x0xb0x rare parts

[nebula]

So ... I've sent my spreadsheet column to Ganchan.  Thanks!

I have a question:  I have an old, dead Juno-106 which is a parts machine.  Should I use the BA662 from that?  I think it should work, since the only problem with this Juno was some dead voices.

[xarolium]

I don't think you can use the BA662 because it s in the 80017A and you must take away the coat of resin and it will be very hard

Try to do it if the chip are dead

And i have a question too

i would like to know if somebody found a equivalent for the rotary switch encoder.

because digikey is out of stock

[ganchan]

no, never found a replacement for now.

about the Juno 662 for just 1 or 2 euros why not buying a new one  ;) the ba662a it's the original, right, but you will never ear the difference form a ba6110, just only the high volume.

i've found another source for ba662a (not donberg, they don't have but take the money, crazy). i've some request for that. stay tuned.

hey sasha, have you look at mouser for the audio jack? they have many and some are cool.

[ganchan]

24 2SC945P or 2SC536F

1 2SK30A(0)

1 2SK30A(Y)

1 2SC2291

3 2SC1583

2 AN6562

1 LA4140

1 BA6110

10 2SA733AP

tot: €13.00

shipping split to 10: €3.5

must add: shipping to your country and paypal %

price can change a little because of the change £ $ €.

i'm waiting for an answer from another supplier for BA662A in germany.

[Sasha]

You don`t need both 2SK30A(0) and 2SK30A(Y)! Just one of those.

[ganchan]

yes you're right.

the original 303 had the 2sk30a(y) at q39, more important for the sound (VCO) and the 2sk30a(0) at q28 that it's not so relevant. i've read somewhere in the forum that the 0 type was cheaper at that time, so they had use 2 different type.

i've listed both type of this transistor at the end :)

[asafnetzer]

Gabchan,

Thanks again for working this out, got the email, seems good so far.

Soon enough we shall have the x0xb0x up and running.

[Sasha]

Soon enough we shall have the x0xb0x up and running.

That is pretty ambitious. Getting rare parts seams easier than getting those Mouser and Digikey parts.

[asafnetzer]

That is pretty ambitious. Getting rare parts seams easier than getting those Mouser and Digikey parts.

I'm mostly, at this point, filled with hope (and lots of vodka) so I guess this could cloud my judgment a bit.

But it couldn't hurt, maybe just in a couple of hours when the alcohol kicks in.

[nebula]

I don't think you can use the BA662 because it s in the 80017A and you must take away the coat of resin and it will be very hard

Try to do it if the chip are dead

Thanks... FYI: in addition to the integrated BA662 in the 80017A ICs, the Juno-106 has a single isolated BA662.  I have a voice board which is otherwise stripped of its useful parts, so I will probably give it a try.  :)

[ganchan]

don't know if any one had post but ear the difference about transistors.

http://www.subatomicglue.com/x0xl0g/733k-analysis/index.html

[TheAncientOne]

The real thing to remind oneself is that good production design will try to minimise the effect of component variation.

I have had 3 real 303's in to repair at different times, including the one that an irate girlfriend threw out of a window. On one of these I had to replace nearly all the IC's due to a power supply accident, (and if you look at the original diagram you'll see they had to be really trying on that one).

I was very concerned to produce the 'original' sound, and yet none of my suppliers had the right transistors. This was very early internet days, with few resources and less on-line suppliers. Buying from Japan or the USA was difficult. According to my old copy of "Towers International Transistor Selector", (I still have a copy, and no, it's not for sale), an equivalent to 2SA733 was BC212L. The C variant, BC212LC, could be selected to equally high gains, (Min 350).  Which is what I used, the long time owner and user thought it sounded fine. The basic vanilla 2SA733p is quoted as H_fe from 40 to 600. I vote for buying a big bag of 733's and selecting the high gain ones on test. It may be that with the advent of the tighter graded parts, that the gain spread will be less. Lets look at the numbers. If 25 of us are building x0x's, that is 250 transistors. From Mouser that is about 10 Euro, including VAT. I could buy 250 and run them through the tester one night, and sweep off the top ones into separate bags, for safety I would actually buy something like 500 and give out the rest as spares. Even if we pooled our effort like this, the bottom line is that your 10 transistors, including the selected ones, aren't going to cost you much more than 1 Euro.

I tried a few op-amps for the power supply, which is said to affect the 'warble' on the tune and filter due to is higher output impedance. This  was a bit more difficult. I settled on the makers own equivalent. If you grab the data sheet for Panasonic's LM358, you will see that it states (AN6562) after the part number. For true cloning, you should perhaps get the Panasonic part, but since it was made under license from National, probably using the same masks, or even the same die, I think it worth a looking at LM358. These are cheap. I used them in my Oakley 3030 and they work - though the 3030 is no way a clone.

Given that the main parts are relatively cheap, it may be worth buying them to get things going, and then plugging in the 'real original' part one it's available. Even if I'd had genuine AN6562 available when I built the 3030, I'd still have done the initial tests on the LM358 - because I wouldn't want to risk blowing an expensive part at the first test stage. Think about it - I do this for a living - and I'd still test with cheap bits. My 3030 made sound on first test - but I'd still put 3 LED's in backwards.  There is a saying amongst snooker and pool players that a professional chalks his cue before missing a shot, not after. We all make mistakes. The professional trick is to be aware of this, and to minimise their impact by reducing the risks.

Towers quotes BC184L as a sub for 2SC536. As before the A,B and C variants denote higher gains, BC184LC being the highest. BC184 is should be noted, was the transistor of choice in Neve's discrete component op-amps in the legendary 1073/1084 channel modules. The L suffix just denotes the pinout of the transistor, by the way. BC184 has the pins going EBC, BC184L has the pins going ECB. You find both in Neve modules - they used what was available, and the layout allows the use of either, depending on the way you bend the legs.

Oakley used BC549 and BC559, except in the VCO, where they used (surprise!) BC212L/BC182L.

The BA6110 BA662 question is not that much of a problem to me. most people are going to be running their x0x through effects, at which point the minor differences get lost.

No doubt that the original parts are best, and in some cases they are the only options, but my view is that getting a working x0x, and then tweaking it to perfection as you go, is better than an exhibition piece that is one day going to be a x0x. The music is what is important in the end, and learning to use the bassline is more important than owning it.

I notice nobody has ever even suggested cloning the original power supply, which generated the 12V rail with a little three transistor boost inverter, complete with dinky little transformer. This was done so that the original could be run off batteries. There are even suggestions that some of the patterns effects are due to the way the original processor hardware/software worked.

I've just spent 3 hours on-line chasing more supplier, asking for batch quotes. Will report as soon as I can.

[ganchan]

well, the batch of transistors recived from the supplier are not good.

i mean 2SA733AP, 2SC536F and 2SC945P. they have totally wrong the HFE reference.

so all people that want join TheProf order "can" do it, obiviusly. i've say at start of my order that i want to test them before buy them. sorry for this, it's just happned. i'm waiting for another batch but time it's long.

obiviusly my order it's not close but if you need a complete kit, ask TheProf. :)

than mine it's good for spare  ;)

DSCF8030.JPG

[MTE]

I've done :PPpPP

[ganchan]

2nd source for BA662A dead. no more stock.

[ganchan]

received a batch of 733P with silver face. who knows witch brand are this? Sanyo? NEC? Pippotronic?

3 on 10 are 340-350.

[Sasha]

I know just it isn`t Fairchild.

[ganchan]

2SC945P @ €0.10

2SC945P.JPG

[Goblinz]

Well found. Please put me down for a set if you're getting them in. Glad you've managed to find them, I'm hoping to build two x0xb0xes with the different types of parts so this is very much appreciated.

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