madox

I just got my used Alesis M1 active Mk2's home tonight, and am listening to Union Jack There Will Be No Armageddon on them as I type. Have to say, I'm pretty pleased with them. I don't think they are amazing, but they are the best speakers I have owned. I listened to a few tracks from an old Rising High Records album on them first, and was really underwhelmed with the sound. However, I new this was not a very well produced album. Listening to the more recent Platypus album next to it, really does show a huge difference in fidelity. So, I suspect the monitors are providing more useful feedback than I was getting from all my previous electro-accustic transducers. My Sony headphones for example, will also reveal that the Rising High album is not well produced, but it still sounds much more sonically exciting on the cans. The amps on the M1's have plenty of power for my monitoring needs. I definitely can't see myself needing to go above 0.3 of the maximum gain. Now, I'll have to see when I can get around to giving the speakers an overhaul. Funds permitting, I will order new tweeters. I will also sort out an issue with heat management in this design, and most likely be swapping some old caps too. I've got the speakers sitting on foam isolation plates on my rather boomy desk at the moment, so I will be looking into some stands for these soon, too.

Interesting. Pretty quirky stuff. Not my cup o' tea. I'm pretty happy to be moving forward with computing, rather than back. I'm sure that would be a good learning experience though.

Thanks for the explanation. I've not had to look at it from that perspective before. Cheers

Hey, I {heart icon} your oberheim matrix 12 too, damn it! I would absolutely love an M12, or even just a chance to play with one. I have mucked around on an OB-8 for a little while, and really enjoyed it. M12's are really not cheap though. Like you said, I think the M1000 can be really good value for money. I'm assuming that modern DAW's can handle it's sysex control pretty seemlessly now. Never used one like this though. I would of course want to edit it in real time. M6R's sometimes go for a steal too.

Hi, Thanks for the post. I hadn't thought of using RMS for audio monitoring. I usually just want to trim my levels by peak. I can see some use in monitoring RMS as well, just for an indication of power in the mix. Is there any other reason for this? Cheers

Oh well, that's me. Please accept my apologies. Didn't mean to ruin the fun.

Hm, I like the sound of the TBS.

Did this thread get moved? The timing of this on April 1st just seems a bit sus. @Futureman: you have seen this chips, and heard them play? Oh well, if they are real, I would love to have some.

Well, not quite useless. The movable panels idea is what I was thinking of for my case. It makes it easier to take my treatment elsewhere if I have to move house in future. Making the panels well, would take a bit of effort though. I think they would have to be pretty robust and stable, so as not to introduce problems. Apart from the panels, I am not too sure what I will do. I think I may need to do some refurbishment of the room first. This would involve securing the panels and floors, etc. I may install floor carpets as well. I suspect I will have rattling window fittings to deal with, too. I know Audio Technology. I will keep an eye out for a public library which has the mag, with back issues. By the way, do you remember when the articles were published? Cheers, madox

Hey, cute toy. The demo of the display looks good too (despite the poor video recording).

Wow! Looks damned impressive. I know what you mean about the sound of the analogue desk. That is an excellent buy, for what you paid.

So, where are you based? For that matter, which opto is it? Also, what other electronics stores are near you? RS will almost certainly have something you could use, but they can be expensive, particularly if you have to pay for shipping (at least, RS Australia is like that). If you do need to substitute the opto for an alternative device, the data sheets are your main source of information. These can be a bit cryptic and overwhelming at first, but just take your time to look up all the terms online, and you should be able to get through most of the key points. Wikipedia also has decent inrtoductory information describing electronic device types, as a starting point. If you are not too sure about any of it, I recommend swapping for the same device - it may not be that part which is at fault, and you don't want to introduce additional unkowns when trouble shooting. It should be possible to test the function of the opto with a DC test signal. I don't normally do this, but it should be possible to run a current into the opto's input, and test for a change at the output with your multimeter set to DC volts. It would probably be something like a 0V to +5V signal at the output.

Hey, nice one. A good big desk is such a handy thing. €75 + Atari is damn good price too. Hope it's reliable for you. Does it have a full meter bridge? I've always wanted one of those. I don't often have headroom issues (apart from the odd analogue filter sweep), but it just looks so dammed impressive to watch your tracks playing back to you. I'm looking for PC audio interfaces with stacks of I/O, to use in place of a bigger mixer. Ideally, I'd like to have all synth outputs ready to use at any time. I think doing this through a PC interface should make the audio sends a bit more flexible than with a budget mixer. At least with the GM5 MIDI interface, I can finally control almost everything (just a few non MIDI devices in the bunch), but still would like to not have to replug my audio leads every time I try a different arrangement. Anyway, well done spotting that one!

This thread follows on from here. Yeah, I had considered the loading issue. My plan was to fill with a foam, rather than sand. I think sand would probably be acocustically very dead, but the weight would quite likely be an issue for me. I was thinking maybe some medium density foam, and some lightweight quilting, or maybe just the quilting. I think the pedestal itself would probably have sufficient mass, but I wouldn't want to create any resonance in the column of air within the interior cavity. I will probably have to do some room treatment as well, but at this stage I really don't have a solution for that. Have to wait and see what kind of room I can get into, and how much work I will be able to do on it. Cheers

I think sound and music are great hobbies. My oldest brother used to bring lots of old synths home from his band. I currently have his Korg Poly6 and Realistic MiniMoog. I used to sit down for days on end, just messing with sounds. Hmm, I probably spent more time playing with music then than I do now. Oh well. Work to be done...

Hey, I was drooling over that auction just last night. One of these big old analogue beasts is very high on my want list. They don't often come up for sale in Aus, and the cost, oh the cost. Love Oberheim sounds though. I'm keeping an eye out for a cheap Matrix 1000. Sometimes they go for pretty reasonable prices.

So, which Sennheiser cans are you using? I am also wanting to buy some decent headphones myself. I have a pair of cheapy Sony MDR-XD100's, which I mostly bought for using at work. I've not yet been able to settle on some decent, and affordable headphones for studio work. I was considering spending about $AU200, but haven't done my listening tests yet. Has anyone here done much work on room accoustics? I've heard some people say that certain speakers are more susceptible to room issues than others. Not sure if that's true, unless the room emphasises an existing problem. I had thought that rear ported/radiated speakers would be a little more sensative to placement issues, and may end up needing a larger room in order to provide sufficient space at the rear. I'm thinking of building my own monitor stands for the M1's. I'm considering either buying a formstone pedestal from a garden/hardware shop, or making a pedstal using concrete pipe, backfilled, and topped with a slab of some kind. The pre-made type would have the advantage of being more decorative, and also a quick an easy fix, but finding the right quality for a low price is something else. They are often not made with a really flat base for standing on an indoor floor. I don't fancy buying something made for indoors, as I expect there would be the usual decorator tax.

Cool. Cheers dude. ;)

Hi Enth, Seems to be a dead link.

Hmm, I wish I had ANY of my tracks recorded. Lost them all. I really enjoyed elements of my first track. It was called Axiom, made with Musix-X 2.0 on an Amiga 3000. I made it with a good friend, one Roland Juno 106, a Yamaha TG-300 GM box (mostly pretty crap, but some conventional sounds were OK, and could really mess with the feedback settings for some carzyness), and a Yamaha DJ mixer with analogue delay (very lush, but extremely noisey). It was really spacey big bass minimal electro. I used some Amiga 8 bit samples, of some Moogs, and a distorted filter swept vocal: "My mind is going...and I like it". Unfortunately, I ran out of things to accompany the main hook from the 106. I ended up adding a really crappo cheasy melody to the end, just so that I could finish the track, and take it to a demo night with some muso buddies. Most people liked the first two minutes, building up, then a minimal spacey break down, a bit of percussion intro...to the cheasy finish. All but one broke out laughing, some with tears in eyes. Ahh, such memories. The one guy who didn't laugh, said he really liked the end, but didn't know what to make of the start - he was an R&B singer. A really goood guy, and a hell of a good singer, but just didn't get electro/tech/trance at all. Wish I still had that tape. I haven't actually recorded anything in the last few years. Haven't even had somewhere to set up my gear in one place for very long at a time. Since my early experiments with almost no gear at all, I am trying to gather a bit more of a collection, before focussing on writing/recording again. Damn, I miss it though. It's so much fun to share demos with your mates. Unfortunately, my wife also just doesn't get what it is all about. Great thread though. Love the topic.

Wow, this is almost the first time I have been part of an online discussion of monitors, where there is some agreement. Cool. I also didn't really think about buying the Gens, except once when I found a pair of floor stock being sold at less than half price. Unfortunately, at that time, I had just graduated, and had less than no money at all. An issue I have with Gens is that despite the price, I still don't think they are a really good all round monitor. I think they do mids and highs well, with really fantastic imaging, but I haven't heard good lows from any of the Gens I've previewed. I also felt the great imaging might be a bit too flattering of the source. @seppo Great to hear your impressions of teh M1s. I also felt they are very good value for money, and good enough to keep long term. Also interesting take on the Adams. I haven't listened to them a lot, or with material which I know really well, but I will be interested to hear them again, in light of your opinion. I agree with your friends, that Fostex do offer good value for money. I have only ever compared them to much higher priced speakers, so no surprises that I haven't been overly impressed. @stryd Which Events did you get? ASP8's? I did a little work with the 20/20 passives my friend had, and I felt they stacked up really well as an all purpose monitor. The passives could be found for a really good price too. My friend had them running with a decent reference amp, but nothing special. Even so, they sounded pretty close to the actives, so the value for money was really good in the settup. Anyway, I really meant to ask, how do you feel about your Events, after owning them for some time? Have you had the chance to do a side by side comparison between the ASP8's and the 20/20 actives? Has anyone worked with Tannoys or Dynaudios? I have only heard the lowest end from each of thes companies. My feeling was they didn't really offer the same value for money as some other brands. They certainly have long standing reps, though.

Hi, Forever, I have wanted to buy some really good studio monitor speakers. I have never had anything even close to decent listening speakers, let alone a reference monitor. I guess most people here can relate to translating a mix on crappy peaked speakers, with terrible room accustics, and trying to reference against any other sound source available, like some moderately priced headphones. It just damn hard work. I blew my first pair of speakers when experimenting with some low frequency resonance from my 202. It just ripped through the cones. Later my friend passed me a compressor with limiter for a low price, but my speakers were already dud. I picked up some Wharfedales recently, which someone was throwing out. They have a really woody resonance, which sound quite sweet and mellow for classical music, but is really colouring the sound, and one speaker of the pair only has its tubby 10" woofer operating. Anyway, I decided to trawl ebay from some cheapy monitors, and picked up some Alesis M1 Active MkII's. They are in the post now. I will give these an overhaul when I get them, fully expecting them to need some repairs, as they are a bit notorious that way. Most likely I will mod the power board for heat management, and replace the tweeters with new ones. I have heard the M1's many times in shops, and while I have never been impressed with them, they seemes neutral enough. From memory, they have a bit of a low-mid frequency resonance, and they lack clarity and detail, and have pretty limited sound imaging properties. Despite this, I can't help but feel a bit excited about the prospect of using the speakers. So, just wondered, what are other people's experiences with budget monitors? There seems to be a damn lot of them around now. Many times I have read some generous reviews online, and gone out to a shop for a listen, only to have my hopes deflated by really lack luster sound, which just doesn't even approach reference characteristics. I figure I will keep my M1's as a second monitor in the future, when I finally get around to buying something expensive. I think the M1's are neutral enough for that use, once I learn to work with their sound. While I'm at it, what are your impressions of the high end monitor offerings? I've recently had a listen to some Adams, Events, KRKs, Mackies, Fostex and a few others. I wasn't originally intending to put this in my post, but here is a quick summary of my impressions: Mackie HR824 MkII - Much better than the MkI's, still a bit lacking in clarity, detail and imaging found in some of the similarly priced speakers. Stacks of bass, and capable of much greater volume than I would look for in a monitor. Event Opals - Really closed sound, almost muffled sounding, lacking in clarity in highs. Voluminous, of course. Not impressed. Heard these next to some Adams, which really contrasted with the high freq performance Event ASP8 - I prefer these to the Opals, though I didn't hear them side by side. I previewed these next to the KRK powered V8s (from memory), and HR824 MKII's. These were my favourite from that session. I thought they were generally pretty good, and worth a second listen. Adam A7's - Heard these next to the Opals, and later next to some Fostex (can't remember which ones), and HR824 Mk II's. The ribbon tweaters give a really wide sweet spot, and very open sound. Good clarity and detail in the highs, I thought. I would say less defined sound imaging than the last Genelecs I heard, though Gens may be a bit flattering in this regard. I didn't hear any really bassy music on these, but my impression was that the bottom end was not as present or apparent as other speakers listed hear. Maybe the PM-11's would improve on this. I thought these were definitely worth a second listen. KRK Rokit Powered V8s (I think, didn't pay too much attention to these) - Not as bad as I had expected, from the reviews. Plenty of bass and again, more volume than I would need. Detail was better than I expected. Did sound a bit harsh to me. Maybe its like an NS10 thing? I think these speakers would probably bother and fatigue me though. I don't think I would look forward to a studio session on these, as much as I would on some others. Fostex (I heard a few) - I thought generally pretty decent, but I wouldn't pay retail for these. I only listened briefly to these. They seemed OK, but didn't do much for me in terms of insight to the sound. I completely admit some prejudice here, as Fostex has never been a brand I have gone out of my way to preview. Of course, prejudice is the devil when judging speakers, though. Well, this ended up being a much longer post than I originally intended. Hope to hear other people's experiences. Cheers, madox

Hi, Often with this kind of design consideration, it more of a precaution, than a need. Most of the time, it does no harm, and has a chance of doing some good, under certain conditions. Most low frequency circuits, with decent signal levels, and not really high power, will be pretty forgiving of layout issues. Sometimes there can still be some problems when there are both analogue and digital signals on the same region of a board, where layout precautions can avoid issues. The first couple of boards I did when I was a student suffered from this, as there were switching signals interfering with sensor signals. Improving the layout fixed all the problems, for a circuit that almost didn't work at all. All the signals, apart from the oscillator from the micro, were less than 100kHz fundamental freq. One board I did when I first graduated, also needed some adjustment to the layout. The board worked fine on the test bench, but had some problems when people used it in a harsh RF environment. Of course, this is not likely to be an issue here, but is just an indication of why layout is often done with precautions. Of course, if it works well as is, in the required environment, and the signals are clean, there is no reason to change a good layout. Oh, one small pointer I just noticed with the layout of your crystals. Obviously what you have done works, but crystals are one of the more sensative components for layout issues. I have found it is best to place these as close as possible to the oscillator pins, with tracks as short as possible, and each trace of the two nodes of equal length, and usually symetrical. Crystals can have issues with parasitic capacitance etc, and in bad cases, can fail to commence oscillation. This can be difficult to probe too, as disturbing the system can commence the oscillation, and everything appears fine. This can be inconvenient to have devices close to the IC pins, but can also save some hassles. Anyway, hope I don't seem too critical. I really do think it is a good layout. Cheers, madox

Just received mine in Australia today. Thanks Ultra! The board is a neat design. Not much wasted space, and seems like pretty efficient signal routing. I noticed you only put a ground plane fill on the bottom layer. I would normally have top and bottom filled with ground, and link between the top and bottom ground regions with vias. My designs are mostly for high frequency and high power applications, so the requirements are a bit different, but I think it is usually a pretty good approach for most designs, even if your circuit doesn't generate high frequencies on board (with exceptions of course). Anyway, thank you very much for these. My plan is to use these for customisable routing and merging for my GM5 interface. Of course, I will post back to the forum when (if?) I finish the project. Cheers Ultra. Much appreciated!

Me too. Thanks again, Wilba.