compuzik

Adaption of Waldorf Nano

57 posts in this topic

Hi together!

Currently Waldorf sells a Expansion Board for the CME Midikeyboards.  You can find it on german seller Thomann:

http://www.thomann.de/de/waldorf_nano_synth_fuer_cme_uf_keyboard.htm

It has round a about 1000 Sounds of Waldorf Q (microQ) and it has also limited possibilities to edit the sound in some parameters.

Did anybody (especially you, Thorsten  :)) think about to adapt this expander on a midi device? Any ideas?

Bye, Achim....

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I thought about this, but really it would be easier and cheaper to just buy the small CME keys.

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Hi,

did anybody investigate this subject ?

As I can see on this

there are two small connectors - probably power and TTL midi signals. Unfortunatelly I dont have CME keyboard and I'm not able to check if i'm right.

IMHO there is no reason to make Waldorf Nano standalone (especially now, when there is much better Blofeld),

but there is also much more interesting module: Use Audio Plugiator - 7 synths based on creamware/sonicore plugins.

ASX pluging is cheapper then desktopop module and is really small - it could be possible to fit in 1U rack, or to build minimoog/propeth clone with mios based control surface :whistle:

EDIT: ASX manual - there is 2 pin midi in connection and 4 pin power connector onboard.

Edited by maniac

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I agree with you Maniac,

The ASX is much more interesting.

I have already a Plugiator which actually host an ASX board.

I had in mind a project to make a synth based on a Core32 board to control such an ASX board.

I have more time to think about such project but miss some hardware to build up my very first Core32 board (ordered from SmashTV).

The thing I still have to figure out is a way to layout the controller to make it efficient for the most intersting plug-ins available on the ASX: LightWave and Minimax are provided with the board, Pro12 and Prodyssey being available through an extra plug-in bundle (99 € roughly).

The trick is to organise the controller to merge the required control elements for these 4 plug-ins.

The common structure is 2 or 3 osc mixed down to 1 or 2 filters...

The most complex is the Lightwave which sounds like a good digital synth (a kind of simplifyed prophet VS).

The most analog like sounding are the 3 others Minimax (inspired from the Minimoog), the Pro12 (inspired from the Prophet 5) and the most intereting Prodyssey (inspired from the ARP Odyssey).

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The ASX module is way more interesting.

I was looking at the CME + ASX combo awhile back. But didnt like the feel of the CME keyboard. To many people were having problems with it aswell. So i left it. The plugiator module itself seems to be lacking controls. Bundling the ASX with a MB64 would totally solve that.

The hard part is to make a proper interface that would suit most plugins. I don't think a core32 is a strict requirement and would probably make it harder as the MB64 hasnt been ported from MIOS8. Besides that the ASX module has it's own USB port for MIDI connection.

Edited by Shuriken

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For me the ASX USB port is more or less usefull for preset management.

The idea would be to assign midi CC in a generic way and remap the CC message to the ASX fixed CC map...

For example, the OSC 1(A) Frequency should always be the same CC message which is not the case in the ASX/Plugiator.

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I did not meant that the Core32 was required, it is just the first and only Midibox board I have so far ...

And I also had in mind something combining a kind of MidiSeq altogether with some ASX control knobs and switches to provide something more user-friendly than the limited plugiator user interface: I had in mind to attempt to merge the more user-friendly old Creamware/SonicCore ASB module into something new, not only dedicated to MINIMAX but providing a solution for LightWave, Pro12 and Prodyssey (and maybe something for the Plugiator also).

Edited by HUROLURA

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Some usefull and visually easy to read information can be found there:

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26107

This is focused on the main and most interesting plug available for the Plugiator:

- Prodyssey

- Pro12

- Minimax

- LightWave

...

The others are:

- The Vocodizer (a really interesting Vocoder with an integrated synth part - inherited from the LightWave)

- The B3000 (an Hammond emulation which as less in common with the other synth oriented plugs)

- The FMagia (more 4 Op FM synth)

- The Drum'N'Bass (More simple Groovebox sound source)

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Just a heads-up. By the look of things the Plugiator ASX board might be EOL. Thomann is no longer carrying the ASX version. And i had a search on the web and couldn't find much stores who carry it either.

So i made the jump and ordered one from ebay for 149euro. I am not even close to starting this project, but would hate to miss out on it later because i couldn't get the board anymore. First i need to give my MB-6582 it much needed attention and my MBFM project is also in a state of flux.

As far as the design goes, i had a look at the Arturia Origin. This is more or less what you describe in the sense of the interface. It combines a control interface and a sequencer.

Edited by Shuriken

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Yep, I noticed the Arturia Origin, but for the moment it is far to expensive for me.

Moreover, I already own 2 Plugiator unit I bought on ebay with the full range of plugin so for me the ASX board are already here.

The ASX board (under CME brand) is also offered as a so called X-synth board provided by Icon (but I must admit I never saw some X-Synth board for sale, only their host masterkeybaord the "Inspire" series.

The availablity of the ASX board by Thomann is kind of changing month by month. Sometime you only have the plugiator available, sometime the ASX an extra plug-in bundle are also for sale.

By the way the price you paid for the ASX is fair as it was the price thomann had it for sale it the last 3 months

Also available there for example:

http://digitalaudioservice.fr/plugiator-asx-board.html?___store=french&___from_store=english

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Yep, I noticed the Arturia Origin, but for the moment it is far to expensive for me.

Moreover, I already own 2 Plugiator unit I bought on ebay with the full range of plugin so for me the ASX board are already here.

The ASX board (under CME brand) is also offered as a so called X-synth board provided by Icon (but I must admit I never saw some X-Synth board for sale, only their host masterkeybaord the "Inspire" series.

The availablity of the ASX board by Thomann is kind of changing month by month. Sometime you only have the plugiator available, sometime the ASX an extra plug-in bundle are also for sale.

By the way the price you paid for the ASX is fair as it was the price thomann had it for sale it the last 3 months

Also available there for example:

http://digitalaudioservice.fr/plugiator-asx-board.html?___store=french&___from_store=english

I have received the board. Have you ever found out what the power requirements of the ASX board is? It has a 4 pin power connector. So i would assume it requires 2 different voltages.

Is the board inside the Plugiator desktop module exactly the same?

Edited by Shuriken

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From what I Know and what I can see on pictures of the ASX compared to the look I had inside one of my Plugiator the only difference I can see is the metal plate (which is probably also the difference between the CME branded ASX and the ICON branded X-Synth: http://www.icon-global.com/music/music/product.php?cpl2shu1_id=1&cpl3shu1_id=1&cpl3shu2_id=104 ).

I requested some more info from use-audio guys but I had no feedback so far except for a "we will give you answer asap message".

If you are not to hurry, I will try to find time to make a few measurement to check what the pinout is and what the necesary wire are.

From what I see so far the plugiator is split in 3 boards:

- 1 power supply switch & connector + MIDI I/O connector: this one is really basic

- 1 ASX / X-Synth DSP board including USB and audio I/O: the most complex one

- 1 controller board which handles the plugiator user interface (AVR based microcontroller handling the 11 encoders, 10 swicthes, 8 leds and the 3 digit led display of the front panel): a kind of MIDIBOX board actually ...

The link between the different boards is as follow:

- power supply and midi connectors are linked with the main "ASX" board withe 3 connectors :

=> 1 is 4 wired

=> 2 are 2 wired

- the front panel board is directly linked to the main "ASX" board with a unique strip connector

Edited by HUROLURA

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Regarding for power requirement: the full Plugiator Module require a 9 VDC - 500 mA power supply.

Regarding the board the PCB has "CME ASX rev 1.3 © inDSP Audio Technologies" written on it, so yes I guess the plugiator main board and the ASX board are the same.

Regarding the 3 small connectors:

- a closer look seem to make me guess that the dual wire ones are for MIDI IN and MIDI OUT connexions.

- the 4 wire one should be for the main power supply

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From what I Know and what I can see on pictures of the ASX compared to the look I had inside one of my Plugiator the only difference I can see is the metal plate (which is probably also the difference between the CME branded ASX and the ICON branded X-Synth: http://www.icon-global.com/music/music/product.php?cpl2shu1_id=1&cpl3shu1_id=1&cpl3shu2_id=104 ).

I requested some more info from use-audio guys but I had no feedback so far except for a "we will give you answer asap message".

If you are not to hurry, I will try to find time to make a few measurement to check what the pinout is and what the necesary wire are.

From what I see so far the plugiator is split in 3 boards:

- 1 power supply switch & connector + MIDI I/O connector: this one is really basic

- 1 ASX / X-Synth DSP board including USB and audio I/O: the most complex one

- 1 controller board which handles the plugiator user interface (AVR based microcontroller handling the 11 encoders, 10 swicthes, 8 leds and the 3 digit led display of the front panel): a kind of MIDIBOX board actually ...

The link between the different boards is as follow:

- power supply and midi connectors are linked with the main "ASX" board withe 3 connectors :

=> 1 is 4 wired

=> 2 are 2 wired

- the front panel board is directly linked to the main "ASX" board with a unique strip connector

I assume the front panel connector is 8 pin one on the top left of the board. I would be gratefull if you could take some measurements. I have also e-mailed Use Audio but i don't think it will get me anywhere.

Regarding for power requirement: the full Plugiator Module require a 9 VDC - 500 mA power supply.

Regarding the board the PCB has "CME ASX rev 1.3 © inDSP Audio Technologies" written on it, so yes I guess the plugiator main board and the ASX board are the same.

Regarding the 3 small connectors:

- a closer look seem to make me guess that the dual wire ones are for MIDI IN and MIDI OUT connexions.

- the 4 wire one should be for the main power supply

My ASX board has the same thing written on it. So that confirms it.

The two white two wire plugs are indeed MIDI IN and MIDI Thru.

Either of the white four plugs is for power.

The ASX board is back and available in stock at Thomann :

http://www.thomann.de/fr/use_audio_plugiator_asx_board.htm

Do not find any EOL information about this one.

That was just my impression. I couldn't find the board anymore in Dutch Music Stores. And since Thomann wasnt carrying it either i came to that conclusion.

Edited by Shuriken

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Actually the front panel board connector is the 6 pin black one.

What is good is that if the ASX is available once again at thomann so some other people could join us to setup something using it ... :).

But merging the whole set of plugins available intoa unique front panel is not that simple.

The Drums'N'Bass is espacially kind of out of range except if you focus on each of its instruments (especially the bass synth).

The B4000 is also special about it.

Maybe we should focus on synths like Minimax/LightWave/Prodyssey/Pro12 as they all have a similar structure including OSC/FILTER/AMP ...

The vocodizer also include a similar simplyfied structure in its synthesis part

So any idea about that ?

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The B4000 maybe a special but Use Audio did keep the most common midi control changes the same.

Would be nice if we could somehow find a compromise for the additional plug ins as well. Unfortunately no Midi implementation can be found online.

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Here is the information you need for the Drum'N'Bass

post-6970-126979710297_thumb.jpg

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Here is the information you for FMagia

post-6970-126979723642_thumb.jpg

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And you can find usefull though partial information (limited to CC messages) here:

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26107

I have the full information PolyAT message inclusive but it is only on a draft paper so far ...

My idea was to implement 4 differents things in this device:

- a kind of MidiBox "dedicated" to these synths

- a subset of the MIDIBox Seq v4

- a midi translator tool allowing to remap midi message from one source to one destination (the idea behind this would be to allow ASB module to take control other ASX/plugiator board as they do not have exactly the same CC mapping !!!)

- a MIDI preset interpolation feature to allow an alternate way of using the controller to adjust between two preset to build a third one

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And you can find usefull though partial information (limited to CC messages) here:

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26107

I have the full information PolyAT message inclusive but it is only on a draft paper so far ...

My idea was to implement 4 differents things in this device:

- a kind of MidiBox "dedicated" to these synths

- a subset of the MIDIBox Seq v4

- a midi translator tool allowing to remap midi message from one source to one destination (the idea behind this would be to allow ASB module to take control other ASX/plugiator board as they do not have exactly the same CC mapping !!!)

- a MIDI preset interpolation feature to allow an alternate way of using the controller to adjust between two preset to build a third one

Ok, thats helpfull. I must say that both the Lightwave and the Pro 12 have an enormous amount of controller knobs. It will be very difficult to make a general control interface compatible with all these plugins.

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Actually, the LightWave is maybe the most comlex in term of number of control elements.

But basically its structure is quite similar to the structure of the other old-school inspired synths (Minimax, Pro12, and Prodyssey):

a set of sound sources (osc + noise) mixed altogether in a filter (2 for the LightWave) and getting to an amplifier section (with the addition of a panning management for the LightWave).

So the LightWave is the most complex regarding these figures but sound more "digital" than the others.

Also the mod matrix is the most flexible on the LightWave though the Prodyssey also has nice extra (non dedicated enveloppe, S&H ...) and the Pro 12 one is also great.

The Minimax has an extra oscillator but no LFO so you have to sacrify the third oscillator in case you need an LFO.

So there are to directions possible now:

- setting up huge and maximized controller providing the max of what all of them provide.

Something like this: http://www.synth-project.de/Gallery/Seiten/Pure-MCone.html#16

- setting up something more condesnsed with an oscillator/mix/filter/VCA + additionnal mod contoller (EG + lfo) with a mean to switch between the different instance of each of the elements provided (I mean, a switch between the different oscillator for example with only one oscillator element set available like what the Novation X-Station provide).

A first rough idea bellow:

post-6970-126981048382_thumb.jpg

Edited by HUROLURA

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Actually, the LightWave is maybe the most comlex in term of number of control elements.

But basically its structure is quite similar to the structure of the other old-school inspired synths (Minimax, Pro12, and Prodyssey):

a set of sound sources (osc + noise) mixed altogether in a filter (2 for the LightWave) and getting to an amplifier section (with the addition of a panning management for the LightWave).

So the LightWave is the most complex regarding these figures but sound more "digital" than the others.

Also the mod matrix is the most flexible on the LightWave though the Prodyssey also has nice extra (non dedicated enveloppe, S&H ...) and the Pro 12 one is also great.

The Minimax has an extra oscillator but no LFO so you have to sacrify the third oscillator in case you need an LFO.

So there are to directions possible now:

- setting up huge and maximized controller providing the max of what all of them provide.

Something like this: http://www.synth-project.de/Gallery/Seiten/Pure-MCone.html#16

- setting up something more condesnsed with an oscillator/mix/filter/VCA + additionnal mod contoller (EG + lfo) with a mean to switch between the different instance of each of the elements provided (I mean, a switch between the different oscillator for example with only one oscillator element set available like what the Novation X-Station provide).

A first rough idea bellow:

post-6970-126981048382_thumb.jpg

The first idea scared the hell out of me :frantics:

The second idea is more to my liking and this is what i had in mind. I am still wondering if i should go with just using a MIOS8 or start with MIOS32.

I had a reply from Use Audio. According to them the power should be 9 volts. But i think they didn't quite get what i meant (or didnt want to :shifty: ) I wont dare putting any power on the board till someone has done some confirmed measurements.

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take a picture of the board, open it in paint, then label the pins you need the info about, send an email to useaudio again attach the picture, ask them for the details of each pin assignment/rating details of in and out functions per pin. if you send them a picture they may be more likely to help, simply because they can see you actually own a board in the first place.

they are the best people to let you know what each pin's assignment is.

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take a picture of the board, open it in paint, then label the pins you need the info about, send an email to useaudio again attach the picture, ask them for the details of each pin assignment/rating details of in and out functions per pin. if you send them a picture they may be more likely to help, simply because they can see you actually own a board in the first place.

they are the best people to let you know what each pin's assignment is.

I already made some pictures. So i have taken your suggestion and mailed it back to them.

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