TK. Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Here are some preliminary versions of MIDIbox MF and MIDIbox16E which can be used by everybody who already own one (or more) core module(s) in order to test the Logic Control Emulation mode. Also MIDIbox64 users can try the MB16E firmware to check if their host software regognizes the faked LC unit. Files: http://www.ucapps.de/midibox16e/midibox16e_v1004pre1.hex.zip http://www.ucapps.de/midibox_mf/midibox_mf_v1000pre1.hex.zip http://www.ucapps.de/midibox/mk_syx.zipthe mk_syx archive contains two new sample initialization files midibox16e_lc.ini and midibox16e_mf_lc.ini --- just read the comments in these files.When you upload the firmware, the MIDIbox will *not* answer to LC queries from the host software until the LC Emulation ID has been set (this is done in the .ini file...).ID 10 stands for "Logic Control", ID 11 for "Logic Control XT". For Mackie Control emulation (-> Cubase SX users...) possibly another ID is required, but I cannot try it by myself; inputs are welcome!Checked features (with 2 core modules):emulation of 8 motorfaders workingemulation of 8 V-pots, external controller and jog wheel working128 buttons working - all specified commands in the LC spec can be triggered128 LEDs working - the MIDIbox toggles the LEDs like specifiedLCD working (ok, I only tested a 2*40 chars display) - you see the selected tracks, the track names, the fader and v-pot values, fx settings... the LCD-messages are sent by the host softwareLED-Rings not supported yet (but will work with the final release)Note that the SysEx dump structure has been completely changed. By now, 8 internal banks instead of 6 are available, and up to 64 buttons and 64 LEDs can be connected to the core module. Together with a BankStick, 8*8 = 64 banks can be used :)The current version of vmidibox16e is *not* compatible with the new firmwares. Serge will adapt the editor in the next days. In the meantime you have to use the mk_syx.pl script (perl must be installed) to generate a .syx file, or you have to use the default files until then. The .syx files can be uploaded with MIDI-OX or vsysexboxOther new features: MB16E knows a new encoder mode LCEMU (for what damned thing should this be useful? ;-)) and MB16E/MBMF can handle with touch sensors. The touch sensitivity can be adjusted in a special submenu or in the .ini file. Connection diagram for the DIN module can be found here: http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_din_touchsensors.pdf , a schematic will follow soon.Btw.: capacitive touch sensors (the cheapest way to realize a button function) are no dedicated motorfader features - in fact you could misuse 64 thumbtacks as button-replacement :)Have fun! :)I hope that Cubase SX users don't need an additional driver for MC emulation.Best Regards, Thorsten.P.S.: does anybody know a distributor for 2*55 character displays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 whhoooo!! ;Dstill got a lot of q's on this and the box i'm doin, but in the meantime, this place in Japan does custom LCD's:http://www.okaya.com/oeachart.htmlmebbe if a group-buy type thing is done the price could be resonable - tho i doubt it...best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris_FX_freak Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Some hints please ???up to 64 buttons and 64 LEDs can be connected to the core moduleIs that possible with current DIN DOUT or a new version comming soon?Thanx again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 yes, u need 2 doutx4 - each one gives 32 leds, likewise with the dinx4...See these 2 diagrams for the 16E and MF: http://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_midibox16e.gifhttp://www.ucapps.de/mbhp/mbhp_midibox_mf.gifThus, with these two chained u get 128 buttons and leds, 16 encoders, 8 motorfaders, 16 led rings and a whole lotta fun..;)HTH... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Thorsten...One quick Q b4 i post the updated diagram for my box:Will encoders with inbuilt buttons be treated just like the v-pots on the LC? So they preform the exact same function as described in the LC manual...For instanceI'm basically workin out which buttons/LEDs will be connected to the 16E core and preform the LC functions and which buttons/LEDSs will be connected to the MB64 core and preform the functions triggered from that f/w...Best...Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 5, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Encoders with inbuilt buttons are coming with 5 pins: 3 for the encoders, 2 for the button function. I see no difficulties - the buttons have to be assigned on the following way: [BUTTONS] # Following Button events are documented in the logic control user # manual, chapter 13 "Control Surface Layout and IDs" # LC event: "select buttons" for the V-Pot section 1 = 90 20 7F @OnOff # select function of V-Pot 1 2 = 90 21 7F @OnOff # select function of V-Pot 2 3 = 90 22 7F @OnOff # select function of V-Pot 3 4 = 90 23 7F @OnOff # select function of V-Pot 4 5 = 90 24 7F @OnOff # select function of V-Pot 5 6 = 90 25 7F @OnOff # select function of V-Pot 6 7 = 90 26 7F @OnOff # select function of V-Pot 7 8 = 90 27 7F @OnOff # select function of V-Pot 8 Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 great, thanks again T...!didnt think to look in the ini file's for info as i havn't done anything with the PICs yet, but they have cleared up a lot regarding control and implementation...:)another few q's to clear up...;128 buttons working - all specified commands in the LC spec can be triggered In the midibox16e_lc.ini file I only see button support for the following LC functions:# LC event: "select buttons" for the V-Pot section# LC event: F1-F8 buttons# LC events: special functions# Navigation buttons, only available as MIDI triggers when no display is connected or NAVIGATION_BUTTONS is disabled - is this reffering to the transports buttons on the LC?# Button 25-64 for the button extension if 0xff, button is disabled (this is the default) - what is the button extension? Are these the buttons where u can assign the rest of the LC controls...? like the Assignment buttons, Display buttons, Global View buttons, Zoom control buttons etc...If that's the case then it's all good :) if not, what am i missing...? Nearly there...;)Best...Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 6, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Ok, I see - the example file isn't perfect ;-) I didn't assign all button functions to my physical MB16E, since my own version has only 8 buttons (the 4 navigation buttons, and four MIDI triggers; in the configuration file Button number 17-24). However, all other button inputs are functional when I temporary connect two DINX4 modules, but since my desk is currently full of instruments, I had to replace everything which needs too much place ;-)In the next days I will start to build a more compact prototype which allows me to use the LC emulation more on a more ergonomic way - and with much more buttons! :)The navigation buttons are normaly used for the MB menu navigation, but you can disable it in LC emulation mode and use the buttons as normal MIDI triggers.Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 thanks for clearing that up... :)full steam ahead then...;) i'll get my plans drawn up and posted!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perka Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Hi, I have some thougths on the LCD display.It's probably hard to get a 2x55 display, so maybe you could connect 2 displays?In pictures i'we seen, the information on the Mackie Control is displayed like this.(Am I right?)(Picture 1 in link)(In blocks of 2x6 characters)If this is how it's displayed, would it be possible to connect one 2x40 display and one 2x20 display like this?(Black characters unused)(Picture 2 in link)http://www.geocities.com/perkaby/Index.htmlJust a thougth!/Pär Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 Hi Par...I thought about that idea too, i'm not sure how it'd be implemented tho... a f/w tweak i guess...The other thing that made me wonder was mebbe you can scroll across lines - using the v-pots (encoders) as described in the LC manual... I've searched and seen no 2x55 LCDs, it must be custom made specially for the LC/MC. The only other option would be 4 or 2x80 which is mebbe abit overkill...!! ;DBest...Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perka Posted December 6, 2002 Report Share Posted December 6, 2002 So there is 2x80 displays?That could work. Maybe it would be possible to show the timcode in the unused space?Or something else?/P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 7, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2002 Two displays can be attached to the LCD bus of core module without problems, just only the E (enable) signal has to be inverted in order to allow a proper addressing --- but IMHO the result would look stupid. :-/However, I searched on the web but haven't found a suitable display. So I thought about alternative solutions - how about a graphical LCD? A 320x80 LCD like known from some synthesizers would be the best, because it would allow to display 5x7 pixel characters. But it seems that such displays are vanished from the stocks of the main distributors. A 240x64 could also do the job - up to 48 characters can be displayed on one line, that means, 7 characters less than the LC (the spaces between the tracknames could be left out...). The big advantage: the LED-rings could be replaced by nice pixel-maps on the screen, the MTC and some more values could be displayed due to the available space - this means less effort for constructing the enclosureBest Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 7, 2002 Report Share Posted December 7, 2002 ;D ;D ;D ;DWell, damn if that's possible then great!!Would this be possible to do with the current 16E f/w? or are you waiting for the NG rollout to implement this...?Best...Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perka Posted December 7, 2002 Report Share Posted December 7, 2002 You always got something up your sleeve Thorsten! ;-)That looks like a great idea!/Pär Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 8, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Germans say "Not macht erfinderisch" (if you really desire for a solution, you will make the best inventions ;-))The software handler for the graphic LCD requires some memory to save the bitmaps and characters, I will try to integrate this into the MIDImon firmware since it already has some free space for such extensions. Yes, the MIDIbox NG will also support graphic displays in form of a PlugInBest Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 fantastic...;)So, that means even tho the extention handler for the graphics LCD would be on the core runnin the MIDIMon f/w, it would still be be displayed and represented correctly on the LCD connected to the 16E core runnin the LC f/w...? So it's like the LCD can display info from other core's, even tho it's connected to one...Best...Dan (in MB bliss - even tho it aint built, and i've parts everywhere!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 also, what graphic LCD's should we be looking at...? As in the controller it uses. Does the HD44780 allow for a 240x64 graphic display...?Cheers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris_FX_freak Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Thorsten you are doing great keep on bringing new ideas.I must say I am little dissapointed of leaving the idea of LCD ASCI and going to graphic LCD. My point is that graphic lcds are not that bright and it will be way harder to recognise the characters displayed in the screen from a distance. (I admit I have minor problem with my vision :) )Ok to the point someone sayed he found an LCD 2X80 where? and how much?And is it possible with the current driver 2X40 to drive the 2X80 LCD.Best.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris_FX_freak Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 I dont think there is a 2x80 or anything greater than 4X40 I cant find any so the graphic LCD seems the best approach.Best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2k Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 There are 2 x 80's about (see link below), tho the 4 x 80 seems more readily available...http://www.bipom.com/lcdselect.htmJust google this kinda stuff, always turns up results...;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK. Posted December 10, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2002 Dimitris: I will support a 40x2 LCD anyhow, but this solution isn't the best, since 15 characters have to be removed. :-/The graphical LCD should contain a ks0107b / ks0108b controller. Thats a very common chip for cheap displays. It cannot handle with characters by itself; the command set supports "set address" and "write 8-pixel" and thats all. However, I will get my display end of week and will check the performance :)Best Regards, Thorsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezkall Posted December 10, 2002 Report Share Posted December 10, 2002 I have an idea which might be very far-fetched but here goes:I'd really like to add small, 5-char, displays on my MB, for example, next to encoders or faders. It would display the actual value of the encoder/fader, possibly even converted to dB values (for example) instead of displaying just CC values.Is this possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted December 10, 2002 Report Share Posted December 10, 2002 Hi guys,I followed a link on one of the threads to SAC2k website and saw a picture of their display implementation on their controller. They were using 3 40x2 displays. What caught my eye were the 40x2 displays each on a group of 4 faders. So that got me thinking of another alternative of using 2 displays that wont look too stupid :-). Each 40x2 display services 4 faders which can display 10 characters per fader. In each Midibox LC emulator there would be 2 cores (MB16E+MBMF), so there is possibility of each core to its own 40x2 or 1 core drives 2 40x2 displays or using the midimon. I guess the only considerations against the Graphic LCD alternative would be the cost of 2 40x2 displays and the complexity of writing the display handling software if it is possible at all. What do you think T.Klose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ynot Posted December 10, 2002 Report Share Posted December 10, 2002 HI!I've been monitoring the success story of the Midibox for over a year. Thorsten's doing a great job!!!Q:I found a section in the Logic Control manual that talks about "Metering". Could MB be built with good old fashioned led bars?Best Regards,Y ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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