The MB6582 Panel Group Buy : FINALLY!!

[Jaicen]

I was with you all the way there Prof, until I got my knobs this morning, now my mild disappointment has increased somewhat. My panel was 'ok' when i got it, the holes all seem ok, some light scratches, but the silkscreening was a little splotchy and uneven. That I could live with, until I put the knobs on, then I was REALLY unhappy. The text is so mis-aligned it practically covers some complete legends.

Now, I don't know about everybody else, but this isn't something I can easily just live with. Obviously I'm not keen on sending it back again, but if enough people are unhappy then I'd certainly consider it, given how much time and money is already invested in the project.

[wicked-E]

Hi Folks

If most of you out there realy can´t live with the result I can maybe help.

I work in a silk-screen-factory and I think I´m able to do a reprint by myself for us when a generally intrest exist.

Don´t know about the costs yet, but seems like 5 - 10 € per Panel + s&h (maybe cheaper, must check it).

I know that´s not the best deal at all and first we have to check what the "original-seller" have to say but if anyone interested let me know an I´ll see what I can do  ;)

[MOONRAKER]

my panels arrived in germany last week

thanxxx altitude

@prof : money for the case is on the way

best regards

ingo

[Wilba]

I don't understand the opinion that some of you have... that just because these panels were cheap, therefore it's OK for them to be a complete stuff-up, everything misaligned to the point of text being covered by the knobs. Would you be OK with the PCB fab deciding to move pads and tracks around on the layout to fix things? Would you be OK with the panel maker changing the size and locations of the holes? How can moving the artwork around to suit their own amateurish printing capabilities be acceptable? If the PCB and panel holes didn't line up properly, you'd all be mad, but when the artwork and panel holes don't line up properly, most of you don't seem to care.

If you spent $400 for a one-off silk-screened panel set and received these, you'd be mad as hell and demanding they be done again. If you spent $4000 on 100 panel sets, you'd still demand they be done again. Why should it make a difference because you only paid $40 for one panel set?

Go have a look at the silk-screen on the MB-6582 PCB... that's the sort of detail and accuracy I expected from silk-screening. These panels were supposed to look better than paint-filled engraved panels from FPE or Schaeffer, not worse.

Altitude, can you please confirm with us what options we have to return the panels for silk-screening?

Will it be done by the same printers, or can we request they be done by someone else? I don't see the point of having correct artwork printed on there if it's still going to be spotty, blotchy, poor detail, bleeding edges etc. I am assuming the fab that made the panels cannot refuse printing them again for free. This seems like the only easy solution for most people, at least people eventually get a cheap panel with the correct artwork on it, only having to spend on postage costs, and is a workable solution when only a minority will want to do something about the panels. While this is being arranged, it would make sense to email everyone in this bulk order directing them to the recent posts in this thread, so they don't start gluing stuff to their panels before knowing they could get them fixed.

[opkod]

ok, I didn't see all the details.... the silkscreen is bad as you can see below:

:(

so what can we do now?

[Goblinz]

I think we need to wait for Altitude to get feedback from the panal guys. They have done a bad job so should offer a refund or a reprint. It would be good though if we could arrange for us to individually send them back rather than posting them all to the same person for return. Maybe we should send them some instructions on how to operate their screen-printer too  ::)

        G

[Goblinz]

Just though this may help to outline the positioning problems once the knobs are attached. This is Narwhal's box (picture linked from one of his posts).  If you scroll to the right and take a look at the envelope section and take a look at the labels. The Release/Cuve one is the only correctly alligned one in that section. Although not obscured by the knob, it may make reading it hard if working from above the box and just doesn't look right!

          G

[opkod]

can you post a bigger picture of your mb6582  :o

[Goblinz]

can you post a bigger picture of your mb6582  :o

Post edited. Just to re-itterate, The above bpicture is Narwhal's sid. I just copied the image from one of his posts so people can get an idea of the positioning errors on the panal.

            G

[Altitude]

They offered me a 25% refund on the cost of the panels so that comes out to about $3.80 ea. I will email them today and see what they have to say about another redo.  Here is a large pic of the problem

[stryd_one]

I thought these were done by the same mob as the x0xb0x, but I never heard of these problems for them... what gives?

Pardon me for being abrupt, but I am short on time, so I'll come straight to the point.

I don't understand the opinion that some of you have... that just because these panels were cheap, therefore it's OK

No, they were cheap because we gave the fab a shitload of business (and probably much more to come from future projects - now unlikely!) and because of the efficiency of scale. They've had the chance to remake them already, now it's refund time... and no, I am not paying to ship them back, unless they'll pay to ship to me. Perhaps they'll remake them at a lower cost to compensate for our wait and hassle.

I think it's only fair to get what I paid for at the agreed price. I will negotiate, I'm not a bastard; but I won't be ripped off in order to compensate for the mistakes of a person who doesn't care less about me.

Edit: 25%? Where's the logic in that?

[Goblinz]

25% is a bit of a joke really. I think we should be pressing for a full refund or a reprint. It may be worth while mentioning how much business they will be missing out on if they don't get it right this time.

              G

[Jaicen]

I'm of the opinion that they should pay for all the panels to be re-shipped back, and a full refund given. They should then re-make the panels so we can check the quality,and maybe then we'll re-order them.

If they're not willing to ship the panels back, they should replace them free of charge. I'm tired of messing about with this, they're obviously not interested in getting things right.

[Altitude]

25% is a bit of a joke really. I think we should be pressing for a full refund or a reprint. It may be worth while mentioning how much business they will be missing out on if they don't get it right this time.

              G

Thats what I am pushing for, a new run.  As far as missing out on business, unfortunately, this is a place that does production level (100K+ parts, hence our pricing) work so little runs like ours hopefully will not take too much to redo but at the same time, it's a bit of a two edged sword being the very little fish but they are clearly in the wrong and hopefully will take care of this to everyones satisfaction. 

[Goblinz]

Yes, good luck in sorting this out.

I think it's a bit pointless more people posting about the same problems with the silk-screen untill we get a reply back from fab. We'll just have to wait and see Nothing much we can do till we get a response.

            G

[sensorium]

If they do a reprint, is there any room for any new buyers to join in on the new run?

[sonicwarrior]

They offered me a 25% refund on the cost of the panels so that comes out to about $3.80 ea.

25% of 40 US $ is 3.8 US $? ??? (This is less than 10%)

I'm afraid that shipping the bad panel back and having a new panel send again will cost much (I already paid 11 US $ for shipping & PayPal fees).

Would have been cheaper if Altitude would have checked a panel before sending them out.

Sorry, but I'm a little pissed off and I would not say that 40 US $ is to cheap to get nice panels of such a small size when I think of the nice and perfectly silkscreened panels which Purusha sells (including 19" cases) in even smaller quantities.

Have a look at the Purusha cases here:

http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19428

[opkod]

may be a good source for panels....  :o

[reboot]

got my panels yesterday  :)

thanks

[Narwhal]

Wow I didn't even know this discussion was going on.

First of all.. Definitely a big [glow=red,2,300]thanks to Altitude[/glow] for arranging this order.  I'm certain its been a ton of work for nothing more than a few thanks.

As you can see from the copied picture above I've finished building mine.  Here is the link to more pictures: http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=9975.0

Honestly though, I didn't even notice the misaligned text at the bottom until I visited this thread.  I've been more focused on getting mine to the point where I could actually make music with it (Sounds on the way).  The misalignment hasn't kept me from being able to use it at all and even now I'm not sure I really care that the text is slightly off.  It IS readable and usable.

The only thing about the panels that has peeved me was that one of the letters, the "L" above the SID selection button, fell off pretty much immediately... almost like it was a rub-on letter (which I may use to repair the letter).  The silk screening has been easily nicked and scratched while working on it, but this letter L was barely attached to the metal to begin with.  (picture linked below)

I had originally planned on clear coating the panel as soon as it arrived, but I never got around to it.  Also I'm not really certain what I can clean it with now that won't screw up the silk screening.

[Altitude]

25% of 40 US $ is 3.8 US $? ??? (This is less than 10%)

I'm afraid that shipping the bad panel back and having a new panel send again will cost much (I already paid 11 US $ for shipping & PayPal fees).

Would have been cheaper if Altitude would have checked a panel before sending them out.

Sorry, but I'm a little pissed off and I would not say that 40 US $ is to cheap to get nice panels of such a small size when I think of the nice and perfectly silkscreened panels which Purusha sells (including 19" cases) in even smaller quantities.

Have a look at the Purusha cases here:

http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19428

The base price of the front panel is 15.50 ea. Thats all the refund will cover.  If you can find black anodized panels for cheaper than that I am all ears, FPE panels in these quantities were 3 times as much as the best quote was 2.5 times more than you have paid.  If you have a problem with that, feel free to send them back and I will happily refund your panel and you can fend for your self. 

As far as Purusha, why dont you have him quote panels in that size with 140+ holes and see if it will be less than the cheapest one he sells (which is 100 euro, $146 as of today)

[stryd_one]

Stay focussed. This isn't a matter of who could do a better job or whether the price was right etc. That can be discussed elsewhere/another time. We have bigger fish to fry.

We paid for a product. Product not received = refund.

Simple.

I think it's entirely unfair to expect someone to pay for return shipping when it's not their fault that they have received a dodgy panel. It's not my fault that it was sent not done right, and I frankly couldn't care less who's fault it is. All I want is either:

A) The agreed upon panel at the agreed upon cost

or

B) No panel at no cost.

Simple.

What's wrong with that?

[B.jamin da Bass]

Ok,

I think we all need to take a deep breath and try to stay focused. I'm sure right about now Altitude is feeling assaulted from all sides and I'm pretty sure that is not anyone's intent here. He did go through a lot of work on everyone's behalf for free and did his very best.

So,

1) Thank you again Altitude for all of your hard work and perseverance!

2) I'm perfectly happy with the panel I received. Really. No, it's not perfect, but I'm happy enough and it's way better than anything I could have done on my own, and let's face it, it was very, very inexpensive.

3) If we can negotiate refunds or re-dos from the manufacturer (with or without shipping charges) for those that are unhappy, that would of course be wonderful, and I'm sure something that Altitude is attempting right now. However, I don't think Altitude should pay himself for anyone's return shipping.

4) There's a certain amount of risk assumed in these group buys (hey, I waited two months for my $400 worth of ALPS faders to arrive from Europe with no guarantees), and that's offset by the potential savings and/ or getting something much better than you could achieve on your own. We're all trying our best to make MIDIBox.org work, but I've gotten the F.U. from printers in my day job involving much, much larger orders ($$$$$$) with the resultant mess (and usually under severe time pressure).

5) Since there are several new arrivals to the MB-6582, if you're really unhappy, I'm sure you could sell your panel to someone here for the price you paid, probably including shipping, if the manufacturer stiffs us.

6) Lastly, I'm not saying this is the best option, but someone could investigate a lexan overlay (used on quite a few commercial and DIY products) that could be group-bought and added to your completed MB-6582 at any time to make it look more pro and or durable.

-Peace,

B'jamin

[bugfight]

1) Thank you again Altitude for all of your hard work and perseverance!

def thanks to alt.

i won't be returning at least one of mine, you can see why when i finish it (hopefully tonight) get up in from underneath, lube it all up, more quads per channel, etc.

6) Lastly, I'm not saying this is the best option, but someone could investigate a lexan overlay (used on quite a few commercial and DIY products) that could be group-bought and added to your completed MB-6582 at any time to make it look more pro and or durable.

forget lexan, mylar is the way...

[DavidBanner]

I got my panels and the extra knobs (which arrived just a few days before the panel)...

Thanks very much alt!

I agree with B.jamin it's 100% not alt's fault, and I really hope he's not feeling any pressure from us, because that would really suck after he's put himself out to do all of us a favour.

My take on the panels - I'm not 100% happy with the result, but I'm not going to cry or worry about it if we can't get a do-over. Worst case senario I have a slightly unperfect front panel, but underneath is a rare-as-rocking-horse-shit uber synth that sounds like nothing else on the planet.

If the panel ppl don't wanna play ball we just gotta chalk it up to experience and not use them again...