droolmaster0
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Posts posted by droolmaster0
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I can't win - if I answer I'm a troll and lose, and if I don't, by default, I lose. But I think that any careful reading of everything that I've said here will show that your characterization of it is quite misleading and false. I'll assume unintentionally. Now, see, in order to defend myself, I'm being obsessive, and because I claimed that I was gone, etc, etc...but it's more important to you that I be labeled a villain than that what you say has truth value, so I'm sure that correcting your own errors isn't very important to you.
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so what, i consider myself a collector too . I collect JBL parts, vinyl, integrated circuit, analog guts everything so what. :P
at least the shady business you do has a new shade to it ... "fuck off" ... lol !!...
at the end Im right cause I wanted to leave the topic as it is, I suggested to lock it, everyone could see your "help me this is my emailadress i prefer doing my shady stuff privately" as well as everyone can see your emailadress on google doing this thing .
Your 'collector' dismissal was very well intended as an insult in this context, and you well know it. You don't even have the courage to admit it. I gave my email address publicly to do shady stuff? That's a lie. You're a fucking liar - you know perfectly well why I did it. It was to avoid all of this shit - to just speak with people on a 1 to 1 level, without this macho 'let's all see who can insult him the worst' and 'let's all see who can defend Thorsten the best' bullshit.
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uhum now tell me where i insulted him and hampered his (or your FFS) efforts.
We cannot talk about efforts at all so I see.
"wtf is the reason buying an obscure sequencer?" <~ is that an insult?
"... that is reckless too " <~ is that an insult ?
ok I leave behind this community if you want, too much acidâ„¢ for my taste anyway lol.
"ok im not going to argue on this, youre sort of collector"
Yeah - at this point, I'm out of here, which is what everyone wants anyway, unless someone posts shit, which I may choose to comment on. Like the implication that I had not been threatened with legal action. I was, multiple times, by your inimitable smashtv - whether in this threat, or in the chat, I can't remember and don't care.
The basic point is - I want nothing at all to do with you gang of assholes, and so even if I wanted to give this a try, would NEVER come back here and ask for help. If anyone, anywhere, asks me about my experience, I will volunteer it. And I may just volunteer it anyway.
The notion that someone can't build me one of these privately, is ludicrous, and whether it is against someone's wishes or not, I don't fucking care. It's really none of anyone's business. I'm not talking about selling on Ebay. The very notion that I couldn't get someone to build one for me (even if he wanted to) is offensive to me. So fuck off all of you.
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::)
yes, maybe this gear is so complicated that even its creator don't how it run... :-X
hum, you will found a music section somewhere here, nice to see you finally understnd that this place is for those who are building their MIDIbox..
you won't get help writing this way...
I recommend you to bypass all interface (especially those without a good manual) between yourself and the 240V outlet, so you will learn in only five millisecond all what you miss about potential difference..
;D
OWWW! That hurt
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btw. depending on what you want from the sequencer, a korg electribe ES1 or SX1 can give you even more than the mbSEQ for less money and time, is not like you don't have any more options. ;)
Rather patronizing...I think I probably am more familiar with what is available as far as current sequencing options than almost anyone here, and I have experience with quite a few of them. And, no, the electribes are not in the same class as the midibox (or the p3, or the Schrittmacher, or the Cyclus, or the Octopus, or the SAM-16), etc, etc...
I still don't get it, really. For one thing, my transaction with Flavio has now become non-profit for him...so, I guess I'm not going to be hauled before a judge (as I was threatened multiple times). As I stated numerous times - I made a deal with him, and despite all of the threats and bullying from this end, I felt like I needed to honor it. Now that isn't even an issue.
Given what I now know, I have no intention to 'break the rules'. I also don't think that, having no electronics knowledge, no soldering experience, being rather inept at putting the simplest things together, working a full time job, treasuring the time that I get to play with my electronics stuff, being 55 years old, etc - I just really don't want to embark on something that will take countless hours of my time with (imo) a rather small hope of success. If I cannot find someone to build me midibox stuff by the rules, then I just won't have any, I guess. I would, in that case, like to have my Blue Lantern special fixed, but if that doesn't happen, well, I'm out $75, and have a damn good sequencer that just needs to be shut off from time to time. If I'm going to spend many, many hours at learning a skill at this point, I'd rather it be working on the musical end or learning MAX, or one of the many other things that I've too lazy about.
There is a strong sense that people here look down on those who don't want to build their own electronic equipment. I assume that you all build your own cars, TV's, and everything else you use.
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dag nabbit....
I forgot to mention, MidiBox SEQ ROX!!!
gb
yes - it does. It's not the only good one out there, or the best one (sorry) - but it's a fantastic tool. I suppose we all agree on that.
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I get the distict feeling that you want the hardware, but are not willing to take it on TKs terms...
This is a DIY community. We help anyone who wants to learn. How is that elitist?
It's like saying a rehab center who will only take people who want to give up and help themselves is elitist.
If you wish to support Flavio and continue to do business with him you are making it clear you are no friend of this community. If you also have no interest in DIY or learning electronics I can't see why you are here.
This post is a perfect example. I never said or implied that I was going to continue to do business with Flavio. I only said that he had been fair with me, and that I was going to honor my deal with him. I never said anything about not honoring terms, or any of that - I just made a simple point which is that there does not seem to be a way for a musician to get one of these - and no, I don't consider the desire to do so to be criminal in intent. Note please exactly what I said, not what you would like me to have said in order to attack me again. I'll say it again - I think that this is one of the most hostile, elitist forums that I've ever seen. And you're right - I originally had a reason to be here, and I was curious to see if anything more had been posted in this thread. But to tell you the truth, even if I learned to build one of these, I would have no desire at all to hang out with people like you.
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Gene,
I can totally relate to the first part and WRT the second, believe me, they're usually not (I've been here a while). It's hard to understand, without having been around for the start of the whole bluelantern fiasco, what it did/does to the spirit here. You have to realize that after explaining/asking him to stop, and trying to make him stop, a lot of the energy might have hit sort of a dead end and it's probably not wise to poke around in it (which, I guess you found out).
Hope you get it sorted out, and apologies to TK and all here for the headaches this guy has caused (.. -->BL, not you Gene ;)).
George
thank you for one of the only civil responses I've received here. You're correct - I wasn't around for all of that, and all that I've actually experienced was good treatment by Flavio, and threats and insults here. Of course, that will generate more insults - but that was my actual experience. And, I still don't have an adequate answer to what I think is a legitimate question - for a musician who is not capable of building one of these things ( and I have to laugh at everyone's insistence that I can do this - maybe given the fact that I want to spend my time actually using the stuff, I don't want to spend the rest of my life trying to learn, probably in vain) - how does such a person come into possession of one of these. If there is indeed no way, then I'd say that your organization is really quite unpleasantly elitist.
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Because there were some problems with the unit, Flavio refunded me all but $75, and allowed me to keep the sequencer. Therefore, I believe that it's fair to say that he did not wind up selling it to me at a profit. It is still 95% functional.
As far as help with advanced functionality of this unit (and some things are unclear in the manual), I don't see much evidence on this list that people here are actually advanced users - almost all of the threads are about building, not using.
It also never really occurred to me that people here would refuse to help, so while it was obviously a mistake, in some sense not to consider it, since I didn't know that you considered illegal to buy one like this, why would I have thought about it. As one who is always willing to help with stuff that I know about, I don't generally presume that people are going to be as downright nasty as many that I've encountered on this list.
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From the front page: "Non-commercial DIY" and "Copyright © 1998-2008, Thorsten Klose. All rights reserved."
Flavio did not have the right to sell you that box because it contains firmware he does not own. We will deal with mr. Mireles separately via copyright infringement proceedings. He's mistakenly thinking copyright law does not apply to him, and he will learn an expensive lesson about this in court. He's been warned, you must understand he -knowingly- ripped you off. Why are you defending this with some talk of rep or ethics?
Buying the box from him was mistake number one. It happens, even smart people get the shaft sometimes. Hopefully you can get your money back, subpoenas can be a real time drain.
Mistake number two was demanding support from an all volunteer community. Again: we did not take your money, we owe you absolutely nothing.
Support is reserved for people who can read the rules. This is the equivalent of asking Microsoft for support for a pirate copy of windows. What do you expect the reaction to be? Helping you opens the floodgates to us supporting these poor quality illegal boxes Flavio is making.
To legally own a MIDIbox requires that you pick up a soldering iron and put parts on a board. Anything else breaks the "non-commercial" rule. Try as you might, there are no weasel words to get around this simple concept.
SmashTV
Well, then - even getting someone here to build me one is illegal? You're going to subpoena me? The hell with all of you.
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aside from the insults.....
what do you not agree with?
(sigh) - I don't agree that this is totally analogous to theft. If I steal a car, restitution would include returning the car to its rightful owner. In this case, I'm being asked to return the sequencer to the seller (thief). I do understand what you're trying to do here - but I don't have the history with these products, and these discussions that you do. I entered into this with the attitude of 'COOL - someone is actually selling one of these sequencers'. I subsequently found out that profiting is frowned upon, and then a bit later, that it's actually considered illegal.
Apparently, any payment of a person for their labor in building one of these constitutes profit? Am I wrong on that?
In any case, I didn't, and don't consider myself as being ripped off because - most emphatically not having the skills to build these things, I need to purchase 'for profit' electronic music gear. If you actually compare the prices of similarly powerful step sequencers on the market now, you'll see that the price of this is actually rather low. In the usual usage of 'ripped off' - no, I don't think that I was. The legality of the sale is another issue.
Had I known initially that this was considered illegal, and that I would be able to find someone in this community to build me one - quite obviously I would have gone the latter route. Apparently that would have saved me money and grief. However, how would I have done this? Would it have been accepted if I had posted an ad here asking for someone to build me one? But I certainly would have at least tried that route. I expect though that I would have just been shouted down, or told to spend the next 5 years trying to build something that I have no skills at, and would never have pulled off.
I disagree that because the sale may have been illegal, that I should betray the guy. He was nice to me in the deal itself, has been responsive to questions, and is helping with the resolution of the issue (he doesn't have one at the moment, and so couldn't answer my initial question). I strongly disagree that violating my own ethics here - which I think concern a much more complex set of issues than you're making them out to be - is the way to go. I will not betray the guy - he HAS been nice to me. I'm really sorry if that offends all of you - again - I didn't and DON'T have all of the history on all of this, though I'm gradually assimilating much of it. But damn - I just couldn't do that, EVEN IF someone here promised me a fully decked out midibox sequencer for free by tomorrow. I just couldn't do that. It's not that I don't understand where you guys are coming from, but everything about that, given my interactions with the guy, feels so wrong to me. I won't do it.
At this point, I have had help on the issue, and I know that I won't receive subsequent help with the this sequencer on this forum. So, I'm not asking for anything at this point. I'm a reasonably facile sequencer user, and I'm sure that I could contribute to the forum on issues of its functionality and use....most of the discussions here seem to center around its construction. But - I know that I'm not welcome because of how I got this sequencer, and that probably even if I wind up returning it, I still won't be welcome...even if I can get a forum member to build me one.
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Drool i havent insulted you once in this thread, in fact i actually backed you up with regards insults...
yet you seem to ignore my posts.
Please answer me this.
Why wont you use your Statutory rights, and get a refund for being totally ripped off? ???
If you did this from the start, then youd have a much better chance of buying a SEQ legally in the future.
Anyone can request to sell a Midibox, and once TK believes there is no profit to be gained and that its positive for the community, he will nameize the sale.
He has done this many times already, and he would do it again.
Now go demand that refund before its too late, for your good, and the good of the midibox community!
If the seller gives you any hassle whatsoever, you can claim with the Ebay buyers defense.
It only takes one minute to do this, and your claim will be investigated.
And we'll all be there to back you out, and get the justice you deserve as a customer.
I use the username Droolmaster, but for the purpose of this discussion, why don't we use 'Gene'. Sounds friendlier.
I am willing to answer all of your questions honestly, but only if you are willing to respect my answers if I don't agree with you. I simply don't agree with you totally. For instance, I don't agree that I was ripped off. If I believed that I was ripped off I would pursue it. The problem is also that while you might be willing to actually discuss this with me, I don't see the same inclination on the part of everyone here - and frankly - I have had to restrain my temper from getting the best of me here. I don't want this discussion to degenerate further, and that is why I'm suggesting private emails. What is happening here is that if I don't agree 100% with what is being said, then I am immediately insulted by someone. I'll also say that I have received help, the issue that I posted about has been resolved. The sequencer might possibly be returned for other reasons, but there is no reluctance on the part of the seller to do this (in fact, he suggested it).
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Did Doug not explain DIY only, noncommercial, etc. when you tried to get him to work on it?
That doesn't sound to me like a totally accurate description, however I am not going to drag someone else into this discussion, unless they enter voluntarily. The facts as I have stated them have not changed.
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don't use a few bad posts to excuse yourself from answering the others.
wanting to take it private smacks of dishonesty.
if he's being friendly and honest, then he will no doubt help you with your issues.
TK has already answered this. This seller had no permission, therefore this is theft.
equating the pointing out of contradictions to insults is beyond childish
Ok. That's it. The notion that I am willing to discuss this privately is dishonest is pretty out there. You guys have such a pack mentality going here - it's quite impressive. Who can insult me in the cleverest fashion....the thing about private emails is that it's one to one, and people actually listen. That's not what happens here.
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Ok so lets clear up a fact: You did not know when you bought it, but you knew before you asked for help here right? Maybe Doug Wellington could help clear this up a bit for us?
That is correct. I made the deal before I knew about it. I am not lying, and I'm not sure what Doug has to do with this.
But what I said yesterday is still true. I don't think that I can carry on a discussion here without being insulted, but if anyone wants to email me privately, that's fine. If no one here can understand that I do not feel right about turning on a dealer who has been friendly and honest with me, and that I do not feel that the situation is exactly analogous to theft, then you'll have to demonize me and leave it at that. I'm NOT going to be able to build one of these, and I"m not going to argue the point - I'm being asked to give up the sequencer in order to get help with it, which seems a little paradoxical. I'm sure someone will now insult me and point out the contradictions in my post. So be it. If you want to have a rational discussion with me - email me - but don't email me to elaborate on the insults that have already appeared here.
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1. You can't get him on our side. If he had any motivation to be on our side, he would not have bought something he knew was against our spirit. See his first post, the title of this thread, etc. He seemed to pre-empt our reaction to his illegally obtained MIDIbox from the start.
2. There's misplaced anger on both sides. He didn't bow down to your demands of turning to the good side to help defeat the evil blue lantern and now this thread is turning into a series of "what if" scenarios. In short, I don't care about what could have happened. I've already tried turning one of blue lantern's customers to the good side, it didn't work, and if the offer of a practically free MB-6582 can't get someone to help us then nothing will.
3. Blocking blue lantern's IP would do nothing.
Can we now go back to pretending blue lantern doesn't exist?
Or if you must, check out his latest auctions and take your bitchfest to the chat room.
I will re-emerge for a correction of the facts. As stated in my original post, and repeated - I did NOT know that these were not supposed to be resold when I purchased it. I purchased it because I had heard about the sequencer. I only found out later about this prohibition. At least if I am to be a villain, villainize me with the facts.
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people are very nice here.
what you have done is akin to discovering the synth you bought is stolen,
then knocking on the door of the guy it was stolen from and asking for help
using it.
I don't think that it's an exact analogy, but this isn't a forum for that. I understand your position. But obviously I will be shouted down here no matter what I say, so there is no reason to continue. I personally don't feel that it is right to return the item unless I figure out what's wrong with it. That ethical sense is not rude. Thorsten did not act as if I had treated him rudely, and it seems to me that if anyone should be offended, it should be him. I think that I asked for help respectfully and without trying to be dishonest about anything. I understood that people might want not to do it 'officially' on the forum, but I had hoped someone might be nice enough to email me personally to help me figure this out.
In any case, I know that I am not welcome here, so I'll leave.
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Really nice. Thanks. Really nice people here.
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my advice is this - back that piece of shit you bought to the Idiot (as TK described him, I would use harsher words). Use the money to buy the kits from smashTV and a soldering iron and come join us here, we'll give you all the help you need and you will learn so much about electronics in the proccess.
I'd say the educational factor for a synth collector would be priceless, you've gotta keep those babies running, and as someone who had (at one stage) over 60 synths I know how often they go wrong and how expensive it can be to maintain them.
I think that you take for granted that 'anyone' can do this. Trust me - perhaps someone, in person could show me how to do some of this stuff, but having no background in diy, electronics, and being a total klutz at putting things together, doesn't exactly give me the confidence to embark on something that would probably take me years, and many false starts IF I could do it. I think that also I'm in a tricky situation - I bought this device, and the seller was quite flexible in his arrangements and price, and I don't think that ethically I could just return it unless I establish that there is a problem. That's one of the things I'm trying to do. Right now, I'm trying to figure out how to upload the latest firmware (though I do think that 3.2) is on it, and the instructions for that are making my head spin. I'm not a dumb guy, but this is just an entire area that I know nothing about ... at this point I'm just trying to do 'the right thing'. I don't feel that I can just return the thing unless I establish what's wrong - which is one reason why I'm asking for help. I made a deal with the fellow, and that to me is my word - and one reason that I am known as an honest trader in the synth community is that I always keep it. I hope you understand.
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ok my last comment here, this is very very bad reasoning Im aware of this trend in audio, go into the boutique and pick the stuff and bring it home, yeah, If you would put time reading / thinking about this you might as well roll your own, this "ihave no skill i suck at electronics noone teach me" sucks so hard. I make my own stuff , read enough to do it, instead of pushing mpc buttons 24/7 :P
reading > bragging
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Price: € 2000 plus VAT & freight. 5 year warranty. Available again in early 2008 !
ok i enter this biz for real now : DDD
I admire your ability to make these things! However, I really do know how to use the stuff I have, and I see no reason at all for you to be insulting me. None.
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ok im not going to argue on this, youre sort of collector and Im not even interested what is available I dont even need midi , just CV. Yo, Im out of here anyway.
Look, man - I'm not a collector. I probably use my sequencers for more hours in a week than you do. I can understand you not wanted to help me, but I don't understand the attacks. By the way, the SAM-16 integrates midi, cv/gate, and audio.
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You could help me by writing a bad feedback on this auction, which points out what he is doing
This could even motivate me to spend some time to understand and solve your issue.
So, you are the first customer of an illegal sale who expects help from my side, how many additional sparetime do I have to spend for supporting even more people w/ zero knowledge, how to fix the hardware, how to upload a new firmware version, etc... hope that you see the point.
Best Regards, Thorsten.
Well, the deal wasn't actually through Ebay - I contacted him after the auction (not having the money at that time) and he offered to give it to me for cheaper, and we worked out a later payment.
I wouldn't expect hardware help or anything like that. I was just hoping that as one person to another, someone might give me a hint here, since it might be apparent as to whether this is user error, or a malfunction of the unit itself.
I understand your position, but I think that there are many situations where something happens for the first time, and you can adapt to what transpires. Obviously if you get a ton of people who have bought these, asking for help, that's different than if one person asks.
In any case, I can see why someone wouldn't want to establish a precedent in this public forum, which is why I asked if someone could send me a private email.
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i mean wtf is the reason collecting obscure sequencers OMG, this is reckless too
That seems gratuitously nasty. How exactly is USING sequencers reckless? And, btw, they are not obscure - you're obviously not familiar with what is available, I guess.
I've spent several hours trying to figure this out - can one build one of these in that time? In any case - I could never build one of these. I don't even come close to having those skills. If that makes me a bad person, well, so be it. I made this deal before I knew that this was a problem.
Is this really an indication of the people on this list?
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Hi Gene,
I hope that you understand, that I'm not willing to help somebody who bought a MIDIbox device from somebody, who never got my permission. It's totally furstrating for me, that there is no chance to stop this (sorry for the harsh word) idiot. He got the money, and we have to support the customers? Not with me!
Best Regards, Thorsten.
P.S.: it isn't personally against you, you probably didn't know about these illegal sales
I understand your position. But it does wind up being personally against me because I have this now, and need help. Helping me in no way has an effect on the seller of this piece. It's just me now. I was totally up front and didn't try to hide anything...I don't see how helping me will hurt your project.
Gene
Confession/and plea for help
in MIDIbox SEQ
Posted
You're curious as to my take on this, but by posting, I'm by definition being obsessive, and repeating myself....and nobody cares, including you, so you right a long response...
At this point, I will only respond, briefly, if I see a serious misstatement of the facts.