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A commercial SID synth that look damn familiar (seen on MESSE)


stuartm
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Wow. That is RUDE!

TBS (Touched by Sound) = Vicious Bastards!!!

Sharks. Plain and simple.

No Permission, No Dough and No Acknowledgement for TK, Wilba and nILs. And they're lookin' at $20,000 profit. Easy! For 20 of'em. Probably all Fucked up too. Let's not forget R&D costs though, Oh Wait....

and now lil' Jimmy can't find a C64 with a SID chip to build one his self :sad:

Scum Bags

Edited by JRock
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While I do think that TBS' behaviour is completely unprofessional, unethical and just plain wrong - especially after having been talking to them on the phone for hours and having gotten his word that they will not release/sell/etc. anything without prior consent by TK and Wilba - please do not spam their pages, DDOS attack their servers, ask your local biker friends to drop by or do any other stupid stuff of that sort. Feel free to vent your anger about their behaviour whenever you talk/write about TBS/MM though, preferably on public forums.

I agree.

Please don't go here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mode-Machines/178267622200065?sk=wall and post "offensive comments".

In particular, don't "Like" people's "offensive comments".

BTW you have to "Like" Mode Machines in order to "Like" or post "offensive comments" on their wall, so don't bother.

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The owner of Mode Machines replies in facebook:

Michael Thorpe Hello - I don´t think you are getting the point here. We have not offered the unit furthermore we have only showed a possible version of it and we discussed this beforehand with the owner and designer and also are currently talking to them ...

These statements are simply not true!

Some months ago we found a MIDIbox SID on the TBS product page. Nils contacted the company, explained the legal status (during a long phone call) and got the answer that they are not planning to sell the MIDIbox anymore. But it can still be found on their page, and now we saw it at Musikmesse as well.

we discussed this beforehand with the owner and designer

false, they never contacted me.

and also are currently talking to them ...

false, they are currently not talking to us (in distance: Nils had to pro-actively contact them some weeks ago and thought that this topic is clarified).

And I must say that I'm not interested to talk with profiteers with such attitude.

Especially since it seems that they have no experience with the MBSID hardware/software - who should support the customers?

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Well, there are basically four options, if they want to sell this product:

a. Sue them

b. Let them go

c. Convince them to stop before the situation escalates

d. Cooperate and get revenue

a. Not sure how resources and chances are. There should be some motivated lawyers out there tho.

b. Well, that is not really an option, I guess.

c. Worth a try, dunno the attitude of TBS tho. Judging from above post it is not a good one.

d. Well, not sure if that is an option anymore. Because usually, they should have contacted your first and then negotiate a deal.

And not the other way around. Like "Hey we simply build your product now but we are so kind and you can negotiate with us after we set the facts."

Me, an unimportant Noob of course, sees one good thing about a commercial MBSID tho: It would open the possibility for people who do not dare to solder one themselves. (no skills, equipment, time)

But I know there have been discussions about it. And good reasons against it. For instance, as I understand many people contributed to the Midibox Project, so it would be hard to share revenue fairly. And there seems to be a non-profit spirit here, that I, as someone who is really down on capitalism, and who sees this project as another proof that people can make great things happen without capitalistic pressure, really like.

Not that I am asked but I could see the Midibox SID become a cool commercial project if:

- the main makers get a fair revenue

- if the final product does not have the maximum-profit price

- if the real midibox project (do it yourself, people sharing their stuff, helping each other, the whole good vibe that is going on in this forum) continues.

That was my (surely limited) view (as of today).

:hairy:

Edited by Param1
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Me, an unimportant Noob of course, sees one good thing about a commercial MBSID tho: It would open the possibility for people who do not dare to solder one themselves. (no skills, equipment, time)

Since some months we consider to change to the TAPR Noncommercial Hardware License, which would allow everybody to build and sell up to 10 units in any 12 month period on a non-profit basis w/o need for a special permission from our side.

Without going too much into details (please open a new thread if you feel that this needs more discussion, but there will be a topic soon anyhow): this license would explicitly allow a professional or hobbyists to build and sell a MIDIbox to another user if he is only paid for his expenses (w/o profit)

It would also make it less complicated to resell a used MIDIbox, no special permission required from our side as long as the NCL isn't violated.

TBS violated the old license (no commercial use without my permission), and they would also violate the new license (e.g. by renaming the project and not mentioning the copyright holders - also the announced price of 1500 EUR somehow doesn't match with the "non-profit" term).

Btw: for the case that you are interested on a MB6582, check this fleamarket sale by Lucem:

Best Regards, Thorsten.

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Hi guys...

I'm not happy about this or the lost sleep over it. I am sure everyone here who is paying attention feels the same to some degree.

To put to rest any speculation I sold him one set under my typical terms that prohibit commercial resale.

Best regards

Tim

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Definitely a bad move of ModeMachines / TBS. I can't see why this company even bothers, as SID's aren't that easy to come by and even more important, they could have guessed that someone would find out. And bad reputation is something you rarely get rid of... I hope they will come to their senses.

Edited by Flying Panther
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http://www.junodownload.com/plus/2011/04/07/musikmesse-2011-news-another-fine-messe/

First up, for those who believe that the authentic 8-bit sound of “Chuckie Egg†will never be bettered, the ASId 64 is a new synthesizer using as its sound source recovered chips from Commodore 64s (sic). Due to the understandably limited availability of the components, the model will initially be restricted to 100 units, although Mode Machines are also talking to analogue grave-robbers Technology Transplant with a view to cloning the original circuitry. And for Mode Machines’ next trick, the consciousness-altering LSD (Little Sound Device) offers 3-oscillator digital synthesis from a box little bigger than a cigarette packet that features 4 rotary knobs and,er, that’s it. It delivers either monophonic sound or can be chained for your polyphonic pleasure.

Have also emailed Matrix:

Hello Matrix

Not sure if you are aware of this, but the company "Mode Machines" has just demo'd a synth at MESSE which blatantly rips of the MIDIBox MB-6582 SID synth. The unit is also listed for sale on their website:

http://www.touched-by-sound.com/de/Keyboards-34779-Mode_Machines_aSID64.html

It is the ASID-SIXTY FOUR and much of the discussion can be found at:

I hope you would agree that plagiarism of this nature is wholly unacceptable, even moreso as the project is a community-based open-sourced one.

Any posts on your blog drawing attention to this issue would be appreciated.

Thanks

Andy (latigid on)

Edit:

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2011/04/mode-machines-acid-64-in-violation-of.html

Edited by latigid on
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regarding 'customer support' and build- and kit quality of technology transplant / mode machines related products there's a lot of information over at the adafruit forums.

i also think spamming and the like would rather look like helpless attempts to give some bad feelings back to the sender, which won't cause as much effort than doing their own r&d to be able to offer a true, honest, interesting product, instead of just making quick cash with the creative work AND PROPERTY of others.

in this case it should be possible to take more appropriate measures.

actually i don't quite get it why people really decide to spend hundreds of bucks for this kind of kits/builds while there are really trustworthy sources available (like willzyx and x0xsh0p). they're not even cheaper.

while these are sold we all know that there WILL be people who are willing to buy pirate MB6582, also for 1495€, even a ROLLIN MOSS base board, because they have the dough and can't be bothered to diy.

speaking of dough that's really what makes the midibox so friendly and positve: it's not about cash. if TK wanted to make just cash, i'm sure he would have been able to start a business and make it.

instead he creates a community, which none of the fakers do, and provides really awesome projects for free private use. that means for EVERYONE, regardless of the $.

and there are other people acting in the same spirit and also provide THEIR designs and work (and lifetime that they could also use to actually make money if this was so important).

i'm glad that all these guys keep on doing this kind of work, there wouldn't be any MB6582, sammich XX, kaffeSEQ, seppoman VCF/VCA etc etc, or even the mbhp platform itself, in this form, if it had been just for dough.

but if ripping them off becomes acceptable (salonfähig) that's frustrating and it might change their minds, who knows.

so, don't buy fakes from people who don't know whether 'their new products' have 1V/oct response or not (ridiculously enough), get your REAL 6582 from smash and free help from the community and just try it! it's easier than one would think!

btw i'm glad Wilba cleaned the whole 6582A stocks and spread them all over the world! imagine the potential of 5000 ASIds versus a planned 100 of them!

Edited by rosch
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Matrixsynth blog post title > ASID not ACID methinks. It also looks like TBS have removed the offending item from their site, at last. I hope the Karma police get them.....

Edited by toadstool
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I am involved in the Blender (www.blender.org) community, and stuff like this happens fairly often.

People take the source, change any mention of blender in the program and change it into some other bit of software and sell it. Blender is GPL though, so this is entirely legal. Where they go wrong is by using art to advertise the software, with out permission from the artist, and claiming it was made using the renamed software, which it wasnt. so the images get taken down, they have nothing to advertise with, and after a few weeks the software disappears and everything returns to normal.

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  • 7 months later...

OMG, that's one fugly xox/CBM hybrid design! Cheesuz, get that gfx out of this page... This is the living embodiment of next level aesthetically challenged.

Can't bear to watch it any more. I'd kill myself if I designed something like that and put it out to public sale. Now where's that barfing smily, La Kotze? :no:

Good thing there's still time to collect myself before dinner.

Edit: Shouldn't normally have reacted that strongly. Had this been home-made it would have been quite OK, but the combo of being a total rip-off of a labor of love you love and respect, plus looking like that made me temporarily lose my will to live.

Edited by jojjelito
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