Midibox & C=64

[scube]

I'm a newbie  :-[ and I post a simple question: can I use Midibox to control Commodore 64 audio softwares? Does it exist a way to connect the Midibox via cartridge o din? I'm searching a midi control unit for my Commodore but it's really hard. I found old pieces only (Moog, Siel..)  :'(

Thanks,

Scube

[OrganGrinder]

welcome abord scube

I post a simple question: can I use Midibox to control Commodore 64 audio softwares?

the problem with your question is that it is not clear what you are asking.  i have come with two interpretations:

• 1 you are wanting to run c64 audio software on a midibox device; or
  
• 2 you are wanting to build a midi device using midibox for a c64
  

the answer to version 1 is probably not, what is being asked is to emulate a different computer architecture and would be far too much work for most hobbiests, not to mention most pics probably dosn't have the memory to do anything useful if it was possible.

now i assume you were meaning version 2 and would like to interface a midibox with a c64.  i would say that it is possible but you need to ask someone who has more understanding of the c64 than i do, there are plenty of them on this forum.

OrganGrinder

ps sorry about my picking, but i find that if the question is clear and not subject to interpretation, everyone benefits.

[scube]

• 2 you are wanting to build a midi device using midibox for a c64

Thank you man, in the meantime I oriented my searches to MIDI-to-RS232 adapters/converters. I found some schematics but there is an interesting link..I hope that with this new info I can be more clear. Please take a look

http://www.edrum.info/files/edrum16_v1_5.gif

Edrum is a diy project, they use the PIC16F877 controller and it's connected to MIDI and MAX232/RS232 Out. Commodore 64 has a RS232 port IN... Now, I'm not a genius so it's possible that I'm mistaking but what happens if I include MAX232/RS232 in my next Midibox project? Ex.

PIC16F877 --- (25) RC6/TX/CH ---> T1IN

PIC16F877 --- (26) RC7/RX/DT ---> R1OUT

In this way can I send MIDI messages from Midibox to C64 using RS232 port? Hope it's clear

Thanks,

Scube

[jimhenry]

I could be completely off-base but I see the MIDIbox as an interface between MIDI signaling and "real world" things like switches and pots. You need a PC to MIDI interface to connect the MIDIbox to a PC. I think you are looking for a C64 to MIDI interface and I don't think a MIDIbox is going to be much help.

It's been ages since I did C64 hacking but I think you might be able to do a MIDI interface by "bit banging" input and output pins directly from the C64.  If I remember correctly, C64 RS-232 was done without a UART.  You might just need to add the current loop interface which can be copied from the MIDIbox or a bunch of other places.

[scube]

If I remember correctly, C64 RS-232 was done without a UART.  You might just need to add the current loop interface which can be copied from the MIDIbox or a bunch of other places.

Here is a schematic for C64 RS-232

http://girasoli.org/?attachment_id=153

Sorry but I'm not expert...can you confirm your theory with regard to UART?

Scube

[OrganGrinder]

you can also use the RS232 with the midibox ltc module.  it may need some custom wiring/coding for use with the c64, maybe someone has already done it with midibox.

OrganGrinder

[scube]

you can also use the RS232 with the midibox ltc module.  it may need some custom wiring/coding for use with the c64, maybe someone has already done it with midibox.

OrganGrinder

I'm really happy to hear this! I found this link from Ucapps (it's strange, google did not recognize it)  ::)

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_to_com.html

The chapter "Driver Requirements" indicates some PC/MAC drivers. Do I have to find the same kind of drivers for my C64? What do you intend with "it may need some custom wiring/coding for use with the c64"?

Thanks,

Scube

[jimhenry]

Here is a schematic for C64 RS-232

http://girasoli.org/?attachment_id=153

Sorry but I'm not expert...can you confirm your theory with regard to UART?

Scube

I don't know what the Maxim chip is but maybe it's a UART or maybe it is just an integrated RS-232 interface, which is more likely. Either way, what you are asking is going to require some non-trivial C64 programming. Was there some C64 code to go with that schematic? This is going to be a long way from a plug-and-play project. If you can't decipher that schematic I'd think twice and three times about getting into this. You'll be getting a lot of education if you manage to make this work. And I don't think there are many people left who can offer much help.

[scube]

If you can't decipher that schematic I'd think twice and three times about getting into this. You'll be getting a lot of education if you manage to make this work. And I don't think there are many people left who can offer much help.

I don't understand.. Did you build your Midibox without helps? Are you able to decipher all the schematics of Ucapps website? If yes, please take a look at this and help me to understand how I can implement it to transmit MIDI to Commodore 64 serial port.

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_to_com.html

If you are not able, please do not demoralize me and leave this tread to informed people ;)

Best,

Scube

[Tanstaafl]

the Maxim chip in the schematic is a line level converter.  It takes the TTL signals from the user port and converts them into  + / - 12V voltages needed to talk to the RS-232 (NON) standard.  here is a link to the datasheet:

http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/1798

With a midibox, midi-2-com, and the gizmo from the schematic, you will have the hardware to do what you want.  BUT....

You would need to write a program on the C64 to read the data coming in from the user port, and turn it into useful information that the SID could use.  I don't think it would be possible to get any kind of REALTIME use out of that sort of setup.

If your C64 is not used for anything productive (gathering dust on a shelf), dissect it for the SID chip and build a midibox SID.  So much easier than reverse engineering/coding.

Just about anybody can build the SID module, if your going to build (or have built) a midibox CORE then you have the skill to SIDify.

Good Luck,

gb

[scube]

With a midibox, midi-2-com, and the gizmo from the schematic, you will have the hardware to do what you want.  BUT....

You would need to write a program on the C64 to read the data coming in from the user port, and turn it into useful information that the SID could use.  I don't think it would be possible to get any kind of REALTIME use out of that sort of setup.

If your C64 is not used for anything productive (gathering dust on a shelf), dissect it for the SID chip and build a midibox SID.  So much easier than reverse engineering/coding.

Thanks for your explanation, I will study in detail all Midibox schematics and forum posts. I'm really happy to know that the problem has to be solved with C64 programming. Just a question... what is gizmo?

Scube

[Tanstaafl]

gizmo is a simple description for something complex... easier to say than "C64 User Port to RS-232 Converter"

However, what I was saying about using the C64 as it is, and using that 'gizmo' to interface to a midibox, this would be a monumental task.  A lot of programming on the C64 side, and I am afraid you probably could not get any help on that from this forum.  There might be old Commador users here, I am, but I really don't program them (at least not down to the hardware level)  I use mine with an old Sequencial Circuits keyboard that plugs into the game controller port.  The keyboard came with a program that allowed you to use the screen and computer keyboard to program the aspects of the SID.  It is kinda cool, but what I have heard from MidiBox SID units is far superior.

Good Luck

gb

[scube]

However, what I was saying about using the C64 as it is, and using that 'gizmo' to interface to a midibox, this would be a monumental task.  A lot of programming on the C64 side, and I am afraid you probably could not get any help on that from this forum.  There might be old Commador users here, I am, but I really don't program them (at least not down to the hardware level)  I use mine with an old Sequencial Circuits keyboard that plugs into the game controller port.  The keyboard came with a program that allowed you to use the screen and computer keyboard to program the aspects of the SID.  It is kinda cool, but what I have heard from MidiBox SID units is far superior.

I'd like to do something like this www.prophet64.com I'm really fascinated by the cartridge concept inserted it in one customized C64 (LCD monitor + MIDI surface). I'm analizing how to realize it and (for the moment) the bigger problem is the midi. Anyway.. I will continue to study Midibox project.. for C64 hard programming I think I have to read some dedicated books and post on commodorian forums. Anyway I consider MBSID really really interesting.

Best

Scube

[DrBunsen]

The Prophet 64 cartridge contains the software, it's not a MIDI converter. 

The knobs on the C64's you've seen are connected to the joystick port, they are not MIDI knobs. 

Forget about RS232, go straight to MIDI. 

You want a C=64 cartridge slot to MIDI "converter" or "interface" not a "control".  Just a cart with a MIDI port, that's what the Siel and Moog you mention at the start are. 

Then as long as the software running on the 64 can respond to MIDI, you can use any MIDI controller, not just a MIDIbox, to control that software.

I have a schematic at home for a C64 MIDI cartridge which is the same as the old Siel and Moog ones.  It came with a great program called "Triad MIDI Slave", the schematic is in the text file that comes with that program.  I can't find it online anywhere so PM me in a week and I'll send you my copy from home.  (I'm away till then)

It would be a lot easier to just buy a Prophet 64 and use the joystick knobs, but I guess you must have some other favourite C64 music software you want to use.

Is English your first language?  I get the feeling there are some misunderstandings in here, both in questions, and replies.

[DrBunsen]

Found it via the wayback machine at archive.org

Here ya go!

[scube]

I have a schematic at home for a C64 MIDI cartridge which is the same as the old Siel and Moog ones.  It came with a great program called "Triad MIDI Slave", the schematic is in the text file that comes with that program.  I can't find it online anywhere so PM me in a week and I'll send you my copy from home.  (I'm away till then)

It would be a lot easier to just buy a Prophet 64 and use the joystick knobs, but I guess you must have some other favourite C64 music software you want to use.

Is English your first language?  I get the feeling there are some misunderstandings in here, both in questions, and replies.

Obviously English is NOT my first language, I never studied it and I never spoke it. I'm learning English on web. But usually (this is the first time) I have not problem with people communication. Anyway, consider another likelihood: Your people-interface is not so flexible :P

Please explain me:

"You want a C=64 cartridge slot to MIDI "converter" or "interface" not a "control"."

CUT

"Then as long as the software running on the 64 can respond to MIDI, you can use any MIDI controller, not just a MIDIbox, to control that software."

Anyway... thanks for your suggestions, I will try to find "Triad MIDI Slave" cartridge, I will try to hack its code and I will try to include in my software. And After I will try to connect a MIDI surface (interface, controller) via RS-232 port.

Best,

Scube

[scube]

Found it via the wayback machine at archive.org

Here ya go!

Thank you man. This Archive redirect is broken, this is the new URL

http://www.df.lth.se/~triad/triad/3phile.php

Scube

[DrBunsen]

Please explain me:

"You want a C=64 cartridge slot to MIDI "converter" or "interface" not a "control"."

CUT

"Then as long as the software running on the 64 can respond to MIDI, you can use any MIDI controller, not just a MIDIbox, to control that software.

Okay

A controller is something that you can put your hands on, like a keyboard, or a knob box, that puts out MIDI messages.

An interface takes MIDI messages in and out of the computer.

I was probably wrong to say the cartridge port is the only place you can connect an interface.

Edit:  Another suggestion would be to use a multi-cart adapter, with a known-good cartridge port MIDI interface in one slot, and your software in a Freeze Frame or a home-made flash ROM cart, in the other slot.