droolmaster0

You're curious as to my take on this, but by posting, I'm by definition being obsessive, and repeating myself....and nobody cares, including you, so you right a long response... At this point, I will only respond, briefly, if I see a serious misstatement of the facts.

I can't win - if I answer I'm a troll and lose, and if I don't, by default, I lose. But I think that any careful reading of everything that I've said here will show that your characterization of it is quite misleading and false. I'll assume unintentionally. Now, see, in order to defend myself, I'm being obsessive, and because I claimed that I was gone, etc, etc...but it's more important to you that I be labeled a villain than that what you say has truth value, so I'm sure that correcting your own errors isn't very important to you.

Your 'collector' dismissal was very well intended as an insult in this context, and you well know it. You don't even have the courage to admit it. I gave my email address publicly to do shady stuff? That's a lie. You're a fucking liar - you know perfectly well why I did it. It was to avoid all of this shit - to just speak with people on a 1 to 1 level, without this macho 'let's all see who can insult him the worst' and 'let's all see who can defend Thorsten the best' bullshit.

"ok im not going to argue on this, youre sort of collector" Yeah - at this point, I'm out of here, which is what everyone wants anyway, unless someone posts shit, which I may choose to comment on. Like the implication that I had not been threatened with legal action. I was, multiple times, by your inimitable smashtv - whether in this threat, or in the chat, I can't remember and don't care. The basic point is - I want nothing at all to do with you gang of assholes, and so even if I wanted to give this a try, would NEVER come back here and ask for help. If anyone, anywhere, asks me about my experience, I will volunteer it. And I may just volunteer it anyway. The notion that someone can't build me one of these privately, is ludicrous, and whether it is against someone's wishes or not, I don't fucking care. It's really none of anyone's business. I'm not talking about selling on Ebay. The very notion that I couldn't get someone to build one for me (even if he wanted to) is offensive to me. So fuck off all of you.

OWWW! That hurt

Rather patronizing...I think I probably am more familiar with what is available as far as current sequencing options than almost anyone here, and I have experience with quite a few of them. And, no, the electribes are not in the same class as the midibox (or the p3, or the Schrittmacher, or the Cyclus, or the Octopus, or the SAM-16), etc, etc... I still don't get it, really. For one thing, my transaction with Flavio has now become non-profit for him...so, I guess I'm not going to be hauled before a judge (as I was threatened multiple times). As I stated numerous times - I made a deal with him, and despite all of the threats and bullying from this end, I felt like I needed to honor it. Now that isn't even an issue. Given what I now know, I have no intention to 'break the rules'. I also don't think that, having no electronics knowledge, no soldering experience, being rather inept at putting the simplest things together, working a full time job, treasuring the time that I get to play with my electronics stuff, being 55 years old, etc - I just really don't want to embark on something that will take countless hours of my time with (imo) a rather small hope of success. If I cannot find someone to build me midibox stuff by the rules, then I just won't have any, I guess. I would, in that case, like to have my Blue Lantern special fixed, but if that doesn't happen, well, I'm out $75, and have a damn good sequencer that just needs to be shut off from time to time. If I'm going to spend many, many hours at learning a skill at this point, I'd rather it be working on the musical end or learning MAX, or one of the many other things that I've too lazy about. There is a strong sense that people here look down on those who don't want to build their own electronic equipment. I assume that you all build your own cars, TV's, and everything else you use.

yes - it does. It's not the only good one out there, or the best one (sorry) - but it's a fantastic tool. I suppose we all agree on that.

This post is a perfect example. I never said or implied that I was going to continue to do business with Flavio. I only said that he had been fair with me, and that I was going to honor my deal with him. I never said anything about not honoring terms, or any of that - I just made a simple point which is that there does not seem to be a way for a musician to get one of these - and no, I don't consider the desire to do so to be criminal in intent. Note please exactly what I said, not what you would like me to have said in order to attack me again. I'll say it again - I think that this is one of the most hostile, elitist forums that I've ever seen. And you're right - I originally had a reason to be here, and I was curious to see if anything more had been posted in this thread. But to tell you the truth, even if I learned to build one of these, I would have no desire at all to hang out with people like you.

thank you for one of the only civil responses I've received here. You're correct - I wasn't around for all of that, and all that I've actually experienced was good treatment by Flavio, and threats and insults here. Of course, that will generate more insults - but that was my actual experience. And, I still don't have an adequate answer to what I think is a legitimate question - for a musician who is not capable of building one of these things ( and I have to laugh at everyone's insistence that I can do this - maybe given the fact that I want to spend my time actually using the stuff, I don't want to spend the rest of my life trying to learn, probably in vain) - how does such a person come into possession of one of these. If there is indeed no way, then I'd say that your organization is really quite unpleasantly elitist.

Because there were some problems with the unit, Flavio refunded me all but $75, and allowed me to keep the sequencer. Therefore, I believe that it's fair to say that he did not wind up selling it to me at a profit. It is still 95% functional. As far as help with advanced functionality of this unit (and some things are unclear in the manual), I don't see much evidence on this list that people here are actually advanced users - almost all of the threads are about building, not using. It also never really occurred to me that people here would refuse to help, so while it was obviously a mistake, in some sense not to consider it, since I didn't know that you considered illegal to buy one like this, why would I have thought about it. As one who is always willing to help with stuff that I know about, I don't generally presume that people are going to be as downright nasty as many that I've encountered on this list.

Well, then - even getting someone here to build me one is illegal? You're going to subpoena me? The hell with all of you.

(sigh) - I don't agree that this is totally analogous to theft. If I steal a car, restitution would include returning the car to its rightful owner. In this case, I'm being asked to return the sequencer to the seller (thief). I do understand what you're trying to do here - but I don't have the history with these products, and these discussions that you do. I entered into this with the attitude of 'COOL - someone is actually selling one of these sequencers'. I subsequently found out that profiting is frowned upon, and then a bit later, that it's actually considered illegal. Apparently, any payment of a person for their labor in building one of these constitutes profit? Am I wrong on that? In any case, I didn't, and don't consider myself as being ripped off because - most emphatically not having the skills to build these things, I need to purchase 'for profit' electronic music gear. If you actually compare the prices of similarly powerful step sequencers on the market now, you'll see that the price of this is actually rather low. In the usual usage of 'ripped off' - no, I don't think that I was. The legality of the sale is another issue. Had I known initially that this was considered illegal, and that I would be able to find someone in this community to build me one - quite obviously I would have gone the latter route. Apparently that would have saved me money and grief. However, how would I have done this? Would it have been accepted if I had posted an ad here asking for someone to build me one? But I certainly would have at least tried that route. I expect though that I would have just been shouted down, or told to spend the next 5 years trying to build something that I have no skills at, and would never have pulled off. I disagree that because the sale may have been illegal, that I should betray the guy. He was nice to me in the deal itself, has been responsive to questions, and is helping with the resolution of the issue (he doesn't have one at the moment, and so couldn't answer my initial question). I strongly disagree that violating my own ethics here - which I think concern a much more complex set of issues than you're making them out to be - is the way to go. I will not betray the guy - he HAS been nice to me. I'm really sorry if that offends all of you - again - I didn't and DON'T have all of the history on all of this, though I'm gradually assimilating much of it. But damn - I just couldn't do that, EVEN IF someone here promised me a fully decked out midibox sequencer for free by tomorrow. I just couldn't do that. It's not that I don't understand where you guys are coming from, but everything about that, given my interactions with the guy, feels so wrong to me. I won't do it. At this point, I have had help on the issue, and I know that I won't receive subsequent help with the this sequencer on this forum. So, I'm not asking for anything at this point. I'm a reasonably facile sequencer user, and I'm sure that I could contribute to the forum on issues of its functionality and use....most of the discussions here seem to center around its construction. But - I know that I'm not welcome because of how I got this sequencer, and that probably even if I wind up returning it, I still won't be welcome...even if I can get a forum member to build me one.

I use the username Droolmaster, but for the purpose of this discussion, why don't we use 'Gene'. Sounds friendlier. I am willing to answer all of your questions honestly, but only if you are willing to respect my answers if I don't agree with you. I simply don't agree with you totally. For instance, I don't agree that I was ripped off. If I believed that I was ripped off I would pursue it. The problem is also that while you might be willing to actually discuss this with me, I don't see the same inclination on the part of everyone here - and frankly - I have had to restrain my temper from getting the best of me here. I don't want this discussion to degenerate further, and that is why I'm suggesting private emails. What is happening here is that if I don't agree 100% with what is being said, then I am immediately insulted by someone. I'll also say that I have received help, the issue that I posted about has been resolved. The sequencer might possibly be returned for other reasons, but there is no reluctance on the part of the seller to do this (in fact, he suggested it).

That doesn't sound to me like a totally accurate description, however I am not going to drag someone else into this discussion, unless they enter voluntarily. The facts as I have stated them have not changed.

Ok. That's it. The notion that I am willing to discuss this privately is dishonest is pretty out there. You guys have such a pack mentality going here - it's quite impressive. Who can insult me in the cleverest fashion....the thing about private emails is that it's one to one, and people actually listen. That's not what happens here.