dengel

If you look at my first concept, I was going to arrange for 8 samples per track over 6 channels (and 7 more butons for scene play), for a total of 56 samples. The plan was to tag team this with Traktor, and just mix into a new song in Traktor, change the whole live set, and then mix OUT of Traktor whenever I ran out of tracks in the first set. Unfortunately, this was pretty limiting, but because I didn't have a midi controller, I didn't have a way to see how the scene scroll could quickly get you from item to item. I still think that the discrete grid is better IF Ableton allowed loading multiple live sets and IF there was a quick way to replace scenes with new sets of samples. But since finding the encoder wheel option, grids like 4x100 plus are easy to navigate, and I plan on separating the scenes by color according to my own system (like green for vocal tracks, orange for tech tracks, yellow for ambient, blue for shout-outs and one shot samples, etc.) For the Waveform/Device Toggle, it is a keyboard event sent through Bome via MidiOX/MidiYoke. First, I send a key command to switch focus to the channel, and then a second SHIFT-TAB command to toggle between the Waveform view and the Device Chain. This lets me check on EQ params/wave settings without the mouse, or to select different devices in the chain with fewer mouse clicks.

Yeah, NAS, I suspect it is a driver issue too. I had no problem with older USB 1 external sound cards from SB. I guess that their software expertise is just not up to snuff yet. In any case, It is gone now, and in its place I bought my first ever multimeter, another DIN, and A DOUT board from Tim. Once I know if the "Lights Out" game has rubbery buttons, then I will be buying 2 of them as well so that I can get buttons cheap enough to not break the bank.

New Panel - switched to Aluminum for strength/ durability issues afer some testing. The Lexan would work, but over time I think it would just get too beat up as a mobile controller - If it was staying in a studio, perhaps it would be OK, but out in the world I worry. One thing that the crappy BCD200 taught me was a new way to use Ableton; Previously, I had not used it with a MIDI controller, so I hadn't yet figured out the encoder jog for selecting scenes. This made a lot of my buttons unneeded, and I was able to add some controls I had to leave out of the first version. So, this new design reflects that. I also went back to 4 channels, because with the option of the rotary selection My sets aren't limited by a button grid anymore. Also added is a space for my laptop to mount in. The buttons on each channel are for: cue, waveform/Device view toggle, loop in, loop length, Quantization value nudge fwd/back, x fader assign, and of course start stop. I've eliminated the effects sends on the sends themselves, and instead I am using two encoders, to be assigned to whatever needed in the sends, and 4 buttons, also for params (or potentially 2 params and 2 xfader assigns). There's also encoders for BPM, and of course the jog wheel. finally, there's a headphone cue volume and master vol pots. Because I used 63 of 64 DINs for this, I had to make the global quantization value selector a pot instead of an encoder. Can anyone here export Shaffer Panels as DXF or something similar? I Have a line on getting this cut locally, but I'd need to get him a CAD version of this.

There are actually a few on ebay. They can be bought direct from Tiger, albeit a slightly different formfactor - but the buttons look the same. They are $15bux. As soon as my paypal has some cash, I am buying. There's one older model called the Lights Out Deluxe that is a 36 button grid. You could probably combine it to make MIOS create a monome type controller just by figuring out the connections to the matrix. EDIT: Apparently, Hackaday has a mention of doing just that, here: http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000507073641/ EDIT ALSO: I just realized you were referring possibly to the DJ in a box toy, Weasel.

Are they rubbery or hard plastic?

For those who are interested, here's a dimensional analysis of the Lights Out buttons, made by cobbling together some pics from the product manual and then basing things off the standardized size of a AA battery: They are about fingertip sized. Now, if I could just get the thickness of the buttons... If I can find a side view, I can probably guesstimate. based on the placement of the start buttons etc, we can tell that it is probably at least 20mm thick for the whole unit. If the buttons themselves are at least 6mm high, then they'd be useable.

Hahahhahaah! I am going insane here - I HAVE to find a source for backlit keypad - and I think that I finally might have done it, in the form of this: http://www.haar.clara.co.uk/Lights/loutmain.html http://www.hasbro.com/tiger/default.cfm?page=browse&product_id=13087 I think finding toys to rip apart might be a way to get what we need, while taking advantage of the economies of scale afforded by big companies. So, my friends, I present a challenge: Seek out toys that have buttons and switches that might be scavenged for parts, and post links here! This might be one of the cheapest routes to finding switches available. Fly, Midiboxers, Fly!!!

Starting a new thread about the keypad, because of this thing: http://www.haar.clara.co.uk/Lights/loutmain.html http://www.hasbro.com/tiger/default.cfm?page=browse&product_id=13087

Refund obtained, just waiting for the money to get back on the card so I can order 2 douts and 1 more din for my order from Smash...

If you DO want to mount the led's centrally, you could use 2 tact switches per button, ganged one on each side, to even the pressure. The button would have to be fairly large, though, at least 12-14 mm.

not sure that would work - might be a bit grabby.

NOt sure there- but I don't think so. - I mean, as long as they are fed from 1 power supply, then it should be possible. I was specifically referring though to people doing the "always on" type wiring, possible from a power supply seperate from the core.

Here's an idea that I am sure is well known to guys who've done this for awhile, but something that you could also consider - if you have room for it, could you wire up a pot to control the voltage to the LED's? In this way, you get the ability to turn the brightness to whatever is required - from full power to low-level. If I'm wrong on this, someone smart please correct me. Don.

Note - I too pulled apart a PS2 joypad - The joysticks are made by ALPS, btw. Note about removing the spring: on the bottom of the stick, you'll see 4 tny crimp feet. pull them back a tad, and remove the bottom white thing from the stick - that is the "spring", not the actual spring inside the stick. Also, the hole diameter on the joypad is 22 mm. You'll need to round off (or better, bevel) the hole on your panel so that there isn't a sharp edge to cut the plastic stick.

Yeah, I am just concerned about adding complexity where it isn't needed, and saving money where I can. Since I am having my panel CNC cut, I don't want to include a cutout for it is I will only use it during the initial configuration. Perhaps I will mount it in a project box, and just plug it in when necessary?

I was wondering if that was was what you were thinking of doing. My solution is to put a mount for my laptop directly in the unit itself, so that the laptop's display sticks out of the box. This keeps a panel right in front of me, like a consumer DAW with a REALLY good LCD. I have a queation for everyone, sort of unrelated - if you have a monitor, is there anything that you can do with the LCD display that you cannot do from the computer? I am not going to be shifting any controls on the fly, or anything. But will an LCD make initial setup a lot easier, or can I monitor a lot through software like midiOX?

Could you elaborate on what the ITX boards would do for you? I think your thoughts are about 2 levels above mine; you seem to have some very creative ideas.

You could map it to more than one event if you used Bome's midi translator (or something else that could make the one switch send multiple commmands in sequence). For my contribution here, you could send a command to switch the focus to a particular channel (a column in track view), so you could see the waveform details. You could also have it light an LED that tells you that a channel is playing something - and have another event linked to the "stop" button to let you know that it is no longer playing (particularly, if you have backlit buttons you could change the play button from amber to green, back to amber on stop events). This is something I am considering on my controller.

Rowan - think there's a way to hack it to make a clip button blink when the track has a certain amount of time left? Now THAT would be useful!

Raining on my own parade, ??? Why in my 2 weeks of googling did I not find these guys sooner? Thanks to the great Wise for finding this manu: http://www.rjselectronics.com/cms/html/modules.php?set_albumName=album16&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=1 60 different varieties of lighted pushbuttons, most available as either PCB OR panel mount (My choice for simplicity of install and maintenance). This whole thread might now be moot. I sent off a price request just now. EDIT: Got the prices back. The Owner of RJS is very friendly - but those EH switches are ridiculously priced; I know they are high quality but they are $25.00 US EACH. For my controller, this would equate to over $1000 bucks works of buttons. They have a similar series called the LP, which is a SPST that costs about 7.50 each, or a mere $307.00 :(. Unfortunately, yellow, red, and green are the only available lamps. I guess by hand-tinting the caps you could make other colors, as long as you had 2 primaries like some yellows and some reds. But you could never make blue - you'd have the choice of yellow-orange through violet.

Wise, I think I love you. Do you know how many times I have searched google for lighted pushbuttons?I kept finding those huge "Car Starter" kind. This website is amazing in the choices available. Thanks again. Edit: Seriously, this company makes the best switches IN THE WORLD, man - I love the CH series - easy but attractive panel mount, internal resistors - They even have a "guard top" attachment to prevent inadvertent presses (important for me, as I don't want to accidentally hit the "scene play" button on my unit - I want that to be a very deliberate action. Edit 2: And now I know WHY I love them.... $25 a piece! Even the LP series is $7.50 usd... :(

Thanks for the info. I'm redesigning the buttons now; I think that with what Smash brought up micro-tacts are the way to go. For the LED's, I think that SMD's, like these: http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=led.smd will be required rather than dome-type; the domes are all too high, and the top of the button needs to be a bit thick for the dispersal to work well. I'm also increasing the angle of the inner post, so that it slopes from the outer edge a bit, which will prevent any side-side movement of the center post.

Wisefire, funny you should menton the clicking feel of the tact switches! I actually came across a surface-mount micro tact switch at EPO yesterday that has a smooth travel with a very light "resistance" halfway through its 1mm of travel...and no click. The top is made of rubber. I'll go buy one today and get a picture. And Smash - no worries at all! Getting great feedback from experienced people is why we're all here. Thanks for the tip. The good thing is that the easy mounting solution would still work, even if we used a regular switch instead of traces. I'll draw a diagram this morning. EDIT: Smash, there's actually CArbon Paint? Hell, that would be easy to do. How do KB manus get the high key lifecycles they do, most of which use carbon contacts and traces?

It would feel alot like the sitch on a djm 600's effects buton, or a pc keyboard w/ half the travel, or a ps2 controller - you probably use this sort of button more than any other, actually.

Nope. They are simply keypads - they could either work by bridging a gap between two traces (like in a ps2 controller's start and select buttons as an example) or to push a microswitch.