Stigmata Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hi there.Long time since I wrote here....I´m now planing the upgrade to SID V2.I´m little confused about the CAN-Bus.What kind of cabel from the J2(Vd) shall I use???I think I`m confused becuse TK draw the cabel larger than the other.. ??? ::) (in the pdf).What I can see the CAN RX and the CAN TX going to the same cabel?? or I´m missing something??Best/ Christoffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernLightX Posted July 23, 2007 Report Share Posted July 23, 2007 You can use any copper cable, but insulated is preferred i think. the length does not matter. RX and TX are on the same cable, just solder the resistor and the diode as shown in the schematic and it will work :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyutaeha Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 So is a copper wire standard for the can bus to work or something? I'm using the same ribbon wire I've used to connect everything else for the can bus connection and I can't get it to recognize anything more than the second core. When I try to extend it, it gives me a Can bus error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 a Can bus error.Is this a guessing game? Or did you just forget to post the error? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucem Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Have you mounted the pull-up resistors on both ends of the CAN-bus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblinz Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Is this a guessing game? Or did you just forget to post the error? ;)My MB-6582 is showing up a "CAN Bus error" ATM. Nothing more discriptive than that though. I need to do some more investigation before I give up trying to trouble shoot it myself though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 I need to do some more investigation before I give up trying to trouble shoot it myself though.:D Text adventure!Bon Voyage G! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblinz Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 :D Text adventure!Bon Voyage G!I'm sure it's something obvious. I can't upload Mios to the slaves so am guessing there's a CAN error. I can only upload MIOS to a chip in the master core if it's ID is 00..... Something very strange is afoot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugfight Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 a few ideasfor can: make sure the diodes aren't in backwards,for id: make sure the id is what you think it is, and that you are setting it properly in mios studio, and that you are setting J11 correctly (not to be confused with Core1_J11) *edit* (this line applies only to mb-6582) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyutaeha Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 I really can't figure out what the problem is. I've spent hours and hours troubleshooting and I'm stuck.This is how my literal connections are(I didn't include the J11...they're connected correctly).http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid/mbsid_v2_communication.pdfWith this I get a 1-** on the menu.Then I try to extend it to the third core like this:I get a 1*** with "CAN bus error" when trying to select the other SIDs.So I suspect that maybe the third core is mucked up somehow, so I try this:With this I get a 1*-* on the menu.Are these connections correct? I've put 99% of my MBSID together, complete with control surface and everything. All that's left is to figure out how to get all four cores recognized and I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong to save my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblinz Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 It needs setting in MIOS studio? ***Slaps Head***. I would have got there eventually.a few ideasfor can: make sure the diodes aren't in backwards,for id: make sure the id is what you think it is, and that you are setting it properly in mios studio, and that you are setting J11 correctly (not to be confused with Core1_J11) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyutaeha Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Have you mounted the pull-up resistors on both ends of the CAN-bus?No, but there's not another resistor at the end on the pdf schematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenDer Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 and that you are setting J11 correctly (not to be confused with Core1_J11)What do you mean by this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugfight Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 What do you mean by this?akk i see goblinz didn't mention his is a mb-6582. that part only applies to the mb-6582. i'll edit that post to reflect this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenDer Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 Thnx Bug for clearing that up.....got me confused since i'm in the middle of connecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucem Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 The extra resistor on the other end is in the CAN standard -CAN is a double-end terminated bus, thus it should be in there (and nowhere else). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lylehaze Posted September 19, 2008 Report Share Posted September 19, 2008 The CAN standard applies when every node is using a CAN transciever chip. In that case, you need a 120 Ohm resistor at each end of the run.The drawing shown here is NOT the standard for CAN. It's a diode-AND configuration. It uses less parts (no transciever chips) and should work great for LOCAL wiring. It will NOT be as robust over long distances as proper CAN chips can do.Just my two cents, if I'm wrong, please correct me.LyleHazep.s. ribbon cable can lead to signal crosstalk. try running CAN on a separate wire to see if that helps! When CAN transciever chips are used, the differential input section reduces a lot of that kind of noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyutaeha Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Does anyone know where I could find some pictures that describe the process of connecting the CAN bus? I've spent at least 10 hours working on this problem and I haven't gone anywhere with it. It's really frustrating, like I was on the verge of frying the whole damn thing with my laser eyeballs. Good thing I got up and left before it got that far.But seriously, this whole process is the last wall between me and and a fully functioning 4xSID/4xchannel MBSID and I just can't wrap my head around it apparently.It seems that only one other channel can be recognized; when three cores are connected like the schematic shows, only one other channel shows up on the menu (1*-*). But, say if I disconnect it all and reconnect, it sometimes picks up the other one (1-**). It's completely random and makes no sense.I'm thinking maybe I'm using the wrong kind of wire for the CAN bus line or something(what has anyone else used for a 3 or more core connection?). I'm using two ribbon cable wires with two ends soldered together(successfully got one slave working, now I'm working on two) for my CAN wire and connected the D3s together(which are all shorted to D2 with the diode, and the 1K resistor at the first core) and it gives me the issues mentioned above.try running CAN on a separate wire to see if that helps!I honestly don't know what that would look like or if I'm doing that already or not. If I could see a pic of what a properly done CAN bus looks like, then I'll know what I'm trying to shoot for here. (Visual learning tendencies and electronics don't mix!)Thanks, Karac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Just a suggestion - instead of asking for pics, maybe you could supply some? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lylehaze Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Just a few ideas.. I have not built one of these, but I think I understand the drawing.The way the diodes are drawn, if ANY chip output (from the D2 connection of any core) goes LOW (near GND), then ALL the inputs(d3) will read LOW.I don't know if you are using separate cores or if they are all on one board, but if they are separate, this will only work if they all have the same ground. Check that.Next thought.. if the (d2) output of any core stays LOW, NONE of the boards can talk, which would probably look like a CAN bus error.Pardon the stupid question, but is the software loaded on ALL the cores? Are ALL of them set up to use CAN comms?If ANY of the attached cores doesn't know it's supposed to be doing CAN, then they will all get confused.Finally, didn't the CAN pins used to be used for the LCD display? Are ALL of the cores set up for either 4 bit LCD or no LCD at all? If a core is trying to display "Hello World" through the 8 bit LCD port, your CAN stuff will get knocked out.But like I said, I have no experience with this project, I'm just guessing.Good Luck,LyleHaze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyutaeha Posted September 21, 2008 Report Share Posted September 21, 2008 OK so I figured out what I was doing wrong. Somewhere along the way I was convinced (for what reason, I can't remember) that the diodes were connected to the core with wires, so I mounted the diodes on a seperate piece of perfboard and ran the wires there. When I was looking for some pictures to show me something about the CAN bus I ran across some pics of Wisefire mounting caps directly to the bottom of the pcb. This being my first project and all, I didn't even realize I could do that. I figured that mounting it on bottom would mess things up for some reason.Anyways, mounting the diodes directly to the bottom of the pcb fixed the problem. (It makes perfect sense now that I think about it.)I'm really sorry for wasting everyones time, however the suggestions helped me look in the right direction to figure out what I was doing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucem Posted September 21, 2008 Report Share Posted September 21, 2008 You're welcome, glad to hear ot works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryd_one Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 Now you know why I suggested posting pics ;)Well, with wires, or direct, should be fine either way... perhaps you also accidentally fixed a soldering error :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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