New User, Questions for Answering

[lgemusic]

Hello all,

This is my first post as i have just registered on to MIDIbox.org. Looking forward to sharing and even getting ideas from many people here.

Ok, intro done.

Since i am a new registered user, that means i don't know what i am doing with the MIDIbox equipment.

I only have a few questions, of which can easily be answered by many people on this forum, so bare with my questions and maybe, inexperience.

First of all, i want to build my own open-ended controller (great place to ask :)), but, i don't know where to start. As in, what parts i need to make it happen. But i will give you a background of myself as to then make it a bit easier to explain later on about what i need to know.

Simply, i am a music maker, i have and do still make many different styles of music for many years now. I have built little controller from previous built and worn down controllers, I do know how to solder and pretty much am a Max/MSP/Jitter user.

I also work in Logic 8, plus Kontakt 3 and Battery 3 and that is about it. But primarily keep Max/MSP/Jitter for live/studio work, also to obviously build my own software, but keep Logic for my main earning-a-living work

*Background Info Over*

The concept for my controller is very simple. Take my hands and eyes away from my computer (Mac OS X 10.5.6, just so you know i don't work on PC's anymore, used too, but got sick of them 8-9 years ago).

I have built a lot of nice Max/MSP/Jitter patches which i plan to use in a live sense but also still as a creative sense in the studio, but hate the fact of having to use the mouse and keyboard, as good as they are for what they are, it annoys me after a while. But, the controller can not just be used for Max, but also for anything else i wish to use it with.

My plan is to have quite a few rotary knobs, some endless some not, but do actually go up to a big number in total (around 100), also to go on top, buttons, and plenty of them (around 100). These number are obviously not the final numbers of the components that will go on, it is just an idea that i want a controller that has plenty of options on that can be assigned to different tasks when need be. Plus considering i am a Max/MSP/Jitter, do have to have enough options to play with both audio and video at the same time. And also, since i update and even re-work Max patches to be bigger and bigger as time goes by, would need extra options, just in case.

Plus as well, LED's are a must, but not 16 going round one knob and so on.

Anyhow, the main part of this question is this. What MIDIbox kit, or components do i need to at least get started in to what i want?. Would it be worth buying one of the pre-soldered kits from www.Mikes-Elektronikseite.de, or the other one

www.avishowtech.com/mbhp/buy.html?

Should i be using a MIDIbox 64, or a MIDIbox 64E?

Should i just do the the whole soldering myself?

Should i buy a MIDIbox-set or a MIDI-PCB-set, or both?

There are many other questions, but hopefully these can help in my enlightenment to building a really good controller to the specs i need.

These are really simple questions for you to answer, but for myself, i find the ucapps.de site a bit confusing when trying to figure out what i actually need to start building my own open-ended controller.

Thanks for your time, and hopefully you will be able to help me with my dilemma...

[Max Romantschuk]

Your questions so far are really general... ;)

What I'd suggest is to spend some more time reading through http://www.ucapps.de/ and the wiki, http://wiki.midibox.org/ There is a lot of information out there, and it is confusing. Give your mind time to let it sink in.

Once you have a better understanding and begin to come up with a plan, post it and request for more feedback. The funny thing with DIY stuff is that there are a lot of things which are simply a matter of preference. :)

Both Mike and SmashTV should be fine for parts. Smash's PCB's are silkscreened, which makes component placement a bit easier.

I'm starting a project myself at the moment... I've chosen to order a few modules (core, DIN, AIN, LCD) to experiment with. Once I get a proper feel for the platform I'll be making more permanent choices.

[lgemusic]

Great, thanks for a reply.

I will have a more deeper look into the ucapps and midibox sites. It does get a bit confusing without some direct contact links as well ig say i need to contact the people first hand.

So would it be better to buy a kit version of say a , MIDIbox 64E and would that be enough to actually get cracking with making my controller?

This is one of the main questions i do need answering the most. I have looked at the MIDIbox 64E and feels as if that could be the one to help me along in my path of building.

But if i decide i want to have a MIDIbox 64E kit, will i need anything else, except obviously i need to buy the pots, buttons and such, will i need say any other units to get it up and running?

Cheers again...

[nILS]

Find the box that suits your needs best then order the parts [after doing a lot more reading] ;-)

Direct contact? There's plenty in the chat (see link in the menu at the top of the page)

[lgemusic]

Cheers for the advice, but i may have actually found what i need. This list was made just a few hours ago, after some searching and also looking at the KIT versions on the websites that were mentioned before. But, obviuously just upped some of the numbers to the DINX4 & DOUTX

How does this sounds for starters.

1 x Core

8 x DINX4

4 x DOUTX4

1 x LTC

1 x LCD Module

1 x USB GM5 Module

Can this many modules actually be hooked up to the one core unit. This question raised a few eyebrows with myself, thinking that it can maybe be done, but generally thinking, i may need another core. But if not, i will get ordering ;)

cheers...

[stryd_one]

Be aware, those aren't "pre-soldered" kits like you said - they're DIY soldering. Kits just save you the trouble of making PCBs and finding all the parts for them.

As for your most recent post... You do have too many of a certain module, but I'm not telling you which one. Why? Well it's either

A) I'm a bastard

or

B) I want you to go read, so that you can learn all that you should learn before you start, and save you lots of trouble.

Give you a hint: it's not A). Not today anyway ;) The other guys in this thread have told you to go read, for a good reason.

Here's one example I will spoon-feed to you. You spoke of having 100 knobs. That is what we here refer to as a metric shitload of inputs (thanks to smashtv). When you spend a few weeks (yes, weeks, you read it right) reading around here, one of these days you will come across one of the many many posts by newbies, talking about gigantic boxes they planned to make. Sadly, you will also not come across many at all that have actually been completed (or even started!). Why? well, you will also notice that, in most cases, the newbie has been warned that they've bitten off a big chunk to start with, and that in fact they would, for all logical reasons, be better off using a smaller number of knobs, and a paging system.

Same advice goes for you. I don't know much about exactly what you have in mind, but I can fairly safely say that you don't need or want that many knobs, even if you think you do. I can also safely say that if you try to build a super-custom-monster-device, as your first midibox, you are destined to either fail or be working on it for several years.

Another example - you said "some endless some not" - where are your AINs then? Do you know the difference yet?

This is not a post designed to scare you off - it's designed to save you trouble which others have suffered from, by helping and encouraging you to find the easy way before you start ;) To be 100% honest with you, if you haven't even found the page that tells you how many modules a core can handle, or the bit about the differences between pots and encoders (It's in the FAQ, ffs!) you need to do a LOT more reading before you start buying stuff.

Well heck, I dunno, maybe you're super rich and don't mind buying things you don't need, or missing things you do need and having to pay extra shipping for an extra order... Maybe you're the type to splash out some dough and get your training 'on the go', before you start ordering for your real build (although it doesn't sound that way) ... I dunno.... I've made lots of assumptions and generalisations in this message. The one thing that's definite is this: I think you need to read more before you start.

[Max Romantschuk]

I usually think stryd_one is a little harsh, but today I agree with him... :)

You need to do more reading... Start with these:

http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp.html

http://www.ucapps.de/mios.html

Once done, go through everything in the left-hand menu on ucapps.

Once done, dig into the wiki, and get to grips with the forum search. Use advanced search and have it show message bodies.

In any case, I'd still suggest the route I'm going: A minimal setup to start with and use that to learn the platform. Like I said I currently have a core, a DIN, an AIN and an LCD. One of each. I have no idea what I'll need in the end, but with those I can do both digital and analog inputs and output on the LCD.

If you want to get a feel for what soldering these kits are like check out my project blog:

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/topic,12698.0.html

This community can be a little harsh at times, but then again electronics isn't like HTML coding. ;) Fucking stuff up can cost money or cause fire hazards... So educating yourself really is a must. In any case what your proposing will likely require (C or assembler) coding skills too... The finished midibox apps only handle a small subset of what's possible with MIOS.

[stryd_one]

I usually think stryd_one is a little harsh

Usually you're right. Actually, usually stryd is right, *and* a little harsh. I think that's what gives him the harsh edge ;)

In any case, I'd still suggest the route I'm going: A minimal setup to start with and use that to learn the platform.

That's the best way, no doubt. Takes longer, but by the time you order your real kits for your real device, you'll be half-guru.

[lgemusic]

No, you are completely right. So don't worry about what you said.

I am a little kid sometimes, feeling like i have eaten too many sugary sweets, getting all hyped up, then have that big come-down, then i start to think more clearly.

I am doing my reading right now actually, so it is best i stick with that for a good long time a read every symbol that pops up.

But have also planned out a layout of what the controller can have on, and it is way less than what i originally said. But still with enough on mind ;)

Thanks though for your honest opinion anyhow, it does mean a lot, especially since i have not used a MIDIbox kit before. I have used other kits before, but these ones seems more, how can i put, *woof*. Pretty into it.

Again, thanks. I am doing my reading now, and will continue until i have a more clearer idea of my controller and what i will exactly need.

Cheers yet again...

[stryd_one]

I am a little kid sometimes, feeling like i have eaten too many sugary sweets, getting all hyped up, then have that big come-down, then i start to think more clearly.

That's just being passionate, and that never hurts :D

these ones seems more, how can i put, *woof*.

LOL!

As I said though mate, don't be scared off. TK has made it so darned easy you'll laugh. It's just a good idea to go into it well-educated. Kinda like driving a car, it's not that hard, once you know what you're doing... but if you put yourself behind the wheel of an F1 racer as a first drive, you might not have as much fun as you think ;)

[lgemusic]

Nah, i am not scared of doing the diving in to make something, even something simple. But, yes it is better to have a good head on your shoulders before you start.

The monome was not too bad, little fiddly at times, but once done, was a pleasure.

Have just been now pre-occupied by building some Max/MSP/Jitter patches just now, but will wait till i get home from work before i properly sit down and read these pages

[Futureman]

. Actually, usually stryd is right, *and* a little harsh. I think that's what gives him the harsh edge ;)

yes... but who will win his heart over? does he like like me, or just like me?

[stryd_one]

rofl I think you've been spending way too much time with nils and cimo ;)

[lgemusic]

Ho Ho Ho,

Ok, after some hardcore reading. Also some more questions answered to some 'success' stories, including some more well known people and have now come up with my module list.

Ahh yes, there was too many DINX4's, by 6, hahaha. But although i have now sorted out what i need, exactly what i need mind, hahaha. Have taken off a few options, but have still enough options on to at least feed my thirst for my controller. Which after reading, asking questions and some more things, have realized that building this won't take up much time and even money as i did think, although the biggest cost will come to the casing.

So now the plan is too gather my resources, get some more plans drawn up, have a bigger think of EXACTLY what i need and get started in late January-February.

Will post some more questions later on, but more to the part of doing the firmware parts. Considering that even though i have looked through the entire site and even the ucapps site. Can't find anything for Mac firmware development, or basically the software you can use with the PC, but with Mac. Is there anything for Mac?

Cheers again for the help...

[stryd_one]

Now youre getting there ;)

There's info for your mac in the application development section of the wiki, and the readme files in the mios_base package.

Cheers!