dengel

Part 1 Because of this that I saw in the mb64e.ini file: # Additional 4 Buttons in the menu section - assigned to special functions 17 = FF 08 41 @OnOff # SFB: select bank/group 18 = FF 08 40 @OnOff # SFB: Select Parameter with encoder when hold 19 = FF 08 11 @OnOff # SFB: Encoder in fast mode when hold 20 = FF 08 21 @OnOff # SFB: Encoder in slow mode when hold # Navigation buttons, only available as MIDI triggers when they # have been disabled in main.asm 21 = 90 7C 7F @OnOff 22 = 90 7D 7F @OnOff 23 = 90 7E 7F @OnOff 24 = 90 7F 7F @OnOff Below is my Main.asm code that I am using to hopefully eliminate the LCD menu options, since I need those DINs and This box is specially designed for Ableton - there are no shifted options whatsoever; every knob, button, or encoder has just one function, and really the LCD is just there to look cool and display the title of the knob I am turning at the time. ; DIN pin numbers of menu buttons #if DEFAULT_ENC_DATAWHEEL == 0 #define DEFAULT_DIN_MENU_EXEC 0 ; menu exec button assigned to DIN pin #7 #define DEFAULT_DIN_MENU_RIGHT 0 ; menu right button assigned to DIN pin #6 #define DEFAULT_DIN_MENU_LEFT 0 ; menu left button assigned to DIN pin #5 #define DEFAULT_DIN_MENU_SNAPSHOT 0 ; menu snapshot button assigned to DIN pin #4 #else #define DEFAULT_DIN_MENU_EXEC 0 ; menu exec button assigned to DIN pin #7 #define DEFAULT_DIN_MENU_SNAPSHOT 0 ; menu snapshot button assigned to DIN pin #4 #define DEFAULT_DIN_MENU_RIGHT 0 ; NOT USED - overlayed by datawheel #define DEFAULT_DIN_MENU_LEFT 0 ; NOT USED - overlayed by datawheel #endif As well as setting these to 0: ; Some menus are providing the possibility to use 16 "general purpose" buttons ; for selecting a parameter - e.g. the Bank Select menu allows to directly change the ; Bank with these buttons. So long as you stay in this menu, the normal function of ; these buttons (triggering MIDI or SFB events) is disabled ; Define the two shift registers which are assigned to this function here: ; 0 disables the GP buttons (not recommented!) #define DEFAULT_GP_DIN_SR0 0 ; first GP DIN shift register assigned to SR#2 #define DEFAULT_GP_DIN_SR1 0 ; second GP DIN shift register assigned to SR#3 ; above these buttons LEDs should be mounted to visualize the selected parameter ; (e.g. to visualize the bank which corresponds with the buttons below) ; Define the two shift registers which are assigned to this function here: ; 0 disables the GP LEDs (not recommented!) #define DEFAULT_GP_DOUT_SR0 0 ; first GP DOUT shift register assigned to SR#5 #define DEFAULT_GP_DOUT_SR1 0 ; second GP DOUT shift register assigned to SR#6 As well as setting this option to 0, since I KNOW I will have both pots and encs: ; The morphing function uses addresses within the MIOS address range which are ; reserved for the AIN handler. ; NOTE: morphing is automatically disabled if analog pots/faders are connected #define DEFAULT_MORPH_FUNCTION_ENABLED 0 And Finally these settings for AIN and Mux Support: ; Although MIDIbox64E has been designed for rotary encoders, it can also handle with ; up to 64 pots/faders or up to 8 motorfaders. ; Pots and faders are mapped to the "encoder" entries 64-128. ; Example: if group width is 16, and group 1 is selected, encoders are using ; entry 1-16, and pots are using entry 64-70 ; NOTE: morphing is automatically disabled if analog pots/faders are connected #define DEFAULT_NUMBER_AIN 8 ; ; you could enable the multiplexers here to test this application ; with a MIDIbox64 based hardware ; if 0: no multiplexers (a *must* when MF module connected) ; if 1: use multiplexers #define DEFAULT_ENABLE_AIN_MUX 1 Do the settings above make any sense? PArt 2: The funny thing is that when you DL the complete MB64 Application, I don't see the ini file in there at all, nor do I see any Sysex setup for it either. I think that what I might have to do is: 1.Take my customized MB64E.ini and create a new sysex file using Perl 2. Rename this Sysex file to "main.syx" and replace main.syx in the install folder 3. Convert my custom main.asm into main.hex using MPASM 4. Upload the Application Does that sound right?

Yeah, I am pretty sure that you can have 64 pots AND 64 encoders (and no buttons in that config) with Mb64e. My main problem is that the mb64e example INI file doesn't mention pots at all - it's only in the changelog and main.asm where the pots are mentioned that I have found, and I don't see any examples of how to add pots to a 64e. There's the section in Main.asm for the MB64E that has a section relating to the number of AINs (which I assume is 8 if you have 2 x AINx4's connected) but unlike the MB64 Code, which has a pretty easy to understand pots section, it just says that pots are "mapped to the encoders 64-128". I guess the hardest thing to undestand is via what syntax are they mapped? In mios_tables.inc, There's the MIOS_ENC_PIN_TABLE, which I have configured like so: MIOS_ENC_PIN_TABLE ;; encoders 1-6 ;; SR Pin Mode ENC_ENTRY 5, 0, MIOS_ENC_MODE_NON_DETENTED ; Fx1 Param 1 ENC_ENTRY 5, 2, MIOS_ENC_MODE_NON_DETENTED ; Fx1 Param 2 ENC_ENTRY 5, 4, MIOS_ENC_MODE_NON_DETENTED ; Fx2 Param 1 ENC_ENTRY 5, 6, MIOS_ENC_MODE_NON_DETENTED ; Fx2 Param 2 ENC_ENTRY 6, 0, MIOS_ENC_MODE_NON_DETENTED ; bpm ENC_ENTRY 6, 2, MIOS_ENC_MODE_NON_DETENTED ; jogwheel ENC_EOT.....and so on to the end (I only have 6 encoders And I see that it stops at " ;; encoders 49-64" , so that leaves the rest of the slots open for pots, but for the life of me I can't puzzle out where you define the pots on a 64e.

To keep it on track: Let's assume I only need 1 encoder, and 32 pots. I know the MB64e will support this - but has anyone seen a syntax example for what the INI file looks like?

Coolness. Anyone have any idea what the syntax looks like for the "experimental support" below? experimental support for AIN/MF modules Although MIDIbox64E has been designed for rotary encoders, it can now also handle with up to 64 pots/faders or up to 8 motorfaders. Pots and faders are mapped to the "encoder" entries 64-128. Example: if group width is 16, and group 1 is selected, encoders are using Entry 1-16, and pots are using entry 64-(number of pots) Unfortunately, I can't determine what the syntax is for this. is it the same format as in a mb64 ini file? Or is there something in MIOS that gets input from a pot on encoder channels 64-128 and converts it in some way? IE, do I have to modify lines 64-128 in any way to hook a pot to them, or does MIOS handle that for me and I just use the encoder syntax? Does this below need changed? Is LED Pattern valid anymore? 64 = B0 3F [00-7F:00] ENC_MODE_ABSOLUTE&NORMAL LED_PATTERN_0 "CC # 63" DEC|

I see that - but "No Buttons"? Can I assume that I am correct in stating: A Midibox64E can have up to: 32 Encoders and 64 Buttons using 4 chained DINx4s and 64 Pots using two AINs? (I am ignoring DOUTs here) In my case, I fall just within limits for 2DINx4s : I need 51 Buttons and 6 Encoders, for a total of 63 digital inputs, and 38 Pots. Pretty sure this will work based on this picture here: http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_midibox64e_lc.gif Thatsa Lotta Meatball!

Sorry - at the moment, It is a MB64, although I will be changing that to a 64E (I need some encoders in addition to pots). I have got the AINs and LCD working, so I can see things happen as expected on the LCD.

I am not totally sure of that, but wouldn't that show something on the LCD in that case? I've Tried a few different pins. Is it ok to wire up the button to any random pin? Also, is the Vs pin on each set of din inputs a usable ground for the button?

Well, sort of - whether I hook anything up to the center post of J1 (after SC and Before Vd on J1) I get nothing. It's odd because J1 has no silkscreening for Si except on J2. I even tried hooking up to J2, still no luck. I looked at the scematic and saw that Si needs to be hooked up - but like I said, I hook it up ( I think) and reboot the core and I still get no midi event when I press the button.

Do you mean "use the M64E Application here? It would be great if someone knowledgeable could draw a little diagram (sketch, really) of how the wiring works for a mixed Encoder/Pot environment. I guess that on the M64E, you just use the AINs for Pots and DINs for buttons/encoders, where Encoders take 2 pins and buttons take one? That means a Max of 32 Encoders per core, right? Or, 32 Buttons and 16 Encoders, or (you get the idea)... :)

Well, On the DIN, there is nothing silkscreened to indicate if this pin should be between the SC and Vd pins on Din J1, but In my defense I have tried it both ways , both with Si hooked to this pin and not :(. Also, if you look on the underside of the board, The center pins of Din J1 don't have any traces to them.

It seems that the only way I can get things to work is to post here so I can be humiliated when I figure out that my woes are due to a wire break, so here goes again: I have two beautifully soldered dins that I am hooking to the core. I have jumpered all my AINs to ground at the core using Smash's pc jumper technique, and have the DIn hooked up as follows: Core J9 RC > Din J1 RC Core J9 SC > Din J1 Sc Core J9 Si > Nothing Core J9 VD > Din J1 Vd Core J9 Vs > Din J1 Vs Button is hooked to Din J4 d5, and J4 Vs pins Here's what I have tested: Wire continuity (same wires used in successful AIN test) Button resistance (infinite when open, 1.2 closed) This same button has worked as a USB Keyboard button before) Button voltage (4.91-7) Din IC voltage (4.97) Also, Din J1 RC and SC, if I use the multimeter on those pins, I get 4.96 Volts. Once again, I get a properly behaving Core, but no midi signal when the button is pressed. Thoughts? :-[

So, Encoders on the Midibox 64? I think that I may have made a mistake on my design: I suppose that I need to use the Midibox 64E code, not the Midibox 64 code if I need encoders (I need 6). I thought that encoders could just be assigned a button-note value for up and another value for down, but I guess that isn't the case. So, I need to do a MB64e I guess, with a mix of pots and encoders, or just go ALL encoders: Here's my final requirements for the mix version: 38 Pots, broken down as: 12 EQs 8 effects sends 4 Gains 4 Volumes 1 Xfader 2 effect channel volumes 4 pots for 2 Joysticks on Effects Channels 1 Master Volume 1 Cue Volume 1 BPM setting (software will limit range) 51 Buttons and 6 encoders 1 jogwheel 1 Global Quantization Setting 4 effects params So, seeing that I am no C programmer, is the MB64e capable of the above configuration without a complete MIOS reworking, or do I need to abandon the encoders? If I went all encoders instead, are there enough spaces to do 42 encoders and 51 buttons (I think not, but just wondering)? I guess one other option is to just use buttons for navigation - or get some of those nifty "encoder-like pots" that I mentioned in Parts Archive.

Thanks, Thomas - I'll really appreciate it!

Haven't checked, but probably. I will multimeter that later today and report back. edit, yes - more or less - 4.97v on all 4. Perhaps my ABC wire is bad...Is the multiplex the default option in the stock mb645 app? EDIT 2: Well, that was anti-climatic! Newbie Tip - Don't assume that new wires don't have breaks in them. My "A B C" wires weren't carrying any signal :( I soldered up some new connectors, and I am now golden, it looks like. Both AINs test fine now. Also, on the 4051's - if you put them in backwards, the LCD will not light (probably not the best way to check the placement, but there it is!) Now onto testing the DINs....

OK, there must be a prob with the ain, 'cause I got things working direct to the core. I used the core Vs J9, and just wired the pot to J5a directly and now I get "chorus" and the numbers do what I expect them too. Is it possible to put the multiplexer 4051's in backwards? All my soldering is clean as a whistle, with nice clean volcanos everywhere. The thought that I might have installed the plexers the wrong-way-round just occurred to me. The chip text faces the same way as the "4051" on Smash's 3-d renderings, which is the reference I used when I plugged them in. Smash, is the following on AIN page a slight typo, or did I miss the boat on this entirely? AINX4 J5:A -> CORE J6:RC AINX4 J5:B -> CORE J6:SC AINX4 J5:C -> CORE J6:SI Are those AIN J5's really supposed to be AIN J6's? Because otherwise, I REALLY don't understand what to wire here.... :-[ PS - anyone thinking of NOT putting an LCD in - put one in anyway! One, it is very cool to see stuff move about as you fiddle with the controls, and two it's an invaluable troubleshooting aid.

Don't think that You'll find anyone with prebuilt components - It's a DIY project, and the only way you become self-supporting on the project (and a later resource to other MBers) is to assemble the thing yourself (which is honestly not very hard, and quite satisfying as well). Look in the parts archive for parts suggestions. You'll find that the joysticks from PS2 joypads are quite nice ALPS equipment, and are easy to find and modify for controls.

No, I haven't. Do I have to customize the app at all just for testing, or is it OK to upload it bone-stock as is? EDIT: Reloaded App, and I am trying stuff in MIOS studio. Apparently I can Send messages to the LCD, as the "Clear Screen" message does just that, and I can type stuff into the LCD and send it to the display. I'm pretty sure the core is good. I guess I could test a pot directly on the core, couldn't I? Pot is still nonfunctional, and I have tried 2 different post (a linear slide pot and a linear rotary, both 10K ohm. One other thing - on line 1, the first black box (after the "N") blinks.

OK, I am testing my AIN module, and as far as I can see I have the parts all hooked up OK: J6: core RC > ain A core SC > ain B core SI > ain c Core J5a > ain J5, via ribbon cable and connectors AIN AIN J7 - Power and Ground J1, pin A1: connected to pot center pin J1, Pins A2-A7 connected to ground J2 - J4 All inputs connected to Ground, VD not connected to anything POT power Pins , connected to Vs and Vd. When I start the system, I get the single expected Sysex message from the core, and my LCD displays the copyright, followed by: Line 1 of LCD: [INT] N (8 solid boxes) Line 2 of LCD: Reverb # 1 64(solid box) Checking the voltage on the pot between the ain pin and the power pin, It sweeps between 0 and 4.98 Volts, as expected. If I release the Ground from the inputs, I get the expected flood of messages from the core. The Problem: MidiOX sees no Midi signals coming from the pot at all. I've been testing for the past 4 hours, but haven't found my mistake yet. Any ideas?

Tim, do you mean ground points on the Core board? I don't see anything on the AIN for grounding, except maybe the four lil' through holes coming of Ic2-4... not sure what those do.

Ah, Thanks! I never saw that photo... I'll add it to my "how to ground" document that I'll write about this. Thanks! Time to scrounge up some jumpers from old motherboards, etc.

I'm REALLY new to this, but in the midi speciifications isn't there a "fine" setting for resolution that is higher than 128 levels? It goes up to 14bit resolution, although the MIDI specs page states that "most devices ignore the 'fine' setting" Check out "Volume" here: http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/tech/midispec.htm

This is odd. I don't seem to need the AK leads at all. I wired it up last night, and the moment you apply power to the logic circuit on the LCD (pins 1 and 2), the device lights up. In fact, it cannot be made to NOT light up, it seems.

Check my post in Parts Archive titled "God I love Knobs"!, where you will find a company that makes very nice aluminim knobs for 1/8" shafts.

I've got all my boards built, and my LCD is displaying good stuff (random midi events, at this point. I'm interested in small-scale testing the pots and faders I bought with the two AIN boards I've built. Obviously, unused inputs need to be clamped to ground, but good info on just what this means is hard to find. I assume that this is a "floating ground", and that any large hunk of metal will do? Where do you guys ground your unused inputs? I've read that the ground is the outlying areas on the core PCB - do you just solder your ground wire there and connect the multitudes of other inputsto that ground wire? In a future rev of the boards (Smash!) might it be possible to offer a pc-type jumper that would effectively turn off (or on, whichever is easier) or send to ground all but one input on each board for testing purposes, or at least turn off all but one of the AIN's (say, just J1 is a part of the circuit?)? Grounding 31 pins just to test an AIN board seems like somewhere that some improvement could be made to the system In any case, my issue is the question of grounding these unused inputs. Is there an easier way to do it than connecting 31 wires and soldering them to ground? For instance, could I just ground AIN's J5 a1,a2, and a3 to vss and then I don't have to worry about those inputs on J2-4? I have put all the 4051's in the sockets, btw if that matters. Once I find this out and make a test plan, I'll write up a Wiki article so this question doen't have to be asked again! Don.

Hmm... I suppose so. This isn't really so much an ebay post as it is a parts review that just happens to have a listing where you can get it. So duh, it might be better off in "Parts Archive", not "Parts Questions". Sorry 'bout that folks. Either way - the card's good.