the final release, but I'll almost certainly use the 2x2x20 solution anyway, diced up menus don't bother me that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pay_c Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Hey, wait a moment...CFAP2002A-Y-ECS (OLED):T rise: 10?sT fall: 10?sCFAH2002A-RMI-JP (LCD):T rise: 150ms / 200ms (typical / maximum)T fall: 150ms / 200ms (typical / maximum)and...CFAP2002A-Y-ECS (OLED):1868 * 8 * 100nS ~= 1.49mSCFAH2002A-RMI-JP (LCD):3231 * 8 * 100nS ~= 2.58mSDoesn´t that bring the possibility up that with OLEDs greyscale stuff is possible? On LCDs greyscale just looks like sh*t, cause the response time eats up the typical half duty time of the "greyscaled" characters and so there are no real greyscale fonts but just some wobbling somethings. But in OLEDs?!? THAT would be coool! Much more possibilities then! E.g. highlighting menus and similar. ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0nsumer Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Thanks dude!Sure thing. :)About the PLEDs in the HP MSA's, I thought the same thing, but it's like 150 degrees viewable (probably more but the bezel around it gets in the way) and not a hint of backlighting, so I'm pretty sure. The datasheet I got from OSD for the 2nd release model was timestamped 5/04/2004. PLED and OLEDs have been around for a few years now, but it was only recently that the prices dropped to a point where they were worth considering unless you really needed one. I guess HP decided that the most badass SAN of it's time wasn't complete without one ;) Interestingly I did note that the previous models had a very similar screen, almost identical colour, and very high contrast.... But you could see the backlighting and the grid of the characters if you got to a steep viewing angle, so they'd be LCD's...Do you happen to have the model / part numbers? I might see if I can dig up a spares number for the display itself... I'll see if I can get a hold of specs for it from our HP rep.Sorry - regarding the seq v3, I've looked at this screenshot and realised that it might cut some menu items in half :( I'll wait until I see the final release, but I'll almost certainly use the 2x2x20 solution anyway, diced up menus don't bother me that much.Huh, yeah... Makes sense. I'm (hopefully) going to be building a Sequentix P3 soon, so I'm not sure I'll have a need for a MIDIbox SEQ, otherwise I'd probably build one. (Well, maybe I will anyways... After the 808 clone is done, too...)-Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbrown Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Sorry - regarding the seq v3, I've looked at this screenshot and realised that it might cut some menu items in half :( I'll wait until I see the final release, but I'll almost certainly use the 2x2x20 solution anyway, diced up menus don't bother me that much.Man, that's a bummer:( My gripe about the 2x40's are, they're usually cheap looking and very hard to find. Plus no PLED version >:( >:(.Oh well ::). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbrown Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Huh, yeah... Makes sense. I'm (hopefully) going to be building a Sequentix P3 soon, so I'm not sure I'll have a need for a MIDIbox SEQ. And also, I'm done with PCB and enclosure design and such for now. My project has been enough work, not to mention the actual assembly.-SteveAt first, that's the sequencer project I was planning to build. Then I saw midibox.org and this forum, that's why I build the MBSEQv2.Just wondering, why did you pick the sequentix over mbseq?thanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Do you happen to have the model / part numbers? I might see if I can dig up a spares number for the display itself... I'll see if I can get a hold of specs for it from our HP rep.Already done ;) Unfortunately the display comes as part of a larger and somewhat pricey subassembly :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0nsumer Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 At first, that's the sequencer project I was planning to build. Then I saw midibox.org and this forum, that's why I build the MBSEQv2.Just wondering, why did you pick the sequentix over mbseq?I'm not sure, honestly. I had a chance to get a board set, so I did. There's something I like more about the P3 design, mostly the elegance of the hardware. I've also heard very good things about it as well.So, I really can't compare one to the other until I have each in front of me and use both for a while.I'm not sure I'll get a chance any time soon, either. Along with the P3 I still have a 9090 to build, and beyond acquiring the PCBs I haven't even begun to acquire parts for this one. The enclosure for this one won't be fun at all, either...-Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0nsumer Posted August 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Already done ;) Unfortunately the display comes as part of a larger and somewhat pricey subassembly :(Mind sharing the part numbers?-Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBunsen Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 My gripe about the 2x40's are, they're usually cheap looking and very hard to find. Plus no PLED version >:( >:(.I've seen some 2x40 VFDs around. They look the filth.stryd_one, tell me more about this OLED order?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 I'll be ordering 8 2x20's which I was quoted about AUD$30 each.. If I could get another two I might make a price break, so it might be less... If you take crystalfontz as an example, they're USD30 each, or USD20 each for 10 or more... So if I can find two others who need one, we might get a 2x20 PLED for AUD$20 :)In fact now that I think of it, if I do get a price break like that, it'd actually cost less for 10 than for 8, so I'm gonna go place a quote for 10 now...Anyone want in?Edit: Oh yeh, Tk advised against VFD's for time sensitive stuff because they're slow and could impact performance .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluke Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 How much are the 4x20 displays and do you take NZ money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docbrown Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 I'm not sure, honestly. I had a chance to get a board set, so I did. There's something I like more about the P3 design, mostly the elegance of the hardware. I've also heard very good things about it as well.So, I really can't compare one to the other until I have each in front of me and use both for a while.I'm not sure I'll get a chance any time soon, either. Along with the P3 I still have a 9090 to build, and beyond acquiring the PCBs I haven't even begun to acquire parts for this one. The enclosure for this one won't be fun at all, either...-SteveI see... Now you made me think of ordering the P3 as well :-\. I also like the simplistic design of it. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 How much are the 4x20 displays and do you take NZ money?4x20's are around $40 Aussie dollars. Only $AU (I'm not a store or anything just a dude going shopping), but I'll take it via paypal, so the conversion to AUD is free... I've placed my order so let me know ASAP :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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