can i cut PCB with jigsaw

[carsten_the_dane]

Hi

Just a small question here:

I have bought some plates of PCBs, but since they are bigger than any of the PCBs needed for the sid project, i just want to make sure i can cut the plates with a jigsaw without ripping of the cobber?

Thanks

Carsten

[Wild_Weasel]

Yes, this works.

If you use an saw which cuts when pulling it towards you, just make sure the copper side is not facing in your direction.

Doing this  you will prodice nearly no burr, or just a small one which can be sanded down.

Best regards.

Michael

Addendum:

Just noticed that jigsaw means something different than I thought. That's the one with very fine blade used to make you mother's day present from thin wood.

Better use a hacksaw, normally used for cutting steel.

[carsten_the_dane]

Allright. A hacksaw it is. Thanks

[c0nsumer]

Allright. A hacksaw it is. Thanks

A hacksaw blade can be rather corse for doing this. I personally would recommend either using a scroll saw (hand held or tabletop) with a metal-cutting blade (very fine teeth) or a bandsaw. I personally use a bandsaw with a 28tpi blade and it works pretty well, with the biggest problem being the width of the kerf. On smaller boards it can easily account for 5% of the width of the board.

If using something powered, it'll help to sandwhich the board between pieces of hardboard, as this will help keep the copper from burring. And of course, file all the edges smooth when you are done.

Soon I'll have to cut out the center of five PCBs (these), and I plan on using a Dremel mounted in a drill press (as seen in the background here) fitted with a small, round cutter (actually, an old dental bit) to mill out the center of the board. This works really, really well. Nice, smooth cuts and minimal filing.

-Steve

[carsten_the_dane]

hmm. whats the difference between a jigsaw and a handheld scroll saw?

Could you link to an image of a handheld scroll saw - translating names of tools is not my strong point  :-\

[Therezin]

AFAIK there's no real difference, at least not with what we call a jigsaw or a scroll saw round here. The main thing seems to be that scrollers come with narrower blades so you can cut tighter curves - but you can put the same kind of blade in a jigsaw so there's no real difference. Just make sure you use a blade with many small teeth, not the wood-cutting blade that comes with most jigsaws. A hacksaw would probably be better, but you could probably get away with a jigsaw by placing the PCB like a sandwich between some blocks of wood, like c0nsumer mentioned.

[audiocommander]

...and just to maximize the confusion:

I'm also using a Dremel with a "Trennscheibe". It's easy, you have a lot of other tools included (drilling machine, polishing, engraving...).

there are some no-name devices that are a lot cheaper than the original...

I got one with a flexible bending neck(?); think you surely have some use for it after you finished your MB :)

(if 30$ don't hurt you)

Cheers,

Michael

ps: if it must not be perfect, you can also make a half-cut with a cutter and then break it (but please try before, this method is sometimes failing ;D)

[docbrown]

Soon I'll have to cut out the center of five PCBs (these), and I plan on using a Dremel mounted in a drill press (as seen in the background here) fitted with a small, round cutter (actually, an old dental bit) to mill out the center of the board. This works really, really well. Nice, smooth cuts and minimal filing.

-Steve

Yo! Steve,

Where did you get the drill press for dremell? That is sweet look'n :o I did not know that it exist.

thanks..

[c0nsumer]

Where did you get the drill press for dremell? That is sweet look'n :o I did not know that it exist.

Amazon. Cost $35 - $50 if I remember right. It's for a much older style of Dremel, though.

One for newer Dremels is about the same price, but I'm not sure where to find it. Probably Amazon, too.

-Steve

[tel3]

Where did you get the drill press for dremell? That is sweet look'n  I did not know that it exist.

Hey docbrown, if you are interested in a drill press for a dremel you should check out this place: http://vanda-layindustries.com/ I picked up their "Drill Press Plus" and I am very happy with it. It is very beefy, and much more stable than any of the dremel made drill presses, making it much more capable of very precise work like PCB drilling and such. It's made from billet aluminum and will probably last forever!

They also make a nice little milling machine type attachment for dremels that can be used for many different projects.

Check 'em out before looking at the dremel stuff. They cost about twice as much than the Dremel brand but IMHO, well worth the added cost.

-tel3

[DavidBanner]

I've noticed the commercial PCB drilling machines have ultra high speed drills, how important is that?

Can I get away with a nice cheap 7,000 rpm drill press for doing my PCBs?

[Jidis]

People in the Yahoo homebrew PCB group swore that nothing under 20k rpm was any good. ???

I use a small Delta press here for lots of stuff, and have occasionally bumped the speed way way down, just for the nice, pleasant sound it makes for lengthy drilling sessions. Seemed to do fine, even with my carbide .033" PCB bits, but I hear they're supposed to be run extra fast (YMMV).

George

-And thanks tel3 for that link! That's some weird looking stuff they make. ;)

- also, FWIW, I think the people in that PCB group used to knock the newer model Dremel presses (quality or accuracy issues), but some of those guys insisted that anything that couldn't work within a .00000000001" tolerance was a piece of crap. An older model may not be a bad deal, even if it may be lacking some bells and whistles, but there could be different ones. I haven't been keeping up with that group lately.

[c0nsumer]

Using a slower speed with high-speed bits, they don't cut properly. Because of this, I run a dremel at max, whether it is milling PCBs with dental bits or drilling them with resharpened carbide PCB drills. I also question the amount of runout (wobble) that many drill presses have. The Dremel has a lot less, so holes are more accurate and bits are far less likely to break.

Also, be sure to wear safety glasses and a respirator when working. The dust from drilling / milling PCBs is pretty harsh.

-Steve

[tel3]

-And thanks tel3 for that link! That's some weird looking stuff they make.

No Prob! ;)

I also question the amount of runout (wobble) that many drill presses have. The Dremel has a lot less, so holes are more accurate and bits are far less likely to break.

That's the main reason I recommended the "Drill Press Plus" from the above link. That thing is rock solid stable and has no noticeable slop/wobble that I can tell...NONE!

-tel3

[c0nsumer]

That's the main reason I recommended the "Drill Press Plus" from the above link. That thing is rock solid stable and has no noticeable slop/wobble that I can tell...NONE!

Runout is generally dependent on the bearings and such in the motor / chuck itself. As the tool you linked to requires a dremel, one should get the same amount of runout with a dremel drill press or the tool you linked to. I looked at what you linked to and it looks nice, it's just a bit pricy. That said, I wouldn't mind their X/Y mill... It'd be better if it also had a Z axis, though.

-Steve

[tel3]

Runout is generally dependent on the bearings and such in the motor / chuck itself. As the tool you linked to requires a dremel, one should get the same amount of runout with a dremel drill press or the tool you linked to.

Oh, I get it! I was mainly more comparing the slop of the Dremel drill press with the one I linked to.

It'd be better if it also had a Z axis, though

I may be wrong but, I believe they offer the Z axis as an add-on?

-tel3

[c0nsumer]

Oh, I get it! I was mainly more comparing the slop of the Dremel drill press with the one I linked to.

Ah, yeah. I've found it to be plenty good, though... The only time I've broken bits is when I screwed up and moved the board while still retracting the bit.

I may be wrong but, I believe they offer the Z axis as an add-on?

I'm not sure... That I didn't see. I may just buy a Harbor Freight milling vise instead. It won't be perfect, but it should still be good enough for milling out centers of boards. The most recent one (for my MIDIbox front panel) was done by hand and it came out well. I'll post photos of it once I'm home in a few days.

-Steve

[tel3]

c0nsumer, did you look at their mill accessories page? I think maybe it's in there...I haven't looked at their page in a while though.

-tel3

[c0nsumer]

c0nsumer, did you look at their mill accessories page? I think maybe it's in there...I haven't looked at their page in a while though.

Yes, they have accessories for what they call the Z axis, but it's really just the vertical pieces. There's no screw there for purposes of moving the tool while cutting, nor moving the piece being worked on. Ideally they'd have a third knob on the base which uses a scissor-type jack to raise and lower the piece being milled, and the X and Y could then move it in it's respective directions as well. But... They don't.

-Steve

[tel3]

Right on, I getcha...

Yeah, I'm a total newb when it comes to milling anything!  I really wasn't even sure what Z axis meant, but now I get it...  ;)

-tel3

[docbrown]

Thanks for the info guys... With this single post I have learned so much already..

I haven't made my PCB since the late 80's, and now, I'm starting again,, after 17 yrs of electronics and PCB hiatus!! and boy tools have changed quiet a bit!!

Back then I use a Radio Shack PCB transfer sheets to make PCB traces that you rub on to the copper side.

Since Dremmel was very expensive back then, I got instead the knock off version of it by IsoTip, the MINIDRILL 6636.

I guess its time for me to upgrade my gears :-\.. thanks again to the tips and links.

[DavidBanner]

hi c0nsumer,

thanks for the tips, esp on safety - I'll be ordering a dremmel, a stand and a respirator in the next few days...

[smashtv]

Wow deja-vu!  ;)

Sorry to come into this one late, trying to catch up on forum reading too

Back in 2003 we had a thread going about this stuff:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=748.0

Those router bits I mention are still my favorite for proto work, and at the risk of repeating myself check this image:

[img width=460 height=420]http://www.avishowtech.com/temp/P1010121b.jpg

The board clamped in as bare uncut copper, and the tool shown made all the holes and cuts.

This board was drilled and edge routed in less than 5 minutes, I'm wanting to say the tool speed was around 25,000 rpm.  This shows how much sideways load these bits will take, I guess I'm trying to say it would be perfect for your adventures in pocket milling.  :)  The pattern is quite similar to some dental burr bits.

Steve I'm sure you have figured out you can turn the depth gauge on that dremel press slightly to make up for some positional accuracy slop, and uncoil the lift spring a turn or more to get a better balance (that you don't have to fight) on the z-axis......If not those two tweeks will make life way more fun on that press.  ;)

Also as much as I love the add on no-key dremel chuck, it almost doubles the amount of runout error compared to using the collet setup that comes stock on the dremel.

An HF cross-slide vise will be the most accurate low cost way to do clean pocket mills with the dremel press, but you might want to pick up an extra length of pipe with the same diameter as the dremel press "main column", as the stock column/pipe is too short to get the tool above some of the cross-slide vises.  :)

A pair of magnetic soft jaws for the slide vise (also at HF) will make holding the board without bowing it from the required tension a non-issue.

Not picking on ya or your methods, just trying to pass along what I found when walking the path you are on now, hopefully saving you some time or frustration......  ;)

best

Smash

[c0nsumer]

Smash,

Yep, great points... Most of my board cutout is actually done on a bandsaw then cleaned up with a file, as it is a great deal easier and less messy than milling. I only tried milling the boards when I needed to do inside cutouts on the front panel PCBs. Photos of this will come later once I'm rested (all-night flight) and have the metal panel in my hands so I can fit everything.

I keep thinking about getting one of those sliding vises, but I just haven't needed it yet. For the inside stuff I've just been routing between pilot holes, then filing the remains by hand. Works great and less slop.

As far as the Dremel chucks, yeah... The finger chuck is a lot more sloppy. I really should get a new collet set. I received my Dremel for Christmas when I was 10 or 12, and the collet is long lost. I had to purchase a new finger chuck because that had rusted. Unfortunately those dental bits are smaller than any available collet, so I have to use a finger chuck. :\

-Steve

[c0nsumer]

For what it's worth, that's the result of the Dremel drill press, repurposed dental bit, and hand files (small/fine bastard and small box). Those will be the front panels for the MIDIbox SID-NUXX holding LEDs, tactile switches, rotary encoder, display (LCD or PLED/OLED), and front panel all as one assembly.

High res images available here: Front - Rear

I'll post more info later in the MIDIbox SID-NUXX thread after I've finished assembly of the first one.

-Steve