Guest timofer Posted November 13, 2002 Report Share Posted November 13, 2002 Hey, I found this article quite usefull, the method described in it is pretty much like the press-n-peel but a lot cheaper ;)http://www.pablin.com.ar/electron/trucos/placaci/index.htmAlso some good tips for the non experienced are:* Never use steam when you are ironing the board* Don't move the iron just let it sit firmly and do not apply too much pressure.* Laser prints work best but a regular photocopy does the job.Regards,Emanuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jidis Posted November 14, 2002 Report Share Posted November 14, 2002 Emanuel,I use that technique here with good results, but I was afraid to do my MB64 board, so I sent it off. The text I learned most of it from was here:http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htmIt may have a bit more detail to it, if you're interested. The JetPrint paper they mention wasn't hard to find. There's probably a bunch that will work. One catch I did find, was the toner. On my first try, I ran my copies and some of the paper up to a local Kinkos (print shop) to be printed onto the photo paper. They looked fine, but the image barely came off the paper when I heated it. I ended up with this fuzzy, useless transfer, which wasn't dark enough to block the etchant. Just out of curiosity, I took my next one to my father's work, and had them print it from a standard copy machine, onto my photo paper, and it was perfect! The image peeled neatly off of the paper after just a minute or two in the water. With practice, I was able to get nice clean lines and readable text labels. It may be worth checking a different machine, if your results are discouraging.The ironing and etching procedures were the ones which required the practice. I've done a couple small amps, and am going to try to start on a board for an EPROM/Atmel/PIC programmer tomorrow (the board layout is frightening). - take care,George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Hurlock Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 If you want some real shiny paper then get some self adhesive paper and remove the sticky sheet.Print onto the shiny side of the backing paper.I got best results by using masking tape over the whole paper when ironing. The softness of the masking tape makes for a nice pressure all over. makes up for any undulations.I let my board cool naturally. When using the self adhesive backing the paper seperates itself from the board. I have never tried to cool the board and paper in water.Laser worked best. try to get one with least amount of turns in ejecting as the toner really comes off the backing easy.I must pay homage to LO for the details he passed to me regarding this process. ;) ;)RegardsIan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 Using this method it's really hard to do boards as fine as the MBHP boards, which often have traces running between IC pins.What happens is that the toner tends to spread a bit when you apply pressure from the iron. It makes the tracks just a little bit wider -- enough to cause problems.Also watch for little pinholes, you really do need to dab with a permanent marker prior to etching.I use this method a lot, however, and have generally had very good results, but I'm re-laying out some boards so that I can continue to use this method to make some MBHP stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest psytron Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Using this method it's really hard to do boards as fine as the MBHP boards, which often have traces running between IC pins. listen to ian hurlock and use masking tape over the side you are going to iron.i have used this method a few times without the masking tape and the images can blur with only a little too much pressure.i have not used the backing paper from stickers but the masking tape is a [glow=red,2,300]BIG[/glow] advantage and makes for a board that does not need tidying up b4 you etch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uclaros Posted July 4, 2003 Report Share Posted July 4, 2003 Could someone describe what kind of tape exactly should be used? I guess not the plastic one used for electronics because it will melt. So , the one that's like paper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest psytron Posted July 14, 2003 Report Share Posted July 14, 2003 the tapeused is "maskin tape" and is called the same in all eng speaking countries i think. it is a sort of paper tape light yellow in colour (usualy) check in harware stores and esp painting places (will be more e4xpencive here tho)...goodluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Da5id Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 Hey, I got all excited to try the method using the adhesived-back paper backing, but as I went to peel the paper to free the backing, I realized the backing was slit diagonally and I wasn't left with a sheet I could feed into the printer.So what type or brand or whatever of adhesive paper are you using?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LO Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 Avery (I think its called) is the brand I usedShould be plenty of other brands around thoughLO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Da5id Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 Humm, I have Avery as well... Guess I'll just have to hunt around a bit more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Da5id Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Well, I found some of the right stuff. Avery adrress labels, actually :)And I am VERY pleased with the results!So very much faster!I just designed, printed, ironed and etched a small board in about an hour and a half, and the first hour was wrestling with Eagle!Woohoo!The adhesive-backing method just trimmed several hours off of my boardmaking time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 and taky back plastic is MUCH cheaper than pnp blue :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Hurlock Posted September 19, 2003 Report Share Posted September 19, 2003 Good for you DA5ID :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Da5id Posted September 19, 2003 Report Share Posted September 19, 2003 What my previous post didn't mention is that I cheched the "mirror" box in Eagle's print dialogue when I shouldn't have, and didn't discover it until I had already drilled all the holes. So I had to start over :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fx3_hdrive Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 hi guysi wonder what princip does it use?toner in not resistant to echant? or is?can u draw the same with a permanent marker and it will work?it wont be as neat but ?thaknx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arumblack Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 You can use a sharpie.... but i wouldn't try it on theese designs. IC pins need to be perfectly aligned.I had minimal succes with the above methods, though it got better everytime, i think it takes a lot of practice.I read somewhere recently about sending the board and toner transfer paper through a laminator instead of using an iron, supposed to be more even pressure. Apparently there are laminators made specifically for this purpose. i may try one day, with a cheap laminator, but i'm not shelling out a bunch of money.( if it doesnt work well, i can always have luggage tags...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashtv Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 hi guysi wonder what princip does it use?toner in not resistant to echant? or is?The best way to think about toner is that it's -like- powdered plastic while still in the printer, and it's melted (fused) to the paper. The toner transfer process is simply re-melting the toner again so that it sticks to the copper. ;)The Ferric Chloride only attacks metal (but will stain anything, including porcelain under water!), so the transferred pattern is relatively safe when in the etchant.When I do single boards, or don't have enough etching to do to justify filling an etch tank, I do the normal transfer, then use toner reactive foil (usually used to make certificates w/laser printer) fused on to the resist, to make the resist a lot stronger. That allows me to pour a tiny amount of etchant into a tray, then use a sponge to "rub etch". This is the most messy method, you MUST use gloves to do this. But I can etch a board this way in half the time it takes to run it in the tank, use almost no etchant, etc.See more about this method at: http://www.pulsar.gs/1_tts/c_pcb/new_tricks/all_writeups_support/technique_contact_etch.htmlPulsar also sells large rolls of toner reactive foil here:http://www.pulsar.gs/5_online_store_no_frames/1_tts_store/c_pcb/master_PCB_listing.html#Anchor-21683 (this is the cheapest way I know of to buy this stuff!, it's a large roll)Have fun!SmashTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arumblack Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Smash:Ever tried that laminator idea?And who does the boards you sell, do they do small runs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladybug Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 did someone tried using a "transparancy" paper ?when printing on those, it seems the ink doesnt "soak" into it like an ordinary paper - only because it is made of plastic !so maybe it is easier to transfer the image with it ?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest psytron Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 i dont think the tranceparencies like heat i have seen what happens what happens when they are in a photocopyer at uni. hehe quite a mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 i used injet transparcies on a 50 quid laser i got and it worked just fine - just attach to a paper backing sheet and print on the shiny side. Then iron on like PNP....:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arumblack Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 they do sell "LASER" transperencies too, they shouldn't melt in your laser printer or photocopier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synapsys Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 I use the "Laser" transparency sheets in my laser printer all the time without heat problems. I have tried the "iron on" technique a few times with fair results on simple boards. However, I invested a few bucks in equipment and now used photographic techniques and get excellant repeatable results. The method is quite simple. You print a positive image of the PCB layout on the transparency and place it on a pre-sensitised blank PCB and hold it tight to the board using a piece of glass. Then the board is exposed with an ultra-violet fluorescent light for 5 minutes. Once exposed the board is placed in the developer and in seconds the exposed portion of the resist dissolves away leaving the unexposed portion on the board. The board can then be etched in the normal fashion. I use MG Chemicals products found here http://www.mgchemicals.comUsing this technique I can easily produce board with 15 mil (0.38 mm) traces on a 25 mil (0.64 mm) grid and can run traces between IC pads spaced 100 mil (2.54 mm) apart.Although this method is a bit more expensive than others it reliably produces extremely high quality boards.Hope this info is useful.... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arumblack Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 I am about to make the switch to this method, have been planning to since my first not so great attempts with the transfer method.( I did get some usable boards, but even they could be better). Will this work with Inkjet transperencies? or shou;d i just get a cheap laser at an auction or something. the main reason i havent got one so far is that the toner would cost me more than the printer it seems. not so bad if i use it only for pcb's i guess.... how many sheets do you get from a toner cart before it dies?I have read that the photographic process is the way to go, if you can afford the equiptment, have the space to do it, and can stand some more chemicals.Thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest psytron Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 i have a laserjet from hp.toner will last you for ever if you only use it for pcbs.i will give the LASER tranceparencies a go. perhaps these are reusable (for a while).i have a laminator as well so i will give this method a go as well.keep you posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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