Standalone pc synth controlled by midibox..

[TheAncientOne]

You posted a link earlier to win98lite as an optional os.  Even embedded w98 like http://www.embeddingwindows.com/ would not occupy more than approx 20MB leaving plenty space for storage or "scratch space" on a 1GB CF card.  Even adding a 2nd CF to IDE adapter to the setup will be cheep :-)  One internal CF for OS, and 1 external accessible CF for storage etc....

Perhaps I hadn't explained too well: I should have said swap file, (late and tired). For normal storage CF would be fine - and I really like your idea of internal and external CF's. What I was thinking of as a problem was if I ended up with swap, buffer or cache file on the CF. There is a limit to the number of times you can write a location in a CF. It's now in the high tens of thousands, and good CF software will do intelligent writing, only changing the bits it needs to, but a swap file will wear a CF out in months. A friend did a smoothwall using CF, and the first one failed because of this. The optimum solution for him, to get a quiet machine was a laptop drive in a cooler. It might also be possible to use a RAM drive of some kind, I have seen 2G battery backed up ones in some industrial stuff.

I use a 3U industrial enclosure today with my Creamware setup.  It's solid and heavy..... too heavy... I also find the pc/server 3U industy enclosure too deep (allmost the deep as wide)  I want to be able to easy carry the "PC-midibox-synth" hopefully in a rackbag...

My initial plan is for a 'test rig' machine I can rack mount, though I wouldn't want a full depth server case, rather one of those rack mount ATX cases Scan near me do new ones, but I'm hoping to get something second hand. Once I know what works, and what I want, then I'll look at doing a custom case. Old Dell desktops often had passive ISA riser cards in them, I've kept a couple somewhere. the later ones had PCI risers. You can often get complete optiplex's (I think they were called) for £20, and the case is narrow enough to adapt for rackmount. In my case I'd consider getting an alloy top cover done, and see what other weight I could shave off. Your rig in a rackbag sounds well cool. One custom Idea I've thought of is to take a disc cutter to an existing case, or drill out the spotwelds, and thus get the 'difficult' backplate metalwork to incorporate into something lighter and smaller.

Prof: Do you plan to only use Converter or as a multipurpose synth-midibox-pc?

(As I still have some old motherboards with fanless intel pentium 233, I guess I could stuff it inside a 1U enclosure as a Converter only box.)

I'm still experimenting. Converter looks good enought to do a stand alone unit from. I'll see how it goes once I've run it for a bit. The 1U idea isn't too easy, but could be done, and would be well cool. On that subject, I'm also looking at some kind of 'heatpipe to fin' idea, to avoid the size and noise of a processor fan. I fancy something more variable in general, though if converter is good, I might do a machine just for it. I do like the concept of an 'appliance' PC, as opposed to general purpose ones. My first appliance was a Smoothwall firewall. My second experiment was with 'FreeNAS', which may go 'final' once I can afford a few more discs.

Like you, I'm trying to find a good use for some old motherboards. I've got a couple of the IBM 'Blue Lightning' chips, a sort of souped up 486, which is passive cooled. I'm wondering if one of these might work.

I might state here my informal 'Prof's First Rule of RetroTech': "Always have a spare".

If you are building a gadget using obsolete technology, make sure you keep some spares, at least enough to cover you whilst you design a mark 2, when they start to run out. I learned this the hard way with my first domestic heating control  system, built using an old obsolete PLC. One night it died, and we had a cold week whilst I built a new one. My mum, who I lived with back then, was not happy. Mark 2 used an old BBC micro.I had loads of spares, and of course, true to Murphy's law, it was still running when we sold the house years later.

If anyone wants a BBC, by the way, let me know, I've got quite a few, legacy's from when I did repairs for local schools: when they all went to PC's I kept being offered the old stuff. They've got a Texas 76489 sound gen as well as a load of usable IO. Postage outside the UK might be a killer, sadly.

Mike

[mjproc]

For anybody sticking with 98SE or 98lite, the notorious Lexicon Core2 has served very well here under those, just so long as you're not trying to run brand new motherboards or chipsets

I like your initial though to reuse "old" soundcards (add to the list: Yamaha DSP Factory, SW1000Xg, DB50XG etc).. For a DIY opensource projects like midibox-ish types, I think soundblaster Live / Audigy2 is easier to get 2nd hand or new.  Their cheep, and with the kxdriver project, it's great to tweak to individual usage..  I guess for those allready sitting on a quality "old" soundcard, reuse is great ;-)

Ole P

[kris]

yea the yamaha sound cards are great as you say not so cheap

i like the idea of booting straight into a daw with a midibox front end very intriquing

but ive got a lot of other things to do first

regards kris

[Jidis]

Yeah, with the Core2, I actually meant buying one. Not sure how common it is now, but for a while it had such a horrible rep that you would see it on eBay for 15 and 20 bucks sometimes. Not many people knew that it actually could work. If you play by the rules and can deal with a little resource management, it does fine and stays completely invisible (problem-wise ;)). The ADAT i/o is it's true beauty. With a cheap ADA8000 or AI-3 converter tied to it, you could have a pretty solid box for 8-track remote recording, complete with outboard conversion for a couple hundred dollars.

I've also got a Live card around here that someone gave me. I've been meaning to check it out, as it did have S/PDIF IIRC, and it was supposed to have some usable ROM sounds. I thought I remembered reading that it did some weird non-bypassable on-the-fly sample rate conversion to 48k or something that people didn't seem to care for. ??? 

Would be cool if one of the underdog DAW software systems added support for GUI-less control like we're talking about. Think if you could set up scripts to initiate all the basic session junk (loading, saving,etc.) either via MIDI, or some way to feed the data out to an LCD or something other than the graphics card. Under a common OS with VST/ASIO support, it would kick the crap out of many a standalone harddisk recorder, probably for less money.

George

booting straight into a daw with a midibox front end very intriquing but ive got a lot of other things to do first

Man, I know the feeling. :'( :'( :'(

One Core2 here was set aside to go in such a remote 8-track, hopefully with a control surface, and it's looking like an impossible dream now. I've actually got a really nice single board P3, with LCD support and a PCI slot set aside for it, and by the time it ever happens, that will probably be like running a 386.

[mjproc]

Stumbeled over this hobby project, just had to post it here:http://www.dreamfabric.com/blt/mono.html

I liked the sound,,,,  I have an embedded box,,,, add linux + java + this kind of app and ofc. midibox

(allmost midibox blue)

Ahhhh my head blows.... If I only were a programmer ;-)

I've tried to use my initial setup (shuttle barebone + kxdriver (asynth + drumsynth) ) but to get this setup going....

the downs so far:

- need to manually set the midi every time on the synths (does not save the selected midi-ins)

- must use midiox (unstable)

The above steps must be set (and monitored) all the time - > not a chance to use without keyboard, mouse and screen

oh well..... I will fight this thing.... I want one of those midibox blue-synths :-)

[kris]

im surprised you say midi-ox is unstable ive allways found it most useful and reliable

regards kris

[mjproc]

After another week, testing and searching the web..... I kindof have a conclusion...

I guess best software option realizing this "project" is:

Use a Linux distro with realtime kernel. I guess ranked from top:

Pure:dynehttps://devel.goto10.org/puredyne,

Agnula/demudi http://www.agnula.info/,

JAD http://jacklab.org

Sounds:

ZynAddSubFX http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net

Hardware:

Small factor motherboard with good cpu (AMD64 2GHz, 1GB ram, 2.5" harddrive, CF storage for pathes/instruments. 

Soundcard:  Onboard with spdif I/O

Graphics: none

My plan/hope is to boot this with no xwindows, starting jackserver with zynaddsubfx patched to i/o.  Midibox set to control all needed parameters including patchchange.

To program/change the unit I will use a laptop with ssh

(Jackrack looks interesting too, to utilize an "all kinds off effects box".  Maby a duo Jacjracj + zynaddsubfx...

I've tried to run the above on a VIA533 embedded computer from CF only..... sadly there is not enough power.... I guess the new breed of VIA based mobos can be powerful enogh... 

[stryd_one]

Just a word of advice: Never, ever use a VIA chipset for an audio PC. I don't think they've released a single one that was not critically buggy in some way with some pro audio soft- or hardware.

[Catchpole]

I've looked at "embedded" PC solutions over the years.  It's hard to bridge that microcontroller to PC gap - in that to use a PC you need a lot of hardware.  The problem with say cutting up a laptop is replaceability.  If it blows up, how quickly can you replace it.

Linux would be your best bet for an embedded solution (not taking into account drivers).  The other thing is you can have this think boot off a memory stick.  For rack mounting, you might get away with a small mother board, a USB stick and no hard drive.

[mjproc]

In danger of repeating myselves...... ZynAddSubFx!!!! again.... ZynAddSubFx!!!! omg!!!

Absolutely wonderful synth !!! The different flawors of sound synthesis that this pieze of software can do!!!

I've been playing this for a week now running from JAD distro (In know it was my 3rd alternative distro,,, but I like the Suse-ish over Pure:dyne..... cause I'm a linux newbie and will allways be)

I control zynaddsubfx with my maudio keystation pro88 (to feel how midibox64-ish controller should be layed out)

I'm not sure if I will use two 2x40 lcd panels or a touch 10,2" touch lcd, I guess using 2x40 lcd's will need many modification to mios...  Using a touch lcd will easen the patch selection and navigation....

Using a 10,2" lcd will also occupy large space, leaving not many options to fit many pots on a 3U panel..

Btw....

I stumbled over an italian synth that use linux and zynaddsubfx + + (can't find th correct url now...)  I will update thread if I find the synth again.... update: found it... http://www.lionstracs.com/

I've just downloaded some drum patches for zyn,,,, time to start up mbseq and have some fun for a couple of hours... cheers!