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Questions about MB-6582 construction

Davo

By Davo,
in MIDIbox User Projects

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Wilba MIDIbox Guru

Wilba

Posted
Posted

I'm confused... exactly how is it that making nice squelchy filter sounds is "not really essential"? ;D

Because there is so much more you can do with MB-SID... no one even knew you could use feedback to get squelchy sounds until someone posted that link on the forum.

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stryd_one MIDIbox Guru

stryd_one

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Ah, I see.  I would have used a switch instead.

Yup, I'm with you on that one, like

throw 1 = feedback, throw 2 = External In (grounded when not inserted)

Guess if you like his method you could do

throw 1 = grounded, throw 2 = External In (feedback when not inserted)

While I'm talking about the sidechain... you could passive mix the input and the feedback...

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JohnnieBee MIDIbox Newbie

JohnnieBee

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I will definitely be protecting the audio inputs of my SID chips with an opamp buffer. This could very easily be configured as a virtual earth mixer with gain controls for external input and feedback.

I like Stryd One's idea of a FX side chain insert, too ..... a bit of delay and eq in there .......

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Davo MIDIbox Tweaker

Davo

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I will definitely be protecting the audio inputs of my SID chips with an opamp buffer. This could very easily be configured as a virtual earth mixer with gain controls for external input and feedback.

Oh...  That's right.  A transistor protects the output, but not the input.  Exactly what is the problem that requires the transistor?  Shorting the pins kills the SID?

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Twin-X MIDIbox Guru

Twin-X

Posted
Posted

sry but in that link : http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wilba6581/mb-6582/MB-6582_CS_DIN_wiring.pdf there are just 27 inputs declared as something. No encoders or similar can be found by me in there. or do i search somewhere wrong ? and there are just 2 inputs on the mainpcb  used for the din chain, so i cant believe that this is all.

abcman your postings irritates me a bit.

When will the pdf for the din/dout matrices be ready ? There are still several "Holes" in it and it is really horrible to fiddle out the wiring with the pdf file ( because i want to make my own cs )

It will be done when it is done. If you are in a hurry read all sid control step C documents on ucapps.de and the dokuwiki and find it out yourself. Contribute instead of acting lazy.

sry but in that link : http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wilba6581/mb-6582/MB-6582_CS_DIN_wiring.pdf there are just 27 inputs declared as something. No encoders or similar can be found by me in there. or do i search somewhere wrong ? and there are just 2 inputs on the mainpcb  used for the din chain, so i cant believe that this is all.

Start here http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_csC.html

This is DIY not give me a synth on a gold plate.

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abcmann MIDIbox Newbie

abcmann

Posted
Posted

whats going on twin ???? come down! firstly of all i dont want to hear dumbshit like i am lazy or something like that (sry) and 2nd i just wanted to know some estimation when things "could" be ready or if they are ready yet. i am not in a hurry, but i am ready with my mainpcb and just wanted to know if i CAN go on with it yet. on the other hand i dont think wilba tells me that he has uploaded the pdf 's already when he knows that they are not complete yet. I just had the idea wilba COULD have uploaded the wrong file. He knows his complete matrix, if not he couldnt have built a cs pcb for us. ( i dont have one :) ) i shurly dont want to hurry him. i had a question and wanted an answer. nothing more.

http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_sid_csC.html this is the old version. wilbas 6582 just need 8 ics for all din/dout. so a old cs wont help me. The only wan to solve it on my own is to have a look at the control surface pcb. You already looked into? Tried to sort out all wires? surely you could. But that would be senceless work, because wilba already knows. (and i just asked if it is already online or ready or ...... ).

And its more than 27. sry my adobereader hasnt showed them all, but there are definatly some missing.

bye

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Twin-X MIDIbox Guru

Twin-X

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Posted

The only wan to solve it on my own is to have a look at the control surface pcb. You already looked into? Tried to sort out all wires? surely you could. But that would be senceless work, because wilba already knows. (and i just asked if it is already online or ready or ...... ).

Nothing here is senceless and you can look into it also:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wilba6581/mb-6582/MB-6582_CS_PCB.pdf

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wilba6581/mb-6582/MB-6582_CS_PCB_B&W.pdf

I do not have any bad feeling towards you but the postings comes over diffrent to me than you intend to.

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stryd_one MIDIbox Guru

stryd_one

Posted
Posted

abc: this is not aimed just at you, but at everyone and anyone.

This is the second time in less than 24 hours I have seen someone speak rudely to twin-x. I generally try to keep out of other people's arguments (and suggest everyone else do the same) but there is a trend forming here and I intend to put a stop to it right now.

Let's show a bit of respect for twinny here please. Maybe because you're new here you don't realise that these forums and wiki are hosted by twin-X. Its not like he just sits back and watches it, he puts hard work and his personal time into this community and without his work this place would not exist. Even if you do not respect that, at the end of the day you're in his house, so be polite.

IE, NOT:

whats going on twin ???? come down! firstly of all i dont want to hear dumbshit ........

But maybe:

Sorry Twin-X, I have expressed myself poorly. I really didn't mean to come across like that.

Both of these things really say the same thing, but they carry a very different mood.

This is the web, and this is a particular corner of the web where we have many different languages and cultures mixing together, so sometimes it is impossible to avoid being misunderstood. If you are being nice, and someone misunderstands and thinks you are being rude, the solution is not to be rude to them. Suck your ego back in and make friends, don't go playing some game where you must be right and they must be wrong.

I do not wish to hijack this thread or start a big discussion on this matter. Just be nice to twinny. Period.

*that means: don't reply to this post. just do it.*

Now back to our scheduled programming. (get it? programming? ohhhh nevermind) ;)

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Wilba MIDIbox Guru

Wilba

Posted
Posted

The CS wiring diagrams show how the LEDs and switches are connected to the four ports on the bottom left of the base PCB, i.e. JD5, JD6, JD7, JD8

JD8 is the common "current sink" for all the LEDs and switches in the matrix, i.e the "columns" of the matrix. As shown in the CS wiring diagrams, JD6 is connected to horizontal "rows" of the 8x8 mod matrix LEDs, JD7 is connected to the "rows" of all the other CS LEDs, and JD5 is connected to the "rows" of the switch matrix. The firmware will manage sinking one pin of JD8 at a time, which will correspond to 8 "virtual" shift registers in the DIN and DOUT matrix (see where the shift registers are referred to as 16+1, 16+2 etc. in the setup_mb6582.asm file). So to do your own control surface, you can wire up all your switches and LEDs in any way you like, and then change the setup asm file to suit, EXCEPT for the 8x8 mod matrix LEDs, these really should be done exactly as shown.

The JD1, JD2, JD3, JD4 ports connect directly to DIN shift registers and you can connect up to 16 encoders to these pins in any order, and configure it through the setup asm file as per the standard method of connecting encoders to a MIOS based application (these are just DIN modules, not a switch matrix).

sry but in that link : http://members.optusnet.com.au/~wilba6581/mb-6582/MB-6582_CS_DIN_wiring.pdf there are just 27 inputs declared as something. No encoders or similar can be found by me in there. or do i search somewhere wrong ? and there are just 2 inputs on the mainpcb  used for the din chain, so i cant believe that this is all.

I don't see where you get the number 27.

But you are right, I did not define the exact connections between the encoders on the CS PCB and the JD1-JD5 ports because it is not important exactly what order I used, people building their own CS can connect whatever they want to these ports. It was more important (for me and others) to explain how the common LED/switch matrix works, since this is what is different to the original "step C" control surface wiring. Until I update the wiring documents with this information, you can either a) trace it from the CS PCB wiring or b) look at the configuration in the setup_mb6582.asm tables eg.


#if CS_MENU_USE_INCDEC_BUTTONS == 0
	ENC_ENTRY  1,  6,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; menu encoder
#endif

	;; additional CS encoders
	;;        SR  Pin  Mode
	ENC_ENTRY  4,  4,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Osc delay/transpose/assign #1
	ENC_ENTRY  3,  0,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Osc attack/finetune/assign #2
	ENC_ENTRY  3,  4,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Osc decay/portamento/assign #3
	ENC_ENTRY  2,  0,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Osc sustain/arpeggiator/assign #4
	ENC_ENTRY  2,  4,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Osc release/pulsewidth/assign #5

	ENC_ENTRY  1,  0,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; LFO rate
	ENC_ENTRY  1,  4,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; LFO depth

	ENC_ENTRY  4,  2,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Filter CutOff
	ENC_ENTRY  4,  6,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Filter Resonance

	ENC_ENTRY  3,  2,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Env depth/assign #1
	ENC_ENTRY  3,  6,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Env attack/assign #2
	ENC_ENTRY  2,  2,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Env decay/assign #3
	ENC_ENTRY  2,  6,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Env sustain/assign #4
	ENC_ENTRY  1,  2,  MIOS_ENC_MODE_DETENTED2	; Env release/assign #5
[/code]
This configuration was optimal for the traces on the CS PCB, you can change the S/R and pin to whatever suits your own CS design and minimal spaghetti wiring.
I should also add that if people are designing their own CS, then I expect people to understand how the MB-SID "step C" control surface is wired (by default) and then know the base PCB has DINx5 and DOUTx3 modules on it and do what they like with it.
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Wilba MIDIbox Guru

Wilba

Posted
Posted

Good questions!

BC337: I don't know about varieties, I just used whatever I got from the store.

Referring to the Core parts list:


| Transistor BC337                             |     1 | BC 337-16          |  0.06 |   0.06 
[/code]
http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_core_orderlist.txt
I don't even know what the 16, 25, 30 means, is this voltage?
BC547: This is your bog standard transistor. As far as I know, the A,B,C refer to different gains I think. Since these  transistors are only ever used as current sinks, i.e. either sink nothing or 100mA, it doesn't really matter. The ones I used were marked BC547-C. You could probably stick any transistor there and it will work (except a darlington, the collector-emitter voltage is too high and the voltage of logic low seen on the DIN inputs would be close or above the logic low threshold).
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