My midification of my 70's Baldwin 210

[tonyn]

OK.

I did look up the specs on the Douts and see that they can drive LEDs and relays and latch them, etc.

But they are output circuits. For input for manually pushing the stop buttons I'll still need Dins.

Sometimes I am just lazy and don't want to look or think.

Simple.

All I need to do is order 4 Douts from avishowtech.

Unfortunetely I am tapped out for money right now.

So I can't order any douts right now.

But I can finish my keybaords, swell, pedal board, and then think out the stops and pistons.

I cam do the Din and core parts of the stops and pistons but make sure I take into accoutn the Douts too.

I also will call my organ guy and see what he has for me for stops and push button pistons.

If I can aford what he wants for those, which shouldn't be much, I'll at least have that part to play with.

I'll have to redo the stop part of the organ if I am going to instal new stops.

Just so I have this right:

For my swell pedal I don't need a Ain right?

I can just a potentiometer between 5V and ground and connected the variable to directly to pin 2 (RA0) on the PIC via connector J5 A0 of the core right?

Then use this code for the midibox for the swell pedal?

9 -- B0 07 04 1 --- CC: Volume

9 -- B0 07 03 1 --- CC: Volume

9 -- B0 07 02 1 --- CC: Volume

9 -- B0 07 01 1 --- CC: Volume

9 -- B0 07 00 1 --- CC: Volume

[tonyn]

This was a hard decision for me!

I am now commited to this!

I can't go back now!

I just cut the wiring harness for the old contact boards to the old electronics!

Now I will gut them out of the old wires and electronics,

and see what I need to do to wire them up to the Dins.

Here's a picture from the top of one of the old contact boards.

[tonyn]

Damn!

Be careful when removing old contact boards,

if you want to re-use them, else you may end up with broken parts like I have.

I must have damaged my old contact boards somehow when I took them out, etc.

I will have to either make a couple of these or see if I can get some from my organ guy.

These are fragle!

Note: What I will do for the time being is(as I did when I had broken keys from a move),

move the broken parts to keys of an octive that doesn't get played much

(like the highest octive on the lower keyboard).

These parts shouldn't be hard to make though.

I just need to get my dremil and some circuit board material

(seems like they are made out of that), and cut a few new ones.

Or I could use acrylic, etc.

On the bottom of a few, they are missing the rubber gromets.

Those I should be able to match up at my hardware store.

So it shouldn't be hard to replace them.

But now I NEED TO BE CAREFUL WHEN WORKING WITH THESE CONTACT BOARDS, NOT TO DAMAGE ANY MORE!

Edited December 23, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

OK.

I have one of the old contact boards completely stripped of the wire harnesses and electronics.

That was a lot of wires to cut.

I won't need all of those wires and I am commited to completely midifying these anyway.

Plus I want to lighten up these boards by only having wires attached that I need to neaten it up, etc.

Basically all that will be wired to them is the ribbon cables from the Dins.

Plus by cutting all of the wires , if there was a matrix, it should be broken now

(Unless I need to break some points on the circuit baords too, I'll see).

I can now trace out the circuit boards to see what I need to do.

Edited December 23, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

Well these contact circuit baords are simple!

But interesting.

They do have a common I can use for one side for my Din grounds.

They do have resistors, but I'll bypass those.

But there is a rubberized type of coating when they make contact

that gives 5k ohm resistance, etc.

That part is interesting.

Should I leave it on or scrape it off?

Let me take a look again at the Dins.

Maybe I can leave that as is and remove the resistors from the Dins, etc.!

Also:

I only need one set of contact circuit boards.

So to allow for mounting of the Dins and Core directly onto these boards

I will have to remove some circuits down to the lower one,

so I can mount the Dins and cores and have space between the keyboards.

I'll just use spacers to the leaf springs which need to be on top.

Edited December 23, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

Well that solved that.

The rubberized part was actually 2 pairs of rubber strips that were crimped in on each side with metal tabs.

So I just lifted the metal tabs that crimped them and pulled the rubber strips out.

Now 0 resistance!

So I'll just strip them out of the circuit boards I need.

Now to remove the other boards down to one layer of circuit boards.

To replace the space that was taken by the removed circuit boards, I'll use washers.

There are also spacers that spaced the circuit boards.

I can keep those.

I do need the top leef spring parts to be the same height,

so that means that I need to space it from the lower circuit boards.

This space will allow me to mount the Dins and core in that area.

This is looking like it will be easy to redo these old contact boards!

Edited December 23, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

Well it wasn't quite that simple.

After removing the rubber strips and remounting a circuit board,

and pushing the tab to simulate a key press:

It couldn't make contact with the metal part.

THESE ARE PRESICE CONTACTS!

So what I will need to do is find some metal to replace the rubber strips.

I could bend the metal part down but I don't want to do that,

since my bend may not be exact for all circuit boards.

Humm, what to use???

[tonyn]

I think I got it!

I'll just solder strips of wire in to replace the rubber!

But what gauge would work?

I'll have to see..

[tonyn]

Works great!

I used 18 gauge solid copper wire.

I didn't solder it but just crimped it, for now.

It makes good contact just like I want!

As you can see I only need one layer of these circuit boards.

Now to do this to the rest.

After that it's just figuring out how to fit the Dins and core in.

I didn't use washers since I had left over spacers, I used them instead to get the right height.

The rear screws will be reduced to accomodate the Dins and core in that area.

Edited December 23, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

OK.

All of the 18 gauge copper wire is crimped in on one contact board(i.e. the Solo, or top keyboard),

and it is down to one layer of contact circuit boards.

Now to figure out how to mount the Dins and core.

This contact board had 5 broken tabs!

I can move 4 to one end of the keyboard and one to the other.

These tabs are 3/32 inch thick(as compared at hardware store to 3/32 inch acrylic).

So I can make new ones out of 3/32 inch acrylic.

[tonyn]

Taking a look at the stacks of contact circuit boards I stripped out that aren't needed:

I am keeping them in case I may want more contact boards for something later.

I would like to have second touch, but I need to figure out how to get it.

When I figure out how to mount my Dins and cores in that area I'll compensate for a couple more

contact boards just in case.

I only need enough height so the Din and core circuit boards are not too high.

I have about 2-3 inches max height for these contact boards before I run into trouble with clearance between keyboards, etc.

Plus it WOULD be nice to figure out how to design a set of contact boards for second touch, etc..

So I'll mount the Dins and core so that they allow for more contact boards, etc.

The tallest component is that 2200 cap on the core.

I am also going to try to epoxy the broken tabs together.

I do have all of the pieces, so if that work I'll be able to have a full keyboard for the solo.

The other contact board has tabs that maybe beyond repair though.

But that is the lower keyboard, which has areas that are not played much,

so I can put the bad ones in those areas until I can either find good ones or make them.

These tabs seem to be solid when in the contact boards, and don't get much preasure from key presses.

So in the organ they are fine.

It's just when you take out the contact boards they become vunerable to damage,

so note this when you remove them.

I also have my organ guy that may have some.

Plus if I want to make better ones I would make them out of acrylic,

which should have a longer life than the circuit board material those old tabs are made out of

(they over the years may have dried out and became brittle, etc.).

If I plan to replace ALL of them with acrylic ones:

I WILL NOT MAKE THEM MYSELF!

I do have this acrylic manufacture guy that can make precise parts like this out of acrylic.

So I can see how much he would want to make all of them.

As you can see in my setup I screwed the ends of the contact board to scrap pieces of 3/4 plywood

to protect the tabs while I was working on it outside of the organ.

When I wire up the Dins I will bypass those resistors(they aren't the right value anyway).

I AM NOT removing them since they are attached to the contact wires and add to the alignment,

integrety of the board, etc.

If I try to remove or replace those resistors I may run into trouble with the contact wires, etc.

Edited December 24, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

Second touch!

I have an idea on how to get it!

As you can see the contact boards have wires that make contact with the metal that is at a 45 degree angle.

When I removed the rubber strips I had to replace that wth something to make contact.

Those strips were there because the old electronics had a lot of current to those and those contacts drove gates.

So the rubber added resistance.

I haven't tested it out, but right now the keys, I think, make full contact when

they are all of the way or mostly all of the way pressed down, thus the wire hits the top of the 45 degree angle and copper wire.

But, by bending that metal, or moving the wire from front to back

(good thing they are crimped so I can move them if needed), etc.,

I maybe able to get a contact with a keypress half way etc., and all of the way, etc.

Thus first and second touch, etc.!

But this would be a very precise adjustment.

I have enough spare contact circuit board with which to experiment with.

So I'll play with that later.

But now I know I want at least 2-3 contact circuit boards installed:

One for first touch, one for second, and a spare for something else.

I still should have enough clearance.

I'll need 2 more Dins for that too, but those are low profile

(except for the IDC part,

which can be changed later by removing the strain reliefs, etc.,

to allow 2 Dins to stack nicely on top of each other).

See, I always think things out so that I cn allow for improvements, etc., later.

Edited December 24, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

I also figured out how to mount the Dins and core:

I will just cut some square pieces of 3/32 inch acylic, that will mount above the contact circuit boards(3 now as decided),

drill some holes into the acrylic pieces that align with the lower contact circuit board screws, and mount them to that part.

To those acylic pieces I will drill the 4 screw holes for the Dins and core,

and mount them to the acrylic pieces using my nylon spacers and #6 machine screws and nuts.

Simple.

I shouldn't need to redo any ribbon cables that I used for my push button boards,

etc., just remount on acrylic pieces.

But this time the ribbon cable ends will be soldered to the contact circuit boards.

I'll show you when I get to that part.

But today is Christmas eve., so I may not be able to do that today.

But at least it's all planned out now.

It's just doing it that's all.

[tonyn]

Well I just switched over to Jorgan now for the front end of the virtual organ part.

Miditzer was nice to start but now for complete customization of my console, etc.,

I will be working with Jorgan next.

I am using an example disposition of the Wurlitzer 260 for fluidsynth.

Although the Wurlitzer 260 is written for 3 manual organs, I like all of the bells and whisles.

I will map the Solo and Great together for the Solo keyboard of my organ.

For some reason I had to set the channel in Jorgan to 0, for channel 1 of the core.

But the midibox works great with Jorgan now too!

Eventually I want to load real sound files and send them out to the apropiate sound channels(3, including the leslie).

I am using the fluidsynth version right now because I am using the realtec integrated sound

on the motherboard of the organ computer.

But I do have some nice soundblaster cards to install later.

I just have to figure out how to send the right sounds out the right channels, etc.

Right now the sound DOES come from inside the organ, but that is with 2 small 10w powered speakers,

I just set inside of the organ.

Later I will see if I can use the old amp of the organ(installing new caps, etc., and adding preamps, etc.).

But I'll need to get the full Baldwin 210 schematic

(he can get me the full repair manual with the schematic for $40) and some help from my organ guy.

He has been working on organs for over 40 years, and knows the electronics inside and out.

I am a bit rusty on the electronics parts, but better on the programming.

It's good to know an old organ repair person for parts, and knowledge, etc.

I DO have the origional owners manual for this organ!

The owners manual explains how the different stops and keyboard sounds are routed.

But it doesn't explain the Rhythm too well.

It's been so long since I played the organ that I forgot what some of the stops did and sounded like.

I do want to sort of mimic the old features, but then add to and improve upon them.

Miditzer was a nice start, but I want full customization.

I will also be using photoshop to design my own skins, stop tabs, etc., for my console.

I would like to start with Jorgan, at least as a front end.

I did play with Jorgan before and started making some custom dispositions and skins, etc.

I changed the stop tabs heights to not pull out so far, so that I can put them all on the screen, etc.

I also took pictures of my organ's console and stop tabs to use too.

So I know a bit on how to configure it.

I am not digging too deep into the programming right now, just trying it out(but I'll come back to it later).

So don't worry, I'll be back to the construction with plenty of pictures for you, showing each step :)

I almost forgot:Ho Ho Ho. :o

I am Santa Claus right now and just finished putting the gifts under the tree for my son.

Edited December 25, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

I just decided on the size of my acrylic pieces.

I will make one per contact circuit board so that it is consistant,

and each can be removed to easily work on it.

They will be as wide as the contact circuit boards and as thick,

but they will be deeper and run to 1 inch of the back of the assembly,

to allow for the ribbon cables to route, but stay within the demensions of the assembly.

I need to figure out the sizes ahead of time so that the day after Christmas,

I will be ready for them, and can go to the hardware store to have them custom cut.

This is 3/32 inch acrylic, which is hard to snap just right without cracking it, etc.

So I'll leave that up to the hardware store to do.

I will need 10 pieces, and they shouldn't be more than $1 ea.

So it doesn't pay to try to snap them myself.

I know this from experience!

Anything under 1/4 inch of acrylic is hard to snap or cut(too flexible).

1/4 inch you cut(it's too hard to snap).

But I have sucessfully snapped 1/4 inch with a deep enough grove(dremel guys, they are great tools)

Well you can cut 3/32, but why bother when it's cheap enough to have custom done,

plus it's too flexible with trying that too without getting cracks.

Ace hardware does a good job, and if they crack any, you don't pay for them.

I'll drill the holes though.

I have worked with acrylic in my aquarium DIY stuff.

I like glass for the aquariums and sumps, but acrylic for overflows, etc.

I love acrylic where I can use it.

It doesn't rust, dry out(well it can but many many years).

It's easy to work with to make all kinds of stuff with.

Plus it doesn't conduct electricity, which is good for where you don't want that.

It will look neat too(just wait until you see my completed assembly).

It would work great for the tabs too,

since you want non conducting material for those since the contact wires go into their notches.

There is a version of acrylic that is called plexiglass, which is more flexible,

since some acrylic is brittle.

The hardware store version, I think, is plexiglass.

I do want that for the tabs(when or if I decide to change them over to acrylic).

That is because the tabs have very narrow areas in the notches that if the material is brittle,

they can break easy, just like with the old material of the tabs.

I don't want that!

The pieces that I'll mount the Dins and core to,

can be flexible too(well 3/32 will be), since the screws will firm them up,

as they do for the contact circuit boards, so the mount should be solid.

Lexon is another version too(little harder to cemment I think though), I think is at Home Depot.

I can get black or clear in either, just depends on what is easily available, etc.

Edited December 25, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

Sheu..

That was tedious work.

It took me all night to just remount 2 more contact circuit boards back in.

I had to figure out the number of spacers to use to get the right height.

I had to carefully insert them so the contact wire springs nor tabs were damaged.

Plus I had to put the wires back into the groves in the tabs.

The boards with the crimped wires are on top for easy access.

Plus if that is to be the second touch I want those boards last in the keypress

(don't ask why, it just makes some sort of sense to me that the second touch should be last),

which will be on top.

Now this board is ready to add the acrylic pieces and mount and wire up the dins and core.

I am also thinking out how to flip and rearrange the dins better now that I know how the core sees them, etc.

Now this contact board will go into the organ temporarily to check on the contacts actually making good contact,

and for feel (I am sure it's great since these boards were designed for the organ), before I continue any further.

The organ is also the safest place for it to prevent damage while I work on the other contact board to strip it down.

Here's a few pictures for you:

Edited December 25, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

Now that is what I want!

The key press is perfect, as intended with these old boards.

I was also right in the fact that where I put the copper wire makes a difference on where it makes contact in the key press.

Right now where I have the copper wire crimped at would be good for second touch(i.e. you have to press the keys all of the way to get contact).

All I need to do on the organ side is adjust for height.

I forgot what origionally was inserted between the board, a nut, a nut and a washer, or nothing.

See I changed that when I mounted the wood boards in.

I should have taken a picture to resort back to.

But that is no problem I just need to play with those combinations until it's just right.

At least the keys align with the contacts every other way without bending any metal.

Now that that is confirmed I will continue with stripping the other board,

and mounting and wiring up the dins and cores.

Edited December 25, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

Damn!

Looking at the old Accompanment contact board I have 8 broken tabs!

So that is 5 from the Solo and 8 from the Accompanment keyboards.

I can't swap between the keyboards the tabs, since the stacks of contact boards are different.

So for the Solo I was able to move the broken ones to 4 on the top Octive and 1 on the lowest.

For the Accompanment I have to do 4 on each end.

That leaves the middle Octives all in tact.

I have all of the broken pieces of the tabs for the Solo.

So those I can try to epoxy and then I would have all of the Solo keys working.

For the Accompanment I have all but 2 that can be fixed(2 are beyond repair).

I will check with the hardware store tomarrow to get their opinion on what the best type of epoxy to use to repair them.

If the tabs can be repaired, I will only have 2 keys on the Accompanment unplayable until I can replace 2 of those.

I'll also check with my organ guy to see if he has any, if not I'll have to make them.

All of these tabs could have been broken with my dissassembly of the organ, or maybe in a move.

I have had this organ for 25 years, and it has been moved a lot, and carelessly a few times.

A hard blow to a key may have damaged some tabs.

But even with these broken tabs, I am still happier with the old contact boards than with my push button boards.

Looking back at the push button design:

They did have an OK feel(a bit stiff at the end of a keypress, but not too much),

but required VERY precise alignment of the holes for the switch mounts,

precise height adjustment(one thickness of a washer can make a big difference),

and need to be mounted on a solid piece of metal vs wood(wood even with a slight warp is too much).

I will see if I can use the push buttons somewhere else,

and the terminals I can put to use somewhere.

Edited December 26, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

Crossing my fingers..

I just called my organ guy about the tabs and he thinks he has them.

He was on the road so he will call me back later today once he gets home and checks.

If he has them it will save me alot of work(hand making them ottu of acrylic with a dremel will take time),

and I can feel good with having all of it working.

I didn't feel good about epoxying them anyway.

This morning I just finished getting the Acccompanment board ready for the acylic pieces.

I am nwo awaiting my wife to get home with the car so I can go to the hardware store to get the peices cut.

[tonyn]

I just returned from the hardware store with my 3/32 " acrylic pieces.

I had 2x 6 7/8 " x 3 3/8 ", and 8x 6 3/8" x 3 3/8" cut.

10 total for only $15, and it took only 10 minutes for them to do a good job.

2 are wider because the last stack of contact boards has 13 contacts.

There are 4x 12 contact stacks, and 1 13 contact stack per contact board.

4 x 12 + 13 = 61.

I measured them to allow for the core baord which is the widest.

Then allowed for about 1 inch in back for the ribbon cables to go.

Now to drill the holes and place them in place and measure for screw lengths, etc.

I have to get to that point before the hardware store closes today(5 hours from now) so I can get the screws, nuts, etc.

I can't tell the exact lengths until I insert the acrylic and measure.

Once I have all of the screws and hardware the rest is just soldering and assembling, which I can do later.

Edited December 26, 2009 by tonyn

[RVBottomly]

Hey, Tony, I think I found this thread too late, but I wanted to ask you if your organ had percussion.

The reason I ask is that I own a Baldwin 214DR that has similar key contacts to yours. Wherever the contacts control stops, there is an elastomer pad with resistance.

But, for the percussion controls, there is a silver rail that the wire touches. On my organ, there are two silver rails, the top one and the one beneath it. Beneath those are the elastomers.

If there is the silver rail, there is no need to strip out the elastomer and put in a new wire. Just use the silver rail--it has zero resistance.

On mine, I didn't even have to remove the contact boards. I just bypassed the resistors and used the existing wiring (it's color-coded by note for each octave).

You are farther along than I am, but I thought I'd try to bring this up in case other people are working on Baldwins.

[tonyn]

I just finished drilling the holes for all of the acrylic pieces.

Only one cracked around 1 hole out of 10 pieces and 50 holes, because I forced the drill bit too hard.

This is the plexiglass version,

which the hardware store guy corrected me in telling me this is the brittle version.

Plus you need to go slow when drilling or cutting acrylic.

But that is not bad and that piece is still good.

I have them all mounted awaiting measuirements for the core and din placements.

I also have all of my hardware with screws, etc.

As you see I had to remove one layer of contact circuit boards.

After putting the core on top of 3 layers and the plexiglass,

and remeasuring the hieght, it was too high.

That 2200 cap!

But I only need 2 sets of contacts anyway for first and second touch.

The rear 2 screws for the contact circuit boards and acrylic pieces

I had to change over to 4mm metric pan head.

The old ones were non standard(but a bit smaller than 4mm), and were threaded on each end,

so that nuts and lock washers went on each end.

They also were threaded into the bottom metal of the board.

So I had to use a slightly larger drill bit to ream out the holes in the metal a bit(7/64" bit),

and then used the 4mm screws to tap the threads.

Worked well.I wil also add nuts and lock washers to the bottom as with the other screws.

Plus lock washers on top later.

Baldwin saw that lock washers everywhere they can be used seamed important, so do I.

Edited December 27, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

I figured out the placement of the dins and core, drilled the holes in the acrylic,

and temporarily mounted them.

I had to cut the resistors out to allow for the screw heads that ended up on top of a resistor.

I also have mounts for 2 more dins for second touch!

Both sets of dins are centered per 32 contacts as I did with the push button board.

But this time I allowed for 4 dins.

All I need to do is figure out the placement of the fuse holder,

and power terminal(both mounted onto the metal part for better stability).

As you can see, I flipped the Dins and Core so pin 1 in midibox will pin 1 on Din 1, etc.

Now to do the Solo board, and then it's just wiring them up.

[tonyn]

Note:

It is important to think out how you are going to be able to easily disassemble

or assemble things to do adjustments or repair, etc.

The rear 2 screws Baldwin had them threaded on each end, and into the metal.

This allowed them to stay put in the metal, but the nut on the bottom secured them more.

Since there are spacers between the contact circuit boards,

it helps to not have screw heads, so that you can mount the boards onto the spacers and then put nuts on top.

I had to go to screws with heads, since the Dins mount over the tops of the screws and I didn't want anything touching

the bottom of the circuit boards.

But my way is a bit tricky to assemble, etc.

Since you need to carefully insert the spacers btween the boards, then screw the screws in, and then add a nut on the bottom.

I do want nylon spacers between the Dins and core circuit boards and acrylic.

But you can't access the bottom of the acrylic pieces for the screw heads.

For a couple of Dins I can premount them on the acrylic.

But, sincee a couple of Dins mount to 2 acrylic pieces,

I can't.

So I had to change the mounts a bit by adding a nut under the spacers so that I can tighten the screws to the acrylic,

add the spacers, then just pop the circuit boards on and add a nut on top.

This added nut added 1/16" to the overall heights, but I have that to spare, barely.

But at least it makes for assembly/disassembly easier.

I also added nylon washers on top of the dins and core, just in case the nut may short a run that maybe too close to the holes.

This doesn't add any height.

I will also put a piece of electrical tape on the rear screw heads

to make sure there are no shorts to the bottom of the din and core circuit boards,

that mount over them.

All of this extra hardware does add up.

But, if you are to do something, do it right.

Once I am done with my contact boards, I shouldn't have any worries later, if I do it right to start.

Also:

Before I took out the old stacks of contact circuit boards out I noted the heights to the tops of the leaf springs.

Then when I added the acrylic pieces, etc.,

I figured out how many spacers(I was able to reuse the origional spacers, had enough)

needed to bring the heights back to what it origionally was.

This maintains the origional integrety of how it was designed.

These contact boards were well designed for feel and to last.

I wanted to keep that.

Too much preasure on the tabs may wear them out, etc.

These boards have lasted 40 years and are still good.

I want to have another 40!

Edited December 27, 2009 by tonyn

[tonyn]

Here's a few pictures showing where I am at right now.

As you can see this is the Solo board.

I have pulled the working Dins and core off of the push button board now

and will be mounting them onto this board now.

I will be able to reuse my IDC cables , which works out nice.

The dins are arranged for second touch, which will be the second set of dins.

But I have the mounts for the first touch, which will be added later.

Those dins will be configured in software for first touch for now.

But the keypress will be all of the way for this, which is for secodn touch.

I wanted to do second touch first for keypress since that is at the end of it.

Making a first tocuh would be just crimping a copper wire in the other set of contacts back some.

I found out that the #6 nuts have tight clearances on top of the dins and cores

(in fact right by one of the midi sockets, there wasn't enough at all).

So I may have to switch over to #4 hardware for that.

I also found that those rear screws stripped the metal threads.

So I'll just drill out the holes with 1/8" bit so they go through the holes.

They will be tightened with nuts and lock washers on the bottom anyway.

Next I will be running the ribbon cables and measuring from the dins to the contact boards and soldering them.