Quick Newbie Question

[joost_db]

I would absolutely love to be able to make my own controller for Ableton and came across this page and it has got me wondering if I should spend my time to get into it.  My question is, if I wanted to make something with 64 push buttons 64 pots and faders (so i guess a MIDIbox 64) for someone with absolutley no prior knowledge (but quite technical - studied engineering at uni ;) is there alot of learning involved with this?

I mean is it just a matter of ordering the parts, designing and building the front panel, and plugging everything carefully and it will work?  I will then be able to assign the buttons and faders to ableton like I do any other midi controller?  Or is it trickier then this and does it require programming some code for the controller?

I am wondering if I should get into this or if there is too much learning (and time) involved.

Thanks for any help,

Joost

[moxi]

hi, and welcome

if you plan to build a MB64 as it's (well) explained on UcApps.de, you won't need special knowledge about programming, all the work is already done, the configuration and compilation procedures are quiet simple, and well explained too  ;)

and you will find here all the support you need !

[joost_db]

great i will go for it then!

I am about to place an order from http://www.mikes-elektronikseite.de/shop_englisch/index.htm

So far in my basket I have the following:

MIDIbox64

PIC18F452

LC Display 16x2 with backlight

ribbon cable, 16. pol 1 meter

MIDI cables, 1:1, 2x 5pol DIN-plug, 2m

Pots 10 k

Knobs for the Pots, black

Button Blue     

female connector 16-pin

LED, red 3 mm / 50 pcs.

Cheap LED Socket 3mm

Is this all I will need?  Is the device powered from the MIDI plug?  First I want to set everything up so am only getting a few pots and push buttons, then once I have got it working and finalised my design I will order a load from another site including some faders.

They are not selling a LCD module on this site...also not on SmashTV.  I will need to get this from someplace to be able to get the LCD screen to work right?

Will I also need 2 midi plugs?

Thanks for any help,

Joost

[doc]

Is the device powered from the MIDI plug?

No. You also need a power supply (something around 9V 500mA will do).

Will I also need 2 midi plugs?

Yes. Midi IN and Midi OUT

I will need to get this from someplace to be able to get the LCD screen to work right?

Yes. You will need a LCD to have a LCD screen  ;D

greets

Doc

[ultra]

don't you need AIN modules if you're going to use pots?  i guess i don't know because i'm building a seq that uses DIN and DOUT modules.

as someone who is also new to electronics and building a seq, i can offer you a few recommendations to get you started.

take it a single step at a time.  the seq project seemed overwhelming to me but by thinking in smaller steps, things have been working out.  the easiest thing to do is get a core kit w/pre-programmed PIC.  that way you'll already have the correct parts and a quality pcb.  to me it was well worth avoiding the hassle of finding the parts and making a pcb.

first, build the core, check your voltages, and then get your lcd working.  the information for both of these is on ucapps.  carefully check the pinouts of the lcd and core.  i think most lcds are not a 1:1 connection.  for the seq, i used 2 2x40 lcds.  i bought ribbon cable and the proper connectors (very easy to assemble) from futurlec.com but they're also on smashtv's site.  then i cut the cables, toned (continuity checker on your meter), and soldered the proper connections.  i used electrical tape but heat shrink tubing would be more professional i guess.  when you have your lcd working, you'll know it by the word "ready" on the screen.  i chose to not even think about buttons and encoders until i got to this point.

the additional modules you buy will depend on your layout.  i've seen ableton live controller concepts around the forum so search if you need some ideas.  you can design a visual layout using the free front panel designer software.  the additional module kits you buy (and of course pots, buttons, etc) depends on what's all on your layout.  once you have something you want, you can tally up the totals and then ask if it's possible to use your combination of controls.  saying "64 knobs and 64 buttons" doesn't sound like a controller built for live (you need clip selection buttons, perhaps a crossfader, etc) so i'd make a specific layout to get your numbers exact.

hope this helps!

[doc]

don't you need AIN modules if you're going to use pots?

2xAIN Modules are in the Midibox64 Kit from mike!

This is allright then.

greets

Doc

[kris]

youll probably need more than 1 meter of ribbon cable

it will all be worthwile the feeling you get when youve made your own controller is so muuch better than buying one

              good luck

[ultra]

ribbon cable and connectors are dirt cheap at futurlec, so yeah i'd buy extra.  they have the rainbow stuff available at smashtv's site.  a couple things about futurlec:  they take a long time to ship and their customer service dept is non-existent.  but you will get your parts and what i've ordered has been decent quality.  i've found the negatives about them to be still worth the price.

[joost_db]

thanks for the info.  i am still however unsure as to whether i need to buy a seperate LCD module in order to use the LCD screen that i ordered.

from reading this http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=lcds there is no mention of any LCD modules and I cant seem to find them in any online store which has got me thinking the LCD screen will plug directly into the core module.

My soundcard has no MIDI input (yet)  is it easy to install the USB module and use it this way?

You also need a power supply (something around 9V 500mA will do).

I am guessing i can solder the + and - of the powersupply directly onto the core module somewhere?

Joost

[ultra]

check ucapps.de.  all the questions you're asking are answered in there.

the .pdf files on ucapps explain what the lcd pinout of the core is.  you also should check the data sheet for the lcd you ordered and see if the pins match.  if not, you'll have to make the proper connections.  yes the lcd plugs directly into the core module.  it's just a matter of making sure the connections are proper.

the polarity of the power to the core doesn't matter, as explained on ucapps.de.  you can even test it on a 9 volt battery if you want, as long as you don't hook up the lcd backlight (there probably won't be enough power).  i used a 9v to test my lcd at first and also to check voltages on the core (which is the first thing you should do after assembling it, info for that is on ucapps as well).

your first steps are to assemble the core, check voltages, and then get the lcd working and the information to do these things are very well documented.

[joost_db]

I am looking for places to buy the following parts:

Pushbuttons with integrated LEDs so that the button can glow when the clip is playing in Live.

Round pushbuttons with integrated LEDs but around the buttons (allen&heath xone style)

Good faders

Rotary encoders (or potentiometers actually, which one has a fluid rotational movement? similar to those on DJ mixers)  that have an integrated push button so they can be pushed to turn on/off and effect in Live.

I am based in Holland, have been looking at http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=where_to_order_components but cant seem to find any of these.

Can anyone help me out with this?  I will order from the US if i need to.

[MRE]

thanks for the info.  i am still however unsure as to whether i need to buy a seperate LCD module in order to use the LCD screen that i ordered.

from reading this http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=lcds there is no mention of any LCD modules and I cant seem to find them in any online store which has got me thinking the LCD screen will plug directly into the core module.

My soundcard has no MIDI input (yet)  is it easy to install the USB module and use it this way?

I am guessing i can solder the + and - of the powersupply directly onto the core module somewhere?

Joost

I am seeing from  your post that you perhaps think there is an LCD module (circuit) that would connect between the LCD screen you purchased and the Core module. I think some language being used must have confused you. Many people use the term 'LCD module' to refere to the LCD screen.

The LCD you purchased should connect directly to the Core (assuming you create the proper wire connections). There is not a circuit board that is to be connected BETWEEN them.

You SHOULD double check that your LCD screen is compatable with the Core (most are).

MIDI soundcard:

It may be best (easiest) to simply purchase a USB - MIDI unit. There are several with Midi In, out and thru. They go for prices well under $100 for a simple (no thrills) device.

[stryd_one]

I might elaborate more... (Sorry MRE)

An LCD screen is the part that shows the actual image or text.

These screens need a microcontroller to control which pixels on the screen are on or off (or colours). For the MIDIBox this is the HD44780 (or compatible).

This driver enables different models of screens to be easily programmed to work with different MCU's (PIC, AVR, etc) because they are all driven by the same standard protocol, and more importantly it allows a single 8 bit parrallel interface to be used to drive the display. Without this, the PIC would have to drive the LCD's pixel grid all by itself, using too many CPU cycles and IO pins.

This means that the LCD driver IC is always the most practical solution, and so when you buy a screen, it will almost always have the driver IC on a PCB attached to the screen.

This whole assembly is most correctly referred to as the LCD module, but the term LCD screen is widely used in it's place, as LCD screens are rarely found in any other configuration than as a part of an LCD module which includes the PCB stuffed with the driver IC(s).

Hope that helps!

[MRE]

and Stryder says "booo-yaaah to yer grandma!!"

Exactly what he said.

It helps that less and less often you see 'strange' driver ICs in the surplus market, meaning that most of the time whatever LDC module you get will work.

Also, LCD modules often conform to one of two interconnect standards (pins in a row, or pins in two rows).  Wacky pin configuratons still exist, so always double check the datasheet before making your cables.