MRE

p.s. I (as would just about everyone here) NOT recomend you attempting a midibox FIRST.. Try a few kits first. Not much on the pocket book, and you wont get all sad when it doesn't work. Not everyone's midibox build goes up without a hitch.. even some old hands at the solder game have issues once in a while. I am in no way saying that a MB core is all that difficult, but certainly not for your solder cherry.

If you are truely green in electronics, you should consider buying a FEW cheap electronics kits and building them first. This will let you get used to soldering, working with wires, identifying parts and figuring their values.. etc. At the very least you will need tools such as a 12 - 15 watt soldering iron (Weller makes good cheap ones), a soldering iron stand, solder, wire strippers, and small diaginal cutters. A web search has shown several good looking books for electronics beginners. I havn't found much on video though. Perhaps a local college course? or even better, look for HAM radio or Robotics groups in your area, and work with someone there.

right so.. all that really matters is: so what's the kit price? ;)

somewhat off subject, but I am currently in the process of hacking an old stripped down laptop directly into a keystation. why make cases?!?! heh

Another idea I had had was a metal briefcase style crash case that opens flat. You can just put in a front panel on each side of the case with all your parts. It would require a ribbon cable spanning the hinge though.

hehe.. yeah.. I actually use loads of those boxes anyway for all my electronics parts and whatnot.. There are two or three sizes... and I was thinking along the lines of this: With 4 rows of bin space.. its like the ruler is already put down for you. :) bottom 'row' would be led and button for a 16 step sequencer.. middle two rows would be pots for note stuffies.. and the top row would be official midibox controls (lcd, menu buttons etc). BTW - I am thinking that you would flip it over.. and what was the bottom is now the top surface. It looks like several square 'logs' stacked on each other. The cover would be the bottom.

Heh.. along similar lines, http://www.planomolding.com/content/index.cfm?siteaction=product&lineid=2&groupid=12&sectionid=39&partid=56 Only because they are like.. 2 or 3 dollars at a hardware store, and the inner ribs are easy to cut where you need to stick a board.. and leave them otherwise.. that still gives good stability. good for prototyping a box out and having a 'real' case.. before cutting on a metal box.

That would be a lot easier though wouldn't it? Placing a piece or removing it serves as the mute function or whatever.. Man.. a glass set with multicolor LEDs would just be sweet looking..

Some may have patterns on the bottom that the board somehow recognizes, but for the most part, its done by tracking. Example: The machine knows that at the start of the game, that the corners are Rooks. By doing a scan (much like the button scan for MB) It knows that the pieces are there. Now, on your turn, if during a scan it detects that the piece has been picked up (was there, now its gone), It is assuming the piece is still a Rook. So, when you place it down again, it detects so on the following board scan. Again, it assumes that you put down the Rook. You could just as easilly put down a pawn and it would assume that piece is the Rook. If I remember right, most of those machines place small button magnets in the base of the pieces, and each square has a small coil under it acting as a hall effect sensor, and they are scanned as a matrix. The new ones (pretty plastic/glass) may be using infrared/optical stuff but its all the same. The REALLY cool ones used an X/Y sled with an electromagnet to move its own pieces around, and drag yours off the board when it takes your pieces. Some even moved your piece back rather than just an anoying buzz when you made an invalid move.

yeah.. I was attempting to wrap my head around that.. Sort of a chess battle, but you cant really play by standard rules. This excedes the capabilities of midibox without some added hardware and software but here was my idea: 1:Each 'player' assigns their special pieces (knight, rook, king, queen, bishop) individual samples. 2:pawns are assigned the basics of the song.. percussion.. and may be changed by software in order to keep the song going. So, software has final say so as to what that piece will represent based on the song. 3:players take turns placing pieces. Two boards side by side would be 8 patterns by 16 notes right? The hard part is figuring out how to identify each piece. One way to pull it off would be to place an led on the bottom of each piece that has a unique frequency pulse. The board gets scanned and determines the piece and location by the pulse train.

hmm this now has me thinking about: Simon Says - only 4 color buttons, but there was an advanced version made by someone else that had 8 Touch Screen Sudoku puzzle games - There are some nice blue backlight ones that are full graphic LCD screens with touch grids! Electronic Chess - would be an interesting visual live system of placing pieces (notes) on the board.. 8 X 8 so two together would be 8 X 16

Wow, that thing looks pretty sick! Im guessing they are not working on a pure MIDI interface, and have written totally custom driver interfaces for the software choices. I doubt this is all done on one or two processors as like Midibox. If you look at it from a system perspective, then each module that he pulled out would have its own built in processor. A few power connections to the module and an opto-isolated communications interface on each module would hitch it to the system. Each module having a module type identifier and unique id. Then the slot it is dropped into would attach a 'location' ID. All of this gets metraplexed into a main processor, which would then talk to the PC via a custom driver/application. The passing back and forth of such a huge range of parameters that quickly would require a really fast communication system. Much more so than Midi is capable of? Sure this is possible in a hobby perspective, if you could throw enough money at it, and most importantly keep it modular. I dont know a whole lot about the MIDI protocol. I just wonder if it would be worth all the time and effort figuring out a way to squeze all that data down a small pipe, when you could easilly (in comparison) create a new custom protocol?

afterall.. this IS the design concepts thread.. so.. how would YOU do it, and why?

Yes, I have been talking with her about what features she is looking for and what she can do without.. We are consulting back and forth and refining things.. I was just looking for another perspective. I am not a DJ, so I need to be educated on my advice to her :) Much of it IS obvious... I guess I need to look more into what can and cannot be controlled by midi with the software. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough: I am to understand that, for instance, transport controls do not necessarily need to be duplicated. So, how (in a midi controller on Tractor) does one switch the controls to another deck. Is that simply a cycle button, or a button for each deck? How is it indicated which is active? An LED for each deck? In other words: Are there some not so obvious things? I have not used the software, and have only watched her use it. We plan on getting together and taking a lot of notes. Of particular interest are things like: 1: multi purpose buttons. Is that possible? For instance - What function does/can the cue button take on dependent on the state of that deck? Also the previously mentioned transport controls.. how does that cycle through the decks? 2: Choosing pots vs encoders. Obviously, any time an knob type control needs to be 'resetable' or needs an undetermined number of revolutions, then it should be an encoder. (EQ makes sense as a pot, track seek makes sense as an encoder.. Im not THAT clueless ;) An example might be a pitch bender. Now, certainly the choice between simple pitch up/down buttons or a wheel/fader is her choice.. but can it take both? Bump buttons AND pot. Would it make sense that an encoder would be an option? Certainly it will be set up the way she will use it best, but It helps to know what CAN and what CANT be done... or what would be 'overkill.' What I am asking is what have you found to make sense to you? What have you tried that didnt work out right, and why? Right from the start, this project is NOT to be a clone of anything on the shelf. We both really like the radically different styling that I have seen with Midibox builders.. I simply want to do all the 'thinking' before building.. so as to avoid putting something on there that just wont work right. Likewise, I ABSOLUTELY dont want to forget to put something in that should be there. Im not a DJ ;)

I am about to make a midi controller for a friend to use with Tracktor. She uses a lot of the effects and loop functions, and I would imagine that when she gets T3 she will use all 4 decks. My question is: Can I get some advice on Tracktor Functions and what is considered essential, and what type of function it is? Example: AB Crossfader - linear pot A volume - linear pot B volume - linear pot A: Cue - button play - button set - button Track forward - button track back - button fast forward - button rewinde - button Loop - button (what other functions need to be associated with loop)?) Pitch up - button pitch down - button Track seek/scratch pad - encoder How does transport functions work (one set for all.. so how do you 'switch decks')

mechanically they are the same as any others, so I would guess that they are just as tough.. Its only a matter of no color choices. They got them in huge bulks and can thus make the price low, dont think it has anything to do with quality really. A rotory encoder could be turned on its side, and rather large.. placed on the side of the box and perhaps made from a 4 or 5 inch wheel, so as to be rolled with the foot.

they dont handle beer much either. hah!

I have a lot of experiance with arcade buttons. The best ones to go for are the classic arcade ones. 1 inch round colored plastic. The clear illuminated buttons have a tendency to crack quickly. As for price, you are SOL there, as they are not really cheap. Sometimes you can get bulk buttons but for the most part, they are a few bucks a piece. At a hundred buttons, thats going to get expensive FAST. I dont really see why you would need one hundred buttons on a foot controller, so I am assuming you ment 10? ;) Anyway, these are the toughest buttons I have worked with: http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/5896xxl.htm Happs full selection of buttons is here: http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/pushbuttons.htm Like I said, the clear caps on the illuminated ones (some of them are colored) tend to crack.. but if you are nice to them they should last a while. Obviously, the large dome ones are the most susceptable to cracking.

Wowo, I am at a loss then. Yes I can confirm that I have smoked a PIC and it cooked eggs... but can also confirm that I smoked a PIC and it was cool to the touch while 'dead but working' (well.. partially dead. some ports worked, some didnt, and code was unstable). Under working circumstances, it is to be expected that the 7805 will get hot. Hot enough to hurt without a heat sink mounted when runing 9 volts 1 amp in. It is NOT customary for the PIC to get hot! The 7805 is a very 'lossy' VR.. it burns off anything over 5 volts (plus some for its own circuitry) as heat. So, the closer you get your input supply to ... say.. 6 volts (I dont know the exact lower threshold off the top of my head) the better. I.e. less heat. But that in no way relates to the PIC. Dont forget 1.4 volts drop from the Diodes.. so you need to be about 7.5 volts for ideal supply without a lot of excess heat. The only reason for the pic to be drawing enough current to heat up noticably is when it is over driving its outputs. With no other boards attached to the core, and you ARE using a printed circuit board, and you DID double check your solder work.. There is very little in the core module circuit design that could be causing a problem like this. The only other possibility is constant resets.. You mentined polarized parts.. In fact, as for polarized parts, only the supply circuit has any. The Diodes forming the bridge and the filter caps. If your diodes were wrong, you would get no Vout, or a very unstable Vout. If your caps were wrong you would let the smoke out of them soon enough. In fact both diodes and caps are hard to get wrong anyway as they have markings to keep you straight. There is litterally nothing else on the core design that would cause this. I might suggest you take a good hard look at your power circuit. If you are supplying 9 Volts DC to the core, and you get 5 volts out, then your bride diodes are fine. Thats not to say that one of them isnt reversed, since in DC mode, a bridge only has two diodes 'on' at a time. So, its possible one is backwards, but not being used anyway, so it doesnt matter. If you get this far with DC supply, I have no other ideas. :( However, if you are using 9 volts AC to supply the core, AND one diode is backwards, you are only getting half of the power cycles. This results in the caps and voltage regulator working double hard to keep a 5 volt stable output. Likely it wont be able to accomplish that, and thus would supply a lot of ripple to the PIC. This in turn would cause the PIC to brown out a lot. Constant repetative reset cycles would cause crazy stuff on the LCD, as well as a lot of heat in PIC. That is the ONLY logical explanation I can come up with without actually looking at your board. I CAN confirm that constant resets will heat up a PIC fast. I was working on a project with a PIC that drove several high current motors (H bridge) all of a single large battery. The PIC was also supplied from the same battery. When more than two motors were on, the 7805 started browning out, causing the PIC to brown out and reset. It was controlled by the serial port and we'd get crazy data. It all spiraled out of control and the only way to recover was to disconnect all the motors, let the PIC come back up, and issue the command to turn them all off. Eventually this was solved by a seperate source for the PIC.. but yeah it got pretty damn hot.

hey.. theres only so many letters in the alphabet right?! heh.. Personally, I like V.. E was always a little weird, and I learned to accept it long enough to get a piece of paper that says I know what I am doing.. and promptly went back to V ;)

ohh right and to clarify.. "If we expend one joule of work (energy) in the process of moving one coulomb (6.25x10^18 electrons) of charge from one point to another, than the two points have a difference of potential of one volt." So, Electromotive force IS energy. Even if they werent the same, we'd steal your letters anyway ;)

Electronics people take all your physics stuff and simplifies it.. DISTILLS it if you must.. to stuff that makes sense to us. ;) E=Electromotive force. The most proper form of the equation, is in fact E=IR.. which, from phsyics, makes sense. Electromotive FORCE (work) must equal Current times Resistance. E is a form of work, and can be measured in Joules or Coulombs (the electron version of work, or joules). However, V makes sense, as VOLTS is the unit of measurement for Electromotive force. So.. E is more right than anyone! ;) I= induction by the way. Force applied to a resistance INDUCES current.

Judging by the fact that you said everything was tested with the PIC out, I would say that is your culprit. By putting 12 volts on j2, you put 12 right into the pic and the optoisolator (IC2). These are the only components that are not 12 volt tollerant. Also, you mentioned blocks on your lcd.. so.. you DID manage to get the pic to run far enough to initiallize the lcd. so. it sort of runs. random appearing data tells you that the pic is not running RELIABLY. Normally with such indications you should check that the OSC is getting a good clock signal, and that the pic is not 'browning out.' Brown out would be caused by sag in the 5 volt regulator.. which is usually only an issue with batteries. Brown out is very apparant on an LCD as.. you guessed it: Random charactor data. It sounds like something is seriously damaged inside the PIC, and it is just managing to limp along. You didnt mention anything other than the LCD connected, so I am assuming that is the case. If not, then go over your I/O boards just to make sure they are in good shape. While 74xx series chips are somewhat tollerant of 12 volts, they dont exactly like it (and certainly wont operate right at 12 volts). They could be damaged as well. Finally.. you did the swaptronics method of troubleshooting. The only thing you carried over from one board revision to the other is the pic. So.. at this point.. it is about 98% obvious that the problem is the chip. ;)

wow. Well.. they do have GREAT development boards. Although software support is supremely lacking. For instance, a couple years ago, they put out a 68hc11 dev board. Really fantastic piece of hardware. They support it with a dos only loader. WTF?! when I say DOS only, I mean, the software has no means of getting control of the serial port from a command window. Seriously.. what is that crap?! Im not going to build a dos or win 98 machine just for this one board. After calling them a few times, they have absolutely NO recomendations for an alternate loader. End result is I havn't done much with this board yet.

"Many MIDI drivers can simply be user-side I/O Kit clients (probably for serial, USB, Firewire). PCI card drivers will need their MIDI drivers to communicate with a separate Kernel extension." After a brief look, I dont really see mention of Midi over Ethernet. Again, I don't really see the point anyway. If you had several laptops hooked together running virtual synths.. maby that would make sense.