Looking for advice and/or help

[goonzy]

Hi,

I'm new to this Forum, and a complete crap at soldering.. so I'd like to know if a charitable soul would help me in building a Midibox Sid with 2 chips, or if there were people doing pre-build gear.

Cheers in advance

[stryd_one]

Welcome aboard goonzy.

You know, in the time it would take you to ship the completed box, you could learn all the skills you need on a cheap kit... And this is a DIY project, so it's encouraged that you do so.

[Twin-X]

or if there were people doing pre-build gear.

Cheers in advance

Doing pre build is forbidden here. But why don't you start with a small cheap kit and try it out first. You will get plenty of help.

[cimo]

.. i would also add that 80% of DIY projects will soon or later stop working for bad soldering joints (even commercial stuff easily get problems after intesive use) , or other failures and you gotta be ready and know how to fix things..

.. and you can t miss the sweet smell of burned rosin...

my 0.0146067 €

simone

[SLP]

the sweet smell of burned rosin...

ohhh yeah.... ;D

[nebula]

Where are you located, goonzy?

[goonzy]

The thing is that I dont have a clue of what kits to get..

I know my needs and I hoped there would be some kind of near ready to kick kit like the x0x0x 303 clone. MB project is wonderful as completely modular but much less accessible to people like me who don't have the equipment and culture to build it.  Even reading the Faqs is hard for me as I don't understand many parts.

The kits I've seen are sold without Pic and there are 3 types of Pic available after so which one do I have to take.. Are there kits for the control surfaces... etc...

What I need is a 1/2 rack  midi unit with 2 sids and simple LCD display and one audio output per sid.

Cheers

[SLP]

The thing is that I dont have a clue of what kits to get..

In this case you just didn't read enough.

-> http://www.ucapps.de/

-> http://wiki.midibox.org/

sorry to say that, but If you want to have it right NOW, this is the wrong place.

you don't have to be a genious. You just have to be able to read.

regards,

matthias

edit: have a look here :

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=9653.msg69940#new

[pay_c]

http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=introduction_to_ucapps.de ;D

[glitched]

It should be said that this is not a step-by-step DIY project kit, like the x0xb0x.  They take you through the build process one section at a time. 

I wonder if it's simply because no one has attempted to document a step-by-step build.  I mean, a real step-by-step build: solder this piece here, solder this piece there, connect these pins on this module to those pins on that, this is how you supply power to the CORE and SID...

I'm expecting my kits this week; maybe I'll take on this monumental task.

I'm a beginner, so it would be a fresh perspective.

-d

[stryd_one]

It should be said that this is not a step-by-step DIY project kit, like the x0xb0x.  They take you through the build process one section at a time. 

I wonder if it's simply because no one has attempted to document a step-by-step build.

You got it in one. The wiki is there, and some people have done build logs, but if you want a real solder-by-numbers kind of document, it is yet to be written....

I'm expecting my kits this week; maybe I'll take on this monumental task.

I'm a beginner, so it would be a fresh perspective.

IMO the beginner's perspective is the best one from which to write the document :) I would really appreciate it if you were able to do this.

[dubka]

That's all very true.

You just need to read and read and read and ask LOTS of annoying questions on here and in chat and you'll get it.

I started this a couple of weeks ago as a total beginner and now (with lots of help from everyone here) I'm still a total beginner but I've nearly finished my box.  :-)

For me, everything "clicked" when I actually had the kits in my hands and started - then I could SEE what I had to do and, suddenly, it didn't seem that bad.

I was thinking of writing a stickie for the top of the forum when I've finished - a sort of "newbies start here" to highlight anything that tripped me up along the way.  "The Idiot's Guide" if you will.  Or "MidiBox SID for Dummies".  ;-)

As great as I think this site is, one or two things are kind of pre-supposed that everyone will understand them.  And, clearly, that isn't the case...

Best of British luck,

Martin

[glitched]

As great as I think this site is, one or two things are kind of pre-supposed that everyone will understand them.  And, clearly, that isn't the case...

Yes, that's what I, and countless newbies, have come up against. 

The Midibox is definitely not a "level 1" beginner's project.  On a scale of 1-5, it's probably a three.  The x0x is maybe a one or two.  "Just follow the schematic" doesn't really help most beginners.

Although the minimal guides on the main site are fine for the more experienced, some may need more help with things that are taken for granted.  Yes, most of the information is in the forum or wiki, but it's not all at one's fingertips.

In fact, I like Wilba's little construction guide:  http://www.midibox.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=wilba_mb_6582_base_pcb_construction_guide&s=psu .

If something like that was done for a CORE/SID/DINX control surface A combination (with more pictures), it would save a lot of people a lot of effort--including the pro's who have to answer newbie questions over and over.

So, after I get all my parts from SmashTV and mouser, I think I may attempt this.  Then, we put it in the wiki and sticky it on the forum, and everyone will be totally satisfied and never ask a beginner question again  ;)

-d

[dubka]

before I read that, I was going to say "get smash's kits if you don't know what you're doing".  It's like paint-by-numbers.  Virtually impossible to make a mistake.  You look at the components and the picture on his site and you make them match.  :-)

Took me a couple of hours to finish the core, sid and dinx4.  That guys blog for the optimized psu is great too.

Stop worrying about it and just start!  If you get stuck, log into chat and ask someone what to do next.

Martin

[stryd_one]

"Just follow the schematic" doesn't really help most beginners.

Unless that beginner goes and learns how to read a schematic - and that is the idea :) Lots of links have been posted, and google wil help too... It all comes down to whether someone is willing to spend some time and effort to learn. I think I can safely say that the idea of midibox is not just to make a synth/controller/etc, but also to learn something new.

Yes, most of the information is in the forum or wiki, but it's not all at one's fingertips.

Again, it comes down to spending some time and effort to learn - and if a person is really nice, they will then document what they have learned, to help others to learn it faster than they could.

If something like that was done for a CORE/SID/DINX control surface A combination (with more pictures), it would save a lot of people a lot of effort--including the pro's who have to answer newbie questions over and over.

That's why a lot of us regulars spend so much time writing wiki articles :) It's good for everyone. But of course we lack the 'newbie perspective" so sometimes our documentation can make assumptions... but that is the beauty of a wiki - when someone finds some information lacking from the document, they can go and find it, and then add it in. :)

So, after I get all my parts from SmashTV and mouser, I think I may attempt this.  Then, we put it in the wiki and sticky it on the forum, and everyone will be totally satisfied and never ask a beginner question again  ;)

Hehehe go man go!!

[cimo]

hi

when i first stepped into the MB world i had the impression that the MB users were somehow divided into 2 groups and that you could spot the 2 groups just counting the number of stars on their profile, pompous names like "guru" "moderator" etc, or "newbie" etc... well it took me some time to find out that the main difference between  MB users is

group A) my level of knowledge is 5 then i ll take a project at level 6 and goddamnit if i have lunch before i see those fancy leds lighting at my will, coffee please

group B) can i have a step by step guide ?

now, of course there is nothing bad with having step by step guides and for sure there is still the need of an improved documentation on uCapps and of course me myself i posted stupid question and help requests (and still do) that were already answered but, goonzy, believe me it s worth the time to learn some soldering tricks, learn by yourself how to  make some changes to main.asm etc. after all MB is an addictive project and you will want more of this stuff and for the modular concept of the MB project it can t be written a step by step guide for every possible MB.

I think it s somehow in the spirit of this project "forcing" people to learn about their own limits and pushing them onward towards new electronic landscapes .... wow ... we may create a new religion ...  ;D

I remember that in the beginning an experienced user was PMing with me for quite a while giving me some first directions and eventually shipping me a preburned PIC that i needed.. lately i did the same with some newbie, in the spanish forum, i think  it could be started a "tutoring" service where people with experience could offer themselves for helping newbies to enter the MB world, that would possibly avoid people posting questions like "what kind of PIC should i order?"

my 0.108101 Danish Kronor

simone

[stryd_one]

group A) my level of knowledge is 5 then i ll take a project at level 6 and goddamnit if i have lunch before i see those fancy leds lighting at my will, coffee please

LMAO

I like your idea of a tutoring service. I think that already happens to some extent... I mean, I knew no C at all, and Wilba and AC have helped me out (as well as a lot of reading and experiments), and I am helping MTE, and MTE has helped others... It reminds me of a martial arts school, where the skills are passed between students during practise, as well as between teacher and student. And TK is Sensei ;D

[cimo]

for example i can open a thread in miscellaneous and put in the title TUTOR OFFER and write on the text if there is anything specific i want to add for example the language i know, specific knowledge and period when i am available or my private mail, so anybody can search for the word TUTOR OFFER and see if anybody is available.

it would be then up to the tutor deciding to publish the mailing or part of it if considered of any help to the others.

simone

[MRE]

I think there are many conflicting concepts here though.  On the one hand, we all wish to help newbies get their feathers wet, on the other hand, we dont want to do the work for them. RTFM comes to mind often ;)

The idea of an 'Idiots guide to Midibox" is a great one. I suggest:

1: Starting with a simple question/answer guide... almost a choose your own adventure, in which the answer to multiple choice questions then point to the appropriate web link. Example:

    a: general electronics skill

        a.1 can you solder?

                (go here to learn)

        a.2 can you read schematic symbols for resistors, capacitors, transistors, and basic ICs?

                (go here)

        a.3 do you have the following tools:  soldering iron, solder,  (etc)

    b: mechanical skill

        b.1 can you operate hand tools such as a drill and saw?

2: Next, a series of questions to help the newbie narrow down their ideal project

          a sub part here might be a series of questions to identify what ins and outs they might want.. ultimately leading to a statement such as:

              "order XX pots, Order YY encoders, order ZZZ leds. Also order BB buttons.    Disclaimer: this final tabulation is only an estimate!"

3: finally a 'build progression' for each of the major projects.  Example:  build the core and one digitial in unit. Get it working. Add a DOUT.. etc... so that the newbie gets results all along the way and sees notes being sent to their software at each major phase.

Build guides for the Core, Ain, and Aout modules would be handy (especially for the full up process on the core, right through uploading software).  But I think MORE usefull might be a "now that you have this circuit board put together, what are all these pins for, and how to I hook a pot up to it?" type guide.

Also, even the best of us get caught up in trouble-shooting.  A basic no frills guide for each module would be extremely helpful.

Finally,ALL of this information needs to be provided on a clean uncluttered page, in a step by step order, with big huge flashing green letters screaming out "newbies, start here! RTFM!!"

[glitched]

That's why a lot of us regulars spend so much time writing wiki articles Smiley It's good for everyone. But of course we lack the 'newbie perspective" so sometimes our documentation can make assumptions... but that is the beauty of a wiki - when someone finds some information lacking from the document, they can go and find it, and then add it in. Smiley

Yes, this is the crux of the issue and this is why a step-by-step guide is necessary.  Or maybe it doesn't even have to be step-by-step.  I like the ideas MRE has posited: first, some prerequisites, like soldering techniques, what tools to use, etc.  This section could be minimal because the information is generic and is well documented. 

The second section would be dedicated to planning and a parts list, as MRE has suggested.  Of course, if this is a SmashTV-focused guide, most of the work is already done, at least on the main boards.  I'll bet most newbies have trouble with the extras: cables, connectors, and options for the control surface.

Yes, the third section would be the build guide: one sub-section for each module. 

The last section would have to do with the control surface, but writing a guide for this would be difficult because of the virtually limitless possibilities.

Ok!  I'll let you know I get my stuff!

[stryd_one]

I'll bet most newbies have trouble with the extras: cables, connectors

I forgot the ribbon cables and IDC connectors last time I ordered.  :-[

;D

Well, plans like this have been discussed many times - if you guys can do it then you are superheroes for sure ;)

[goonzy]

I was thinking of writing a stickie for the top of the forum when I've finished - a sort of "newbies start here" to highlight anything that tripped me up along the way.  "The Idiot's Guide" if you will.  Or "MidiBox SID for Dummies".  ;-)

As great as I think this site is, one or two things are kind of pre-supposed that everyone will understand them.  And, clearly, that isn't the case...

That's a very good idea :-)

[glitched]

I got my parts from SmashTV today!  So, it begins...

Oh, right...still need the parts from Mouser.  Can't do jack without cables!

On another note, the package looks very professional and everything's smaller than I expected!

[Therezin]

That guys blog for the optimized psu is great too.

Is that mine by any chance? www.danielprice.org.uk/synth-diy?

[MRE]

Glitched  re: surface

Yeah, building the control surface might just be the least documented of the entire project, mainly because that is were the most individuality shows in each project.

A newbie CAN build all the modules with only basic soldering skills using SmashTV kits. He/she would not even need to know how to read a schematic... only match the parts to the pictures (ok, perhaps some no brainers, like match the notch on the chip to the notch printed on the board).  Resistor color codes might be the only real head scratcher.

However, you really need to have an idea of how circuits work when you start on the surface panel.

This is the single most benificial area to write a guide for newbies. To most of us its second nature, but to the newbie its a spaghetti nightmare.  Where do the wires go? Which pin on this nob (hey thats a pot yo!) do I solder to? Can I just twist all these little upside down triangle marked wires together?

A good photo set and descriptions of wiring a series of pots, LEDs, Buttons, and encoders would be really helpfull, as well as a simple trouble shooting guide.

I havn't looked recently (and I cant say as I have ever looked FOR IT), but I dont remember EVER seeing such a guide.